Mainsheet traveler for skiff

[mdevour]

Greetings,

Well, I’ve got several ways to choose from to attach headstay and shrouds to the hull of our Weekend Skiff (http://www.eskimo.com/~mdevour/boatproject.html). Thanks to all the experts (and non-experts :D ) for chiming in to answer my questions.

Here I am, building my first boat and trying to learn enough to create a sail plan from scratch to make a gaff rigged sloop out of this little hull. I’ve read a ton of stuff and learned enough to answer many of my own questions, yet there are still big areas of building that I have not seen covered anywhere. I've got three books that talk at length about lofting a hull, but not one that discusses in detail mounting a pad-eye!!

One guess is that most of the time the builder is smart enough to be working from an established design, rather than making it up as he goes along. I know I’m responsible for that particular bit of idiocy. tongue.gif

Most of what I have found comes from pictures and descriptions of other people’s boats and the few sets of plans I’ve seen. Is that the only place this knowledge exists?

Right now I want to ask some questions about hull fittings for the main and headsail sheets. I guess I’d also like to hear about where you’ve come by the knowledge you’re sharing as you answer them. Any resources you can point me toward would be helpful. Thank you.

Mike

On to my questions…

[ 03-31-2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: M. G. Devour ]

[mdevour]

The traveler:

On my plan, as it stands, I will have a short line from quarter to quarter for a traveler. The sheet will attach to the aft end of the boom, reave aft-to-fore through a block on the traveler, back to a single block hanging from a strop on the boom, run forward along the boom to another block, and down into the cockpit to a block and cleat on a swivel.

The traveler block I have is actually two blocks whose frames are linked at right angles, so one rides on the traveler while the other carries the sheet. Clever!

I understand from Leather’s book about cheek blocks and strops for the boom attachments. One of you has warned me to watch for boom flexing due to the mid-boom sheet block and given some steps to take to deal with that. I’ll work these things out as I get further along.

First question: Mounting the traveler line. I’ve seen folks drill a hole through each quarter knee and tie a stop knot at each end. That seems simple and effective. How about other methods?

I’d like to be able to remove the traveler when the mast is unstepped or the boat is just going to be rowed. Would I want something more like an eye-strap or padeye, bolted through each quarter knee? The pieces I’m thinking about are nicely cast bronze eye-straps, the smallest of which seem more than adequate for this spot.

It would be easiest to mount the eyestraps parallel with the wales. Is the side-load acceptable, given the mainsail is only 75 square feet and each eye will be handling about a quarter of the sheet load?

Mike

[TomRobb]

Little boat, little sail - loads not all that great. I'm guessing that you're over-thinking this whole project. That's ok unless it paralyzes you into inaction. You can probably guess how I know that. :rolleyes:
If you want to remove the traveler easily, attach it with snap hooks of some sort. They'll only flop around on the deck and dent it up a little from time to time.
Simplificate and add lightness. Do you really need a traveler, stays, a gaggle of expensive blocks, etc?
I thought the idea of this boat was simpliciy.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

I tend to agree with Tom. I think the idea of a traveller / horse with the mainsheet you describe is overkill for a sail this size.

My suggestion would be to use a double-ended mainsheet, using a single block mounted on each quarter-knee (using a pad-eye or a saddle,) and another single block at the end of the boom. Reeve the sheet from the forward side of one of the quarter-blocks aft through the block, up to the block on the boom, then forward through the other quasrter-block. (Put a stopper knot on each end.) This gives a 2:1 purchase, which is quite satisfactory up to at least 100 sq ft.

Mike

[mdevour]

Originally posted by TomRobb:
Little boat, little sail - loads not all that great. I'm guessing that you're over-thinking this whole project. That's ok unless it paralyzes you into inaction.Yes, I tend to over-think this stuff. I've had to dump so much unrelated information into my brain to try to answer my many questions that it is hard to sort out what's applicable and what's not.

With the input of the people here I've been able to get moving again on the project, so I'd have to say the process is causing just the opposite of paralysis. smile.gif


Simplificate and add lightness. Do you really need a traveler, stays, a gaggle of expensive blocks, etc? I'm trying! It just doesn't look like it.

If I chose to, I could rig a loose footed spritsail whose rigging amounts to snotter and sheet.

I'm trying to build a sloop because I'd enjoy the extra functionality and flexibility. I'm using a gaff main because the shorter mast fits in the boat for transport, and because I like the looks of it!

If I had a proven plan to work from there would be fewer questions. That fact I'm designing it from scratch for this boat, without any prior experience, means I have a greater risk of problems or outright failure -- and have to climb a steeper learning curve. I accept the responsibility for that.

If and when the bugs are worked out and the rig has proven itself on this hull others may be able learn from my experience. If not, they can learn from that too.


I thought the idea of this boat was simpliciy.I think it was Einstein that said that, "Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler." I'm no Einstein, that's for sure! :D

Thanks,

Mike

[mdevour]

Originally posted by Wooden Boat Fittings:
My suggestion would be to use a double-ended mainsheet, using a single block mounted on each quarter-knee ... and another single block at the end of the boom. ... This gives a 2:1 purchase, which is quite satisfactory up to at least 100 sq ft.Thanks, Mike. I rigged this up yesterday while we were at the school working. It certainly is simple and should be plenty strong enough.

I've seen the idea in several books, but I don't have any experience with it. Where do you put the cleats for the sheet-ends? Exactly how do you handle the line while tacking?

The only boats I've sailed all have a block and cam-cleat in the middle of the cockpit ahead of the helmsman. If you want to you can hold it in your hand. If you want to cleat it, it's right there. I don't know how this one works.

Thanks,

Mike

[Paul H. Morris]

Hi - One of the boats I sail (and built) is the Bolger/Payson Bobcat. Great little boat, great fun, now 13 years old.
In their traveler design, we used a piece of 1/4" dacron line through the deck in each of the stern corners with the double dingy block you describe permanently captured on the traverer line. When you thread your main sheet, you thread through the second half of the bouble block then finish as you described the block on a strop then to mid boom and down. Works great. This allows you to balance your weight better in the boat ( more to mid-ships) so it isn't dragging by the stern and in poor trim.
On gaff rigs, the aft end of the boom is many times several feet beyond the stern, and this 3 point attachment provides good support for a rather light boom especially going down wind on a nice but now windy afternoon.
The 1/4" ply deck is reinforced with a 6" sq. piece of 1/4" ply on the underside and a 4" sq. piece on top with beveled edges. The traverer rope goes through the center of each of these now 3/4" thick areas. Paul at Cedar Tree Boat Shop

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

I'd just cleat off inside the gunwale a foot or two forward of the quarter-blocks, Mike. Use jam cleats. Belay one side a few feet from the end, and hold the other end. If you're on, say, starboard tack, have the port end cleated off and hold the starboard end. As you change tack, you can free one end and belay the other. (Don't have both ends belayed at the same time.) It's not essential to do this at each change of tack necessarily, it really depends on whether you need to hike out or not.

Here's a photo of Aileen Louis'a set-up. She's in the process of changing from port to starboard tack, and the mainsheet ends haven't yet been changed over.

Mike

http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au./public/mainsheet.jpg
.

[ 04-03-2003, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Wooden Boat Fittings ]

[mdevour]

Hi Paul,


Originally posted by Paul H. Morris:
One of the boats I sail (and built) is the Bolger/Payson Bobcat ... we used a piece of 1/4" dacron line through the deck in each of the stern corners ... then finish as you described to the block on a strop then to mid boom and down. Works great. This allows you to balance your weight better in the boat ...
I think pretty much any position in this boat will be within reach of the cleats! But that does remind me to think about weight and trim.

Yeah, I've seen this arrangement on several small boat designs and people seem pretty happy with it. The rope traveler is suggested by the designers, though they don't take the aft end of the sheet back up to the boom, but just have a block at the end riding on the traveler. The 2:1 advantage certainly ought to be enough, and saves an extra fifteen feet o' rope to be sitting on!


... this 3 point attachment provides good support for a rather light boom especially going down wind on a nice but now windy afternoon.
That's another way of looking at it! The concern was raised earlier that, close hauled, the mid-boom block would tend to warp the boom and hurt the sail shape. I 'spect neither effect is crucial at the level of performance I need to think about. <sigh>

What I'm aiming for is a rig that, overall, can handle those freshening conditions safely. That's why I'm biased towards a stayed mast and overbuilding just a bit. I need help from the folks here to keep me from, ahem, going overboard. tongue.gif

Thank you, Paul!

Mike

[mdevour]

Hi Mike,


Originally posted by Wooden Boat Fittings:
I'd just cleat off inside the gunwale a foot or forward of the quarter-blocks ... [using] jam cleats. Belay one side a few feet from the end, and hold the other end.That helps me a lot. I hadn't thought of jam cleats. That makes it a whole lot more sensible.

I imagine it becomes second nature to transfer the sheet hand-to-hand at the tiller, or to pop the weather sheet into the cleat with your aft-ward hand...


Here's a photo of Aileen Louis'a Hmmmmm, pretty! smile.gif

What I have here are two perfectly good approaches that can each be tried without major modifications to the boat. Thanks!

Be well sir,

Mike