The GRAPHITE thread!!

[Sailor]

OK, I was prompted to start this thread because I saw a sweet little boat with a graphite covered bottom. I have always thought black (flat or gloss) to go just about perfectly with certain things. Gold, Brightwork, Brass, White, Canvas and Hemp colours. In all. A ship like Cutty Sark has it all. Black hull, white accents, gold leaf work, shiny brass, sailcloth and lines. I am contemplating putting a graphite finish on the bottom of my Redbird Stripper canoe. It's glassed on the outside but still not off the mouldes yet. I have some work to do fairing the hull before I can remove it from the moulds. What I would like to know is,
a) how much does this stuff cost? It's GRAPHITE after all right?
b) how easy is it to work with?
c) based on A and B, is it worth the effort. OR, how much abraision resistance will I get out of it? Does it require "touch ups" I hear it's like steel but.... really? how strong is it.
Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? I'd like to know.
Oh yeah, and how heavy is it? Will it affect the weight of the craft considerably once it's on?

[RodB]

All you could possibly want to read....


http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=77424&highlight=graphite+epoxy

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=1958&highlight=graphite+epoxy


http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=88110&highlight=graphite+epoxy

Not very expensive, easy to apply (roll and tip), advantages up for debate... I like it...
Offers an slick easy to re-do surface that does great on trailer bunks. Read the links above for contrasting arguments.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

The "graphite" bottoms most common on paddleboats are just an epoxy layer laced with graphite powder. It's done because there's a suggestion the slipperiness of graphite will ward off bottom damage. Some paddlers swear by it but it's a rather recent fad. The unanswered question is whether the graphited epoxy can ward off UV degradation without any protection. I've heard a graphited bottom will not hold paint or varnish.
If you want to get a lot of opinions go to
http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi
Those guys never saw a gimmick they didn't like.

[Ron Williamson]

For a lot less work, you can buy graphite paint at TSC.
R

[RodB]

I've heard a graphited bottom will not hold paint or varnish.

Not true... it will hold paint fine... just sand it lightly...

I do not think graphite paint will be near as effective as epoxy with graphite powder mixed in it...

RodB

[paul oman]

I have a source for graphite powder - (by the pound / about 1 quart)

[davidagage]

Did I read somewhere that you can add graphite to your epoxy for coloring when glueing down a teak onto ply deck and the squeez out becomes your lines?

[RodB]

Yes, its one of the ways West Systems recommends installing teak decks.

RodB

[yachtie]

Did I read somewhere that you can add graphite to your epoxy for coloring when glueing down a teak onto ply deck and the squeez out becomes your lines?


Yes, its one of the ways West Systems recommends installing teak decks.

RodB

Slick!:D (pun intended)

[Eric D]

Ok, I have used in on 3 boats. All power boats. Mixed a bit with epoxy and as Rod says, roll and tip. Or be lazy like a buddy and just roll. Check out the Tolman Skiff group for a huge cadre of guys who put it on their boats. Almost all of them used it on their boats. When you call the guys from West Tech support (which I have 2 times) their universal answer to wether or not you need to paint or somehow add UV resistance is .....drum roll please....they don't know. One guy has it on his own personal boat and after about 10 years it just started to get chalky. He sanded it down very slightly, then spread another layer of epoxy/graphite into it. His boat is uncovered, stored out side year round next to the garage. Only the sun side was affected. Other tech guy said they have no specific UV inhibition studies with their product and graphite since every person's usage/storage and mixing ratios of epoxy to graphite are different.

I will say it mixes just as easy as anything, it MIGHT add a bit of bottom slickness which in my case with duck boats and smaller craft helps. As to abrasion resistence, hit a huge rock with anyboat and you will get abrasion. Same here. What it SEEMS to help the most is the abrasion that the boat gets when it is on the bunks on the trailer. All those scratches and minor gouges seems to be lessened, well, in my experience anyhow. Is it glowing ...no, but am I an anti guy absolutely not. If you want slick, there are much better products. If you want absolute bullet proof, this ain't it either. But it is damn cheap and lasts in my experience about as long as paint anyhow, so it is worth it.

[paul oman]

from experience - if you want a black graphite epoxy finish, apply over a black surface. Graphite not the best 'pigment' - applying it over a white hull was a mistake!

[Sailor]

The boat in question is a redbird canoe as I mentioned. I like the colour and won't be applying it over white, but over the bare wood coloured hull. It's already epoxied and just needs fairing and varnish before I remove the hull from the moulds. I'm curious as to it's "bulletproofness" durability and cost. What do I get for my efforts and money? I guess is the bottom line. The canoe will be used in wilderness tripping, river paddling, lakes and pretty much anywhere else I feel like putting the boat in the water. I don't see myself subjecting her to any rapids aside from what I come across in the average river. Thanks guys

[Tom Robb]

If I had to guess, I'd suppose that this may be a rare instance of More is Better - a popular mantra applied to way too many things down here in the USofA.
Did Googe Bros recommend a mix ratio?

[RodB]

I think the links to other threads I posted above...on this subject cover most of the issues disscussed here.

the idea is to mix about a tablespoon/ ounce of epoxy and it gives you a nice thick black mixture... apply at least 2-3 coats. Lightly sand it down with scotchbright... I used a piece of scotch bright on a 1/2 sheet sander. Finally, wipe down the entire surface with teak oil..which makes it look very uniform.

When the surface exposed to the sun begins to get a bit chalky... just sand a little and reapply a couple coats of graphite/epoxy mixture.

It increases the lubricity of the surface which lets it slip off of sharp objects easier. This epoxy/graphite surface stands up well to the friction on tailer bunks and looks decent for a long time. Read the entire threads listed above in this thread and you will get plenty of details on this subject.

I like it on my boat and have no complaints.

RodB

[paul oman]

as an alternative you can add teflon (tm) powder to your epoxy, varnish or paint. Very neat with epoxy. As the epoxy weathers or wears, it exposes more of the teflon making things slicker. Sort of like a quick sanding of a copper epoxy bottom paint job.

My epoxy graphite rowboat bottom was just a fun test. Think I painted over it almost immediately.

[paul oman]

a shiny copper epoxy bottom on a natural wood finished hull would look great. Need to seal the copper epoxy to keep it from tarnishing and the epoxy from yellowing. A good 2 part clear poly with lots of UV blockers!

[Sailor]

You can get copper coloured epoxy tint? That would be tres, tres cool.

[rob]

The first boat I ever built was an epoxy woodstrip 15' canoe way back in grade school...20+ years ago. I used it for one season before I scribed a waterline and "graphited" the bottom. The boat saw reasonably hard use and the varnish on the bottom was trash in no time... a few weeks of use, and the bottom was taking a UVpounding every time the boat got cartopped. The graphite coat added a bit of wieght, but it has lasted beatifully and been great protection form all minor abrasion

[joestrom]

Don't know about copper tints, but you can mix copper powder into the resin the same as graphite powder. Promoted as an anti-fouling coating, but results seem mixed.
Regards,
Joe

[paul oman]

teflon powder, graphite powder and copper powder all stir/mix into epoxy the same way microspheres and fumed silica do (and will thicken the epoxy too - easy to make copper epoxy putty if you go too heavy on the copper!) Telfon will not change the color the way graphite or copper will, partly because (I guess) you use a lot less of it (and it costs a lot more). All are fun to play with!

Interesting results when you sand copper epoxy. The copper platelets curl and the uniform shiny copper penny look develops dark area where the curled copper reflects the light differently. Also happens if you put the copper to a thick (vs. thin) epoxy resin (platelets don't lie flat)