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Osborne Russell
07-22-2010, 11:04 PM
When you tire of distracting yourself with clown shows, see "Manufactured Landscapes" and check out what's actually happening to the world.

http://www.edwardburtynsky.com

A planned community, ha ha. They stand in formation before the shift starts and do that Mao self-criticism thing ("yesterday I scratched my itchy pubes and damaged productivity") which is exactly where all our "management science" is leading, ha ha. "Jobs, jobs, jobs! Government should be run like a business!"

Moron robots. God forgive you, I won't.

TimH
07-22-2010, 11:37 PM
China owns you.

They are winning the third world war and we dont even realize there is a war.

Osborne Russell
07-22-2010, 11:41 PM
It's more efficient if everyone wears a yellow plastic windbreaker with an insignia. Parade rest to receive work group profit solidarity reinforcement.

http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/WORKS/China/Large_Images_Book/CHNA_MAN_18_05.jpg

Where else has technology allowed so many to live on so little? Probably the greenest city on earth, if you can't see past the end of your nose. Check my tiny green footprint, yo.

Conserve away, dumb asses, this is where it leads.


Under Mao Zedong’s government, from 1949 for nearly three decades, population growth was encouraged as it was considered an asset to long-term development. The population of China in 1950 was 550 million. Today it stands at 1.3 billion. In 1952, urban dwellers numbered 72 million. By 2003 that number rose to almost 524 million people.10 Recent estimates indicate that because of economic development and the resulting annexation of outlying rural areas, China’s urban populace will, over the next 40 years, increase dramatically to over one billion city dwellers—the equivalent of the combined population of today’s North and South American continents as well as the entire European Union.

http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/

(emphasis added)



http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/WORKS/China/Large_Images_Book/CHNA_MAN_02_04.jpg

coelacanth2
07-23-2010, 12:23 AM
Make Room! Make Room! (kudos to the forumite who knows the author of the novel, the movie adaptation, the product, and the star)

purri
07-23-2010, 12:37 AM
In the beginning there was Taylorism and Taylor saw that it was good and Ford carried the message on high to the masses. Not a Chinese phenomenon (worth a google)

purri
07-23-2010, 12:39 AM
Make Room! Make Room! (kudos to the forumite who knows the author of the novel, the movie adaptation, the product, and the star)

Film "Soylent Green", Author forgotten, product human beans, Stars Edward G Robinson (his last) and Chuck Connors.

willmarsh3
07-23-2010, 10:00 AM
That website's a keeper for its photography. Thanks for posting.

Hal Forsen
07-23-2010, 10:00 AM
How about Mr. Swift's idea?


I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ... http://www.art-bin.com/bilder/onepixred.gif

OconeePirate
07-23-2010, 11:45 AM
Weird... replace the yellow with blue and that first picture there looks like Wal-Mart.

Osborne Russell
07-23-2010, 04:17 PM
China owns you.

They are winning the third world war and we dont even realize there is a war.

Yeah, but a weird kind of war. I'm thinking along the lines of two one-armed guys handcuffed to each other, each madly trying to saw his own arm off first so he can get to the gun before the other guy. IOW not much difference between winning and losing.

Maybe by the time of the final showdown the balance will be tipped in favor of the nation that has resources ravaged from another planet, while the other scours the ravaged earth in vain for the last ounce of material.

There's always another planet because there's always hope.

Osborne Russell
07-23-2010, 04:19 PM
That website's a keeper for its photography. Thanks for posting.

Yeh man. Look on the Sundance Channel site, the movie will repeat I think -- "Manufactured Landscapes". Also good shots of the ship breaking yards in Sri Lanka.

Osborne Russell
07-23-2010, 04:20 PM
Weird... replace the yellow with blue and that first picture there looks like Wal-Mart.

Except the people are much too skinny.

Osborne Russell
07-23-2010, 04:23 PM
p.s. the name of the second picture is "Shift Change" which is what is depicted. OMG

OconeePirate
07-23-2010, 06:02 PM
p.s. the name of the second picture is "Shift Change" which is what is depicted. OMG

Anyone else watch Futurama? Reminds me of the one where they go to the robot planet. Every hour, on the hour all the robots go zooming around, 1 minute later the streets are empty again.

L.W. Baxter
07-23-2010, 06:26 PM
I'm not unnerved, scandalized, or surprised by any of those photos. They don't show me anything I didn't know about the world. The photographer has an obvious political slant that blunts any possible artfulness. Brian W's pictures of Afghanistan are way more interesting.

As far as shuddering at the vision of factory working standing in formation? (Oh the horror!) Try 30 million+ dying of starvation. That and worse may well be the alternative.

Osborne Russell
07-23-2010, 08:31 PM
The photographer has an obvious political slant that blunts any possible artfulness.

What political slant?


As far as shuddering at the vision of factory working standing in formation? (Oh the horror!) Try 30 million+ dying of starvation. That and worse may well be the alternative.

A false dichotomy of epic proportions.

You better hope that technology can cure the cognitive dissonance between social responsibility and reproduction because something's got to give and I take it you would rather it be the earth. Is that your political slant?

epoxyboy
07-23-2010, 09:50 PM
It's more efficient if everyone wears a yellow plastic windbreaker with an insignia. Parade rest to receive work group profit solidarity reinforcement.
Where else has technology allowed so many to live on so little? Probably the greenest city on earth, if you can't see past the end of your nose. Check my tiny green footprint, yo.
Conserve away, dumb asses, this is where it leads.



I spent a couple of weeks there last year - more bicycles and electric scooters than you can throw a stick at, lots of people living close to where they work and very good public transport - and you dont see too many morbidly obese McD's supersizing victims. It isnt about technology, it is about not driving 6.7 litre V8, not living in a 4000sq foot house that costs thousands to heat, not getting a new car every year just because you can (actually I wish some of them did - taxis outside of the main cities were ........ exciting - in all the wrohg ways).
It is easy to take the piss, but Wong the Chinaman is a damn site closer to being environmentally sustainable than anybody living in a western democracy. Interesting article in the paper today - Foxconn, the company that makes Apple product in china employs 250,000 people to Apple's 25,000, and had revenues last year of US$62 billion - larger than Apple, Microsoft, Dell or Intel.
All those dudes in yellow windbreakers might just have the last laugh if you're not careful!

Pete

Gerarddm
07-23-2010, 10:59 PM
There's always another planet because there's always hope.

At the top of the gravity well there is safety.

L.W. Baxter
07-23-2010, 11:27 PM
What political slant?



A false dichotomy of epic proportions.

You better hope that technology can cure the cognitive dissonance between social responsibility and reproduction because something's got to give and I take it you would rather it be the earth. Is that your political slant?


It's easy to dehumanize people, "Osborne". That "shift change" picture documents a moment in time and nothing more; not a single hint of what all those people in yellow jackets think or feel. It's just a document, onto which you project your own slant, that "Hell is China". Just like you tell us that pictures of oil fields illustrate "what is really happening in the world". Really, it's only happening at certain locations, and for a certain period of time.

Here's a picture of California just north of Long Beach ca. 1930. It doesn't look like this now.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/3280597.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D7132022B95A78F2DE545557236FE2B99 5223CE6E4BAF89B1

As far as the "cognitive dissonance between social responsibility and reproduction", the only possible meaning that I can divine from the phrase is that you think human reproduction is counter-productive to social responsibility. Of course, without human reproduction there is no social responsibility. You should feel free to not reproduce, however. The rest of us will make do.

WX
07-24-2010, 12:58 AM
Chine needs to export to survive. China's biggest market is the US. The US needs China to survive. So the US can buy Chinese goods, China supports US Debt by buying US government bonds.
It seems weird to me, it's like owning a shop and lending money to the customer so they can buy from your shop.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-24-2010, 04:56 AM
As LW Baxter has pointed out, those people are working in those factories, not because they are slave labour, but because the work allows them a better life than they had before. They are usually supporting their parents and saving for an apartment. Were you to talk to them, you would find people very much like a modern version of our great-grandparents, working hard in the confident hope of a better future.

A point which the photographer has missed is that the very "regimented" factories where the Company Song is sung with mandatory callisthenics are usually Taiwanese owned.

Osborne Russell
07-24-2010, 08:47 AM
As LW Baxter has pointed out, those people are working in those factories, not because they are slave labour, but because the work allows them a better life than they had before.

Not slaves in the western legal sense. Where else would they go? What else would they do? Start a farm? What would they do if the plantation closed?

A better life than a wretched starving peasant, not saying much.



They are usually supporting their parents and saving for an apartment.

The Commies are the ones who see that the parents have an appointment. That's what legitimates their rule. Ask them.


Were you to talk to them, you would find people very much like a modern version of our great-grandparents, working hard in the confident hope of a better future.

Massive ignorance of ecology and mindless religious homocentrism. A sea of mouths to feed, house and clothe -- keep that intellectual conscience quiet.

You can perpetually plead the desperateness of your circumstances if you are perpetually desperate. Think of it as the way of the world, Man's Fate. Then you're not responsible . . . hey, I'm beginning to see the light !


A point which the photographer has missed is that the very "regimented" factories where the Company Song is sung with mandatory callisthenics are usually Taiwanese owned.

Taiwan is part of China, according to China. That also doesn't show in a photo, or the calisthenics, or the song. You two expect a lot from photographers.

Osborne Russell
07-24-2010, 08:50 AM
Of course, without human reproduction there is no social responsibility. You should feel free to not reproduce, however. The rest of us will make do.

Is there such a thing as overpopulation?

Osborne Russell
07-24-2010, 08:54 AM
All those dudes in yellow windbreakers might just have the last laugh if you're not careful!

Indeed it's a certainty if you're not careful.

willmarsh3
07-24-2010, 08:55 AM
As far as the calisthenics and company song is concerned, a buddy at work once told me he went to a shipyard in Pusan, South Korea for three weeks to support a contract. They told him to be there at 8 and not before. With the jet lag from Alabama he naturally got up really early so he decided to go to the office early. He got invited to participate in the exercises. He thought it was quite amusing but decided to wait until 8 for the remainder of his visit. So it appears to be more about the culture than any sort of "military regimentation".

Osborne Russell
07-24-2010, 08:58 AM
At the top of the gravity well there is safety.

What's a gravity well?

Osborne Russell
07-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Chine needs to export to survive. China's biggest market is the US. The US needs China to survive. So the US can buy Chinese goods, China supports US Debt by buying US government bonds.
It seems weird to me, it's like owning a shop and lending money to the customer so they can buy from your shop.

It's not an oddity. It's just one level of the species-wide collective delusion, which is, if we keep hustling, we will free ourselves from the need to hustle, with Nature as our handmaiden.

L.W. Baxter
07-24-2010, 09:09 AM
Is there such a thing as overpopulation?

Of course there is. And it is my fervent hope that human population will reach a peak sometime in the 21st, without the kind of cataclysmic suffering experienced in the 20th.

Remember that the famine of the Great Leap Forward, during which perhaps 20 to 30 million Chinese died, occurred when global population was less than half what it is today. Like a documentary photograph, you are free to interpret that event as you see fit.

Speaking of which, as far as "expecting a lot of photographers", it was you who linked to the photos with the proclamation that they represent "what is really going on in the world". I just pointed out that they only show what is inside the frame. They are in focus and well-exposed which makes them good documentary evidence of a particular circumstance. But they are not particularly artful or revelatory. You're the one who thinks they are something more than what they are.

epoxyboy
07-24-2010, 08:19 PM
Remember that the famine of the Great Leap Forward, during which perhaps 20 to 30 million Chinese died, occurred when global population was less than half what it is today. Like a documentary photograph, you are free to interpret that event as you see fit.


IIRC, the famine happened because the communist party at the time decided to equate Chinese GDP to annual steel production - so that on paper they could outdo the US.
This was achieved by directing a huge portion of the labour force to work in small smelters which were used to melt down (amoungst other things) most of the agricultural machinery required to work the land. A huge tonnage of really s****y steel was made this way, but with no labour force and no equipment to work the land,the famine was inevitable. In other words, it was an entirely man-made disaster and had nothing to do with the ability of the land to sustain the people on it.

Pete

Canoeyawl
07-24-2010, 08:42 PM
No it doesn't look that anymore, Long Beach today
http://www.aaenvironment.com/Pictures/LongBeachPort3.jpg
http://www.aaenvironment.com/Pictures/LongBeachPort1.jpg

Osborne Russell
07-25-2010, 07:11 PM
So it appears to be more about the culture
than any sort of "military regimentation".

What's the diff?

Osborne Russell
07-25-2010, 07:14 PM
Of course there is. And it is my fervent hope that human population will reach a peak sometime in the 21st, without the kind of cataclysmic suffering experienced in the 20th.

How do you hope it will occur?

Osborne Russell
07-27-2010, 03:14 PM
Well, I guess you're busy trying to figure out a way to tell them, delicately, to quit breeding like insects on their own, or face cataclysm.

Meanwhile, I watched the movie again. There is indeed a political bias in the photos -- on the part of the Chinese National Government, which inspected and approved every camera location and which way the camera pointed. They objected to the morning formation picture because they thought it wasn't sunny enough, but weren't willing to pay for the photographers to hang around long enough for the weather to change. You know, you show something like that on an overcast day and people might find it depressing, ha ha. The photraphers were bummed because the overcast makes the formation fade over the horizon fairly quickly, thereby making it look smaller than it really is, ha ha.

I'm surprised all of these political slants weren't as immediately obvious to you as the one you mentioned, but then you won't say what that is, because you pulled it out of your ***.

GaryK
07-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Not slaves in the western legal sense. Where else would they go? What else would they do? Start a farm? What would they do if the plantation closed?

A better life than a wretched starving peasant, not saying much.




The Commies are the ones who see that the parents have an appointment. That's what legitimates their rule. Ask them.



Massive ignorance of ecology and mindless religious homocentrism. A sea of mouths to feed, house and clothe -- keep that intellectual conscience quiet.

You can perpetually plead the desperateness of your circumstances if you are perpetually desperate. Think of it as the way of the world, Man's Fate. Then you're not responsible . . . hey, I'm beginning to see the light !



Taiwan is part of China, according to China. That also doesn't show in a photo, or the calisthenics, or the song. You two expect a lot from photographers.
I'm having trouble seeing your point. The picture to me shows the scale of factories in China. The assembling in formation is nothing special, Taiwanese do it, they copied the Japanese who I think invented that kind of team activity before work. They are just factory workers with as boring jobs as American factory workers would have. And are free to quit, and join some other factory.... In fact, people work hard in tough conditions in all the developing nations past and present, China isn't the first.

SamSam
07-29-2010, 12:51 PM
Yeah, but a weird kind of war. I'm thinking along the lines of two one-armed guys handcuffed to each other, each madly trying to saw his own arm off first so he can get to the gun before the other guy. IOW not much difference between winning and losing.


I'm not sure how that would work. It seems they'd have to saw the other guys arm off.

Also, how are you going to work a gun with no arms?

TimH
07-29-2010, 12:54 PM
"it's like owning a shop and lending money to the customer so they can buy from your shop"

Great analogy.

..On second thought - it isn't an analogy is it....

willmarsh3
07-29-2010, 02:18 PM
What's the diff?

I think the Chinese and other Asians tend to put more emphasis on the organization as a whole versus the individual. OTOH in Western cultures there is less emphasis on the organization and more on the individual.
But like others have posted they are free to choose to quit a job whereas in the military one is generally committed for a previously agreed upon time.

Osborne Russell
07-29-2010, 04:31 PM
They're "free" in the sense that they're "not slaves" and "free" to live and work where they choose . . . I doubt it. The commies say where you live and where you work, how much you get paid, etc.

Let's say you leave the factory that makes light bulbs and go to the factory that makes circuit breakers. Now you get a blue jacket instead of a yellow one, and a new song. That's freedom?

Besides, the whole premise is that without this level of control, or more, this population cannot be sustained. That's freedom?

Osborne Russell
07-29-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm not sure how that would work. It seems they'd have to saw the other guys arm off.

Also, how are you going to work a gun with no arms?

You have to have faith that technology will take care of that problem. After all, it's miraculous.