21' lifeboat conversion - what would YOU do?

[Old Dryfoot]

So as it would happen I have come across an open 21' Davidson lifeboat for a pretty good price, maybe too much boat for me right now but it's an opportunity none the less.

I do not know the particulars yet but here are a few photos. I like the idea of leaving it open with a nice simple rig, maybe a yawl? What about ballast and keel/fin/CB, water ballast is very appealing to me but what about the rest?
It's too big to row single handed so a motor of some sorts is in order I think, an ob well would give me a usable boat while spars and sails and other details are sorted out...

anyway... here are pics... what would you do?

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1606/14030371640.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2161/14290867640.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6259/14290868640.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/672/14290869640.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7899/14290870640.jpg

Thanks for any input you have...
Richard

[Peerie Maa]

Old ships lifeboats used to be a popular way of getting afloat.
The weight of 25 people gives you the budget weight of ballast motor spars etc.
You can increase lateral area and ballast her by bolting a lead or iron billet under the existing keel, which was standard practice for lifeboat conversions. As to rig, a standing lug yawl would be best, lifeboats used to be rigged with dipping lug, when ships crew were trained to sail them.

[TerryLL]

Lifeboats are a strange breed. They're intended to sit high and dry their entire life and touch the water seldom if ever. Freeboard is high, and the intended capacity of 30-odd souls is the ballast required for stability. Consequently, their scantlings are not what you'd expect for a similar sized real boat, the proportions are somewhat irregular, and the hydrodynamics are similar to a shoebox.

She will need much modification to make her into a proper yacht, but all it takes is time and money. Ballast yes, and some sort of underwater lateral plane. Even with a proper rig, she will not be a speedy sailer, but might be a comfortable if somewhat fragile cruiser.
An outboard on a bracket will serve for power.

[James McMullen]

What if you made a razee and cut her down so that the rub strake was the height of the new gunwales? Sorta halfway towards a Caledonia Yawl then. . . . .

[seanz]

Whatever you do, don't change the name.
;)

Have you got your hands on a copy of Small Boat Conversions by John Lewis? That should answer your questions as he was the main enthusiast for 'cruising' life-boats.

[Hwyl]

Traditionally they were given small inboard gasoline engines, whatever was inexpensive and the bilges filled with concrete. Sometimes a small often gaff rig.

It was a pragmatic solution to getting an inexpensive, not so great boat.

It would be the great genesis for something whimsical, a fake pirate ship a Noah's ark. A liveaboard houseboat cottage.

Have fun.

[Old Dryfoot]

So would it be fair to say that as a conversion for pleasure use it might be better suited to a motor? I find that the shape for me looks very much like a deep canoe which is quite fat in the ends, is that where the shoebox come from?

This is all for curiosity sake now as I have just talked with the current owner and this a fiberglass boat so I think I'm out...

[goodbasil]

A well made boat. Davidson had a good reputation. Used to be located right down there at W. Georgia & Denman St. Where the bike shop is now.

[Old Dryfoot]

wow lotsa responses while I was typing... :D

[Old Dryfoot]

Hmmm an inexpensive not so speedy shoebox which would rate as a not so good a boat. This would explain the lack of examples to be found on the topic of lifeboat conversions.

Aw well that was fun for a few hours....

[Michael Beckman]

Lifeboats you say..

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v299/238/1/762934570/n762934570_607769_7525.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v299/238/1/762934570/n762934570_607778_414.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v299/238/1/762934570/n762934570_607777_82.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v233/238/1/762934570/n762934570_402699_9209.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v233/238/1/762934570/n762934570_402692_7173.jpg

[Canoeyawl]

I had the opportunity to go out for an afternoon in a converted lifeboat, fitted with an old atomic 4. I think the whole job, boat motor and all cost about two hundred dollars.
It was the wetest thing ever, excepting some of the log rafts I built as a kid. In a short chop, maybe 18", it would throw spray clear back over the boat.
We were drenched, cold and miserable in short order and I never have been on a lifeboat since.
They are designed to drift around, and slowly very slowly, go no where.
We did ballast it down to the calculated displacement and I could discern no difference between ballasted and not as far as stiffness, it had pretty flat floors.
I know it was less wet before we ballasted it.
But, the whole deal was lighthearted and educational and might indeed be great fun with a sail rig for a group of kids that wanted to fool around in warm water on hot summer days, twenty kids all up on the lee rail splashing and crashing off to weather like a fat duck trying to take off.

[htom]

If someone gave me one, I think I'd turn it into a swim platform on the lake. Maybe a diving board sticking out over the front, like a bowsprit, and a boarding ladder aft. Short mast with ratlines for climbing and jumping into the lake.

The authorities, I'm sure, would not approve.

[Captain Intrepid]

I spent a week sailing and rowing around the gulf islands in a converted lifeboat, a former RCN Navy Whaler. Heavy fiberglass contruction, rigged as a lug yawl, aluminum centreboard. It was great if you don't mind taking a long time to get where you're going, and you have a bunch of teenagers to row when the wind is light. Also, it was completely indestructible!

[David G]

Here's what my friend Dan'l did with his 26' fiberglass whaleboat:

http://andrewlinn.com/100509_ajax/ajax_9.htm

http://andrewlinn.com/100509_ajax/117dock.jpg

[James McMullen]

Have you considered a barquentine rig?

[wizbang 13]

Too bad you can't get a boat like your avatar. That lifeboat is a clunk!!

[cap'nRod]

Nice score. Don't let the prima donnas around here dissuade you. Make some big ass oars for her ...maybe a sculling oar also, and/or convert her into a nice little sailing sloop like the ones pictured above. They're just pissed because they spent thousands of dollars and tons of hours to get what you got for essentially a few hundred dollars. And yours is built to take a pounding, while theirs isn't. Great name too, as another poster noted.

[AlanL]

Whatever you do, don't change the name.
;)

Have you got your hands on a copy of Small Boat Conversions by John Lewis? That should answer your questions as he was the main enthusiast for 'cruising' life-boats.

Yes, that is a good book, I have it on my shelf. A boat that floats is plenty. Don't let the views of others put you off.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Here in Quebec, there used to be an odd club composed of converted,motorized, life boats. Their owners had them made into funky house boats and each year they would organize a cruise with sometimes as many as 8 boats in the fleet.

Do not know if this group still exists but they sure appeared to be enjoying themselves as they cruised about never going faster then perhaps 10 knts.

They looked alot like the boat pictured bellow taken from the link bellow the picture.


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d800b3127ccefa3f008a2eda00000030O02BauGzJmyZA9 vPgo/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/


http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-powerboats-motorboats-Converted-lifeboat-African-Queen-Eh-W0QQAdIdZ157795310



A friend of mine did the conversions on the two boats shown in the link bellow which operate as tour boats in Montreal harbour, and are all electric in propulsion.

http://www.lepetitnavire.ca/en/index.html


Lots of potential for some un-assuming on-the-water-fun with life boats!




Cheers!


Peter

[GBVT]

Read John Stilgoe's Lifeboat then decide. You'll either be inspired or decide to move on.

[wizbang 13]

10 Knots?? I don't think so.

[mmd]

I knew a guy who bought a lifeboat converted to a yawl cruiser. It was named Schnekede which, I was told, means "Snail" in German. The boat lived up to its name in spades....

[paladin]

Trade it for a few dozen sheets of good plywood or a truckload of fir or.......

[gert]

This is a 21' aluminum life boat that lives in Vancouver; sails out of False Creek.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/4677105998_0d05d6ae6b_b.jpg
I believe her name is Odin.

[johnw]

There are lifeboats and lifeboats, and the lines on this one don't look as bad as the lines on some. I've sailed on a couple conversions of 16' Canadian lifeboats, one a gaff sloop and the other a catboat, and found them pleasant daysailers, not too fast but with no major vices. You'll want a low-aspect centerboard with plenty of area so it doesn't stall easily at low speed, and probably a generous gaff sloop rig, cuddy cabin forward to block some of the spray and give you a dry storage space. If you're where you want to be once you're on the boat, speed's not a problem. And if things go pear-shaped and you find yourself in a survival situation, hey, you're already on the lifeboat!

[skaraborgcraft]

i have seen lots of lifeboat conversions in the uk. Depending on the hull shape,some made half decent cruise boats,one was a good sailing cruiser with ketch rig,and more than a few just get a wheelhouse plonked on top and used as fishing boats. You pays your money and takes your chances, my friend sailed from Sweden and back in a 14ft converted lifeboat, dont let the sour comments put you off what YOU want to do. Cheers

[Old Dryfoot]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.

It does not seem practical to convert this hull without including a cuddy or cabin of some sort, the consensus seems to be that it would make for a wet boat. That might be more money then I could afford to spend on this project, as a powerboat I think I could do it but I need sails.

I want to do the practical thing and I can only afford to do it once. I have about 4500 to play with so I have to make it count.

[john welsford]

Nice score. Don't let the prima donnas around here dissuade you. Make some big ass oars for her ...maybe a sculling oar also, and/or convert her into a nice little sailing sloop like the ones pictured above. They're just pissed because they spent thousands of dollars and tons of hours to get what you got for essentially a few hundred dollars. And yours is built to take a pounding, while theirs isn't. Great name too, as another poster noted.

Rod do you do this for fun, or are you serious? If its the former then its wearing very thin, if its the latter then every time you open your mouth ( sic) your credibility gets less.

John Welsford

[johnw]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.

It does not seem practical to convert this hull without including a cuddy or cabin of some sort, the consensus seems to be that it would make for a wet boat. That might be more money then I could afford to spend on this project, as a powerboat I think I could do it but I need sails.

I want to do the practical thing and I can only afford to do it once. I have about 4500 to play with so I have to make it count.
Well, what sort of boat do you want? I think you could have a nice half-decked daysailer for that kind of money, and a set of foulies as well. But if your needs don't fit with what's possible from this hull, you're better off doing something else with the money.

Instead of the cuddy, you could do about 5 feet of foredeck and a nice high splash rail forward. What's the beam, about 6'? It's not the most easily driven hull, so you'll want a couple hundred square feet of sail. I think it's doable on your budget, the only question is, will it be the boat you want when you are finished? Think through how you plan to use the boat.

[James McMullen]

Oh, John! Don't be too harsh on the poor Cap'n. I'm sure he'll be back soon with the proper oar-length ratio for those big ass oars based on his own experience with solo open-water rowing in large double-ended open boats. Maybe if you knew a little bit about a 6 metre long double-ended whaler type boat yourself, you wouldn't be so quick to judge the illustrious Cap'nRod!






(:D)

[Peerie Maa]

Well, what sort of boat do you want? I think you could have a nice half-decked daysailer for that kind of money, and a set of foulies as well. But if your needs don't fit with what's possible from this hull, you're better off doing something else with the money.

Instead of the cuddy, you could do about 5 feet of foredeck and a nice high splash rail forward. What's the beam, about 6'? It's not the most easily driven hull, so you'll want a couple hundred square feet of sail. I think it's doable on your budget, the only question is, will it be the boat you want when you are finished? Think through how you plan to use the boat.

Do it in easy stages. Foredeck and engine with a quarter propeller first year. Then false keel and ballast, with a nice simple standing lug rig, jib foresail and mizzen when you can, something like this
http://www.nickgates.co.uk/communities/5/004/005/529/685/images/4523608712.jpg has simple inexpensive gear.
Then later on, if you want you can add a cuddy and fit her out for longer cruises.

[James McMullen]

Peerie, I love that boat! What is it? Where is it?

That's the saltiest damn thing I ever saw! Love the spar stowage crutch on the near side.

[Peerie Maa]

Peerie, I love that boat! What is it? Where is it?

That's the saltiest damn thing I ever saw! Love the spar stowage crutch on the near side.

It is a small Scottish MFV based on fify/zulu lines that has been rebuilt and rigged as a Manx Nobby.
http://www.nickgates.co.uk/#/ocean-pearl-1/4526767101
The Manx Nobbys were Irish Sea herring luggers.
Gladys is one of the few real original survivors.
http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/data/981/medium/gladys_of_peel.jpg

[Venchka]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.

It does not seem practical to convert this hull without including a cuddy or cabin of some sort, the consensus seems to be that it would make for a wet boat. That might be more money then I could afford to spend on this project, as a powerboat I think I could do it but I need sails.

I want to do the practical thing and I can only afford to do it once. I have about 4500 to play with so I have to make it count.

For $4,800 US drive down to Bellingham, WA and buy the Wee Seal Opus. Details here at WBF. Search.

[Old Dryfoot]

Peerie, thank you for posting that, simply gorgeous... who says big girls aren't beautiful. ;)

Venchka, you, Sir... are pure evil! That is one huge hum dinger of a carrot to dangle in from of me. :eek:
Still... that makes me think, Thank you.

[scunthorp]

love your project I am doing something the same with a 26ft fiberglass lifeboat. How are you progressing?? John

[Old Dryfoot]

love your project I am doing something the same with a 26ft fiberglass lifeboat. How are you progressing?? John

I decided to pass on the lifeboat, I gave it some more thought and it's just not what I want in a boat, i.e. it's not wood or built by my own hands. I also had to give into better judgment as I've been out of work for 10 months now and while my boat building cash stash is still intact I like the feeling of having a bit of a safety net too. There are some beautiful examples posted to this thread and I still think a conversion would make for a wonderful lazy way to spend ones time so keep dreaming and planing. What was not right for me could be everything you are looking for.

This forum is also full of some very knowledgeable people who may be able to help you answer any questions you have, also the book Seanz mentioned in post# 5, Small Boat Conversions by John Lewis, would a good investment for anyone thinking of this type of a project.

Good luck
Richard

[Gluesniffer]

My Uncle Richard had one shored up for years in his backyard. We used to play Pirates on it when I was a kid, swinging from ropes and vines hanging from the trees that surrounded it. It was a great. Probably the best boat Uncle Richard ever had, as far as I was concerned.

[mike hanyi]

she does not look so bad for a lifeboat, like to see an interior shot, is she triple skin cold molded, please inform us. you cant hide that it is a lifeboat, its very hard,


We converted one a few years back as a yacht club launch but it was a plastic hull, it was a hoot working on it as we were allowed to be completely open minded on what she should look like, the orders were: make it as low maintenance as possible and very reliable.
we did the interior with ply epoxy, made a beautiful roof supported on stainless pipes, no house, we decided no doors for compartments, just canvas pouch doors like on the maxi boats as hinges fail! as little electrical systems as possible, the fuel gauge was a manual type like on a outboard tank. wish i had a picture of it as it looked ok for a lifeboat. one thing we did is sculpt a new sternpost and stem to try to make it look less like a lifeboat

[mike hanyi]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/rivieraproject/lifeboat.jpg

I would start with this thinking, could turn out nice, fat and pretty,

[outofthenorm]

Nice eye Mike. Find a way to drop in a small diesel and that would be a sweet little cruiser.

[isla]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/rivieraproject/lifeboat.jpg

I would start with this thinking, could turn out nice, fat and pretty,

Nice idea, 'cept it's the wrong way around :eek:

[AlanL]

Nice idea, 'cept it's the wrong way around :eek:

Oh c`mon. You get the idea :rolleyes:

Anyway, Richard has listened to the chorus and decided against this boat, however unfortunate that may be. Hopefully he will pass it on to someone who will give it a decent home. Maybe even put into place the nice workable cabin Mike suggested.

[Bob Cleek]

ROTFLMAO! With people even offering decent boats for free on Craigslist jut to get out from under the berth rent in this economy, converting lifeboats to "sailing cruisers" is pretty "out there." There are indeed "lifeboats and then there are lifeboats." (A motor whaleboat is an entirely differect animal.) Most lifeboats are designed and built to float with a load of people for several hours, a day at most, until they are rescued. Don't confuse these with the ship's boats that guys like Bligh sailed for thousands of miles. They aren't designed to go anywhere. They WANT them to sit right where they are so they can be found by the rescuers not scattered over hundreds of square miles of ocean. Sorry to hurt the feelings of anybody who has lovingly tried to turn one into a "cruising boat," but nice as their efforts may look, in the end, it will never be anything more than a converted lifeboat, and certainly nothing that wouild sail well.

[gilberj]

I'd love to play with something like that. The Davidsons were muck better 'boats' than many others. Lifeboats are designed and calculated on the block coefficient for how many people. Older ones tended to be moderately blocky boats and the more recent versions are more spheroid. This one is a boat......
Most of the better conversions that I have seen are power boats, something like the photo-shopped one above. It will not go fast, 6 or perhaps 7 knots will be about it, I'd go for 6 as a cruising speed. There is a very nice conversion up here in Nanaimo that a friend has. He has it in the back yard right now while he does some work. The hull on the Davidson is much better shaped.
If you are thinking sail......I'd put perhaps 1200 lbs of concrete, and metal in the bilge, build your simple cabin furnishings sides and roof, full width. I think you might be able to get standing headroom without spoiling the looks. A large fairly low rig......perhaps sporting a bowsprit and boomkin, these could be made to swing up vertically when alongside so moorage would not become astronomical. A junk rig might be neat, or a lug, or gaff. For lateral plane I'd go with leeboards. I think they would look right, they work fine, and do not take up people space in the cabin. Hanging a shaped ballast keel on the bottom is doable but it would be a lot more work and expense, with few real benefits.
Take inspiration from the photos shown above. This could be a very funky, individual boat, perfect for letting the imagination loose. Since performance will seldome be used in the same sentence you do not have to be a slave to convention.
This boat will not be fast. I see no reason It cannot be a good cruiser, and a lot of fun.

[viking north]

Old dryfoot go over to Boat Design Forum where i also hang out, Under "BoaT Design" heading run thru the thread, Reverse Engineering and you will see a 26footer i converted and also a yellow 21footer, also a 19ft. Newfoundland dory,I went thru the same negative bull over there also but they do make good craft.(CAP N ROD's post hit the nail on the head) I've converted several and am presently converting a 28footer surfboat/lifeboat into a cruiser/motorsailer. View the 21 footer it might change your mind. E mail for any questions. I would post photos here but man it's a just a complicated proceedure that i haven't conquered yet and believe me it's not for lack of trying, I got as far as a hosting site then my Virus Protection Program blocked me and i wasn't about to play with that. Geo.

[rickinnocal]

There is, of course, one big plus to cruising in a converted lifeboat... when it starts to get dark you sail straight up onto the beach, step ashore with dry feet and build the campfire. Push the boat far enough out that it's not 20' from the waterline at low tide, and then just sail away in the morning. Had many weekend camps like that on my high schools four lifeboat conversions with the CCF.

Richard

[AlanL]

Old dryfoot go over to Boat Design Forum where i also hang out, Under "BoaT Design" heading run thru the thread, Reverse Engineering...

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/reverse-engineering-conversions-modifications-36012.html

[viking north]

Thank you Alan L from a kid of another Island, Newfoundland. Old dryfoot see page three of that post, the 21ft. i converted is the yellow boat in the cradle. If you require more info just e mail me salr@eastlink.ca and i can forward more photos direct to you, Man got to conquer posting photos here. Geo,

[AlanL]

This the one you mean?

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/51662d1293401985-reverse-engineering-conversions-modifications-487551_l_27bb624fb11f07386f8a17991f0ccd35.jpg

[viking north]

Ok, now you're freeking me out, how the hell did you do that. I can't even post a photo here and you can pull them out of a hat. Ok Alan i'm going to post the photo of the origional lifeboat hull of this conversion over on the same thread last page, it looks very close to the one that started this thread, could you pull another rabbit out. Just want to give him a good idea of what he can do with his hull before it's too late. Tnx. Geo.

Ok sorry about the delay but couldn't find my photos, now posted

[AlanL]

:p :D

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/53642d1297211960-reverse-engineering-conversions-modifications-img-2-.jpg

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/53645d1297212668-reverse-engineering-conversions-modifications-house-bay-pictures-07-146-2-.jpg

[viking north]

Thank you sir, Alan, are you the owner? builder ? of the dory. Nice job. They are excellent sea boats (dorys) cut my baby teeth on them. I almost ended up in your neck of the woods. After i finished my tour in the RCAF, I worked for De Havilland and did a big comm. systems job on the RAAF caribou aircraft and was invited to join the RAAF because of my specialized training with the RCAF, came very close. Well that was 100yrs. ago now retired and building my own boat, another conversion, will post photos in the spring. thanks, again Geo.

OLD DRYFOOT-- this is what you can do with your boat, as you can see the owners hull we started with looks very similar to yours. The result a pocket motorsailer really is not a bad sailer. Geo.

[AlanL]

Hey, no problem. Yes Beatrice is our girl. She is a good'un. In the build I did the grunt work (soooo much sanding) and got a couple of skilled craftsmen to do the clever stuff.

That thread you posted. Does wander a bit doesn't it :D

[viking north]

Oh ya, my first thread , the baptism of fire so to say, I'm primarly of english/irish/scottish stock with a little french and german thrown in, well i had to call upon the stubborn irish qualities to get thru that. Being born in the independent country of Newfoundland and still in that mindset i think makes me a puzzle to some that with being a promoter of conversions as a way to attain the financially unattainable has it's challenges with the norm. It's just so dam hard for some people to grasp that many people just don't have the spare cash in one lump sum to put into a boat but other than that most of the guys are just great with their help and input. One thing i've learned you never know where a post will drift off too and it's a full time job to keep her on track. However i'm enjoying it and actually providing input. Top o da mornin ta ya, Geo.

A yacht is not determined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner