Highlanders

[daddles]

Does anyone have any experience with the Selway Fisher Highlanders?
In particular, I really like the outboard well of the Highlander 18 as shown here as well as the lug yawl rig (is that the correct term?).
http://www.selway-fisher.com/High18p1.jpg
http://www.selway-fisher.com/High18p2.jpg

I'll be carrying a family of five and would like somewhere for them to hide when Dad gets the weather wrong and it turns cold/wet. The cabin on the 18 looks a bit small but does anyone know how big that cabin is? Can an adult sit in it?
The next option is the 19'6" Highlander of course.

Both boats use water ballast. I read the recent debate about this and was left confused. In THIS application, does it work or is it an unnecessary complication?
I like that motor well, especially as my boat will be used on the River Murray as well as in the sea - ie, it'll be playing motor cruiser water infested with sand banks and sunken trees. Does anyone have any experience with that style of motor well?

For some daft reason, I like lapstrake. I will be having a chat with the boys at Selway Fisher but if someone has built one of their Highlanders in Lapstrake I'd like to hear from them.

Can anyone suggest any other designs that offer these features - shallow draft, weather protection, lug yawl rig, outboard motor well, fit a family of five, plywood lapstrake construction.

Cheers
Richard

[Meerkat]

"the boys" at Selfway-Fisher is Paul Fisher. I think it's a one man (and wife) show. He's generally pretty good about talking about his designs. There's also a forum on yahoo devoted to builders of Selway-Fisher designs called SFD_builders. I think, but am not certain, that there are or have been some Highlander builders on there

It's not exactly clear what you want in a boat, but you might also look at John Welsford's Penguin design (NB: John's a friend of mine). Check out www.duckworksmagazine.com (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com) for details.

[Venchka]

I suggest you contact John Welsford directly. He's just around the corner in New Zealand. John mentioned recently that he was working on a cuddy cabin version of his Pathfinder design. Weather protection, 5 people and a length under 21' or so is going to be a stretch. I second Meerkat's vote for the Penguin. I've sailed offshore on a 29' boat and 5 folks in the main cabin would have been "cosey" to say the least.

Pathfinder--

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/pathfinder/pathfy_s.gif

[daddles]

I can't argue with you about the Penguin. It's a bit big though. I need to be able to launch and sail this thing from a beach and on my own. The cuddy version of the Pathfinder is also up there on my list. The thing that attracted me to the Highlander was that motor well. It looks ideal to me but my only experience with that sort of well is that photo. I was hoping someone had some first hand experience.

What is the definition of a cuddy cabin? I thought it was a small, covered area, perhaps a quarter of the boat, with an open rear. But I've seen much larger, enclosed cabins get the same name.

Cheers
Richard

[Venchka]

A cuddy seems to be whatever one thinks it is. On the Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.2 it is a small raised area open on the aft end. On other boats, it's larger and closed on the aft end. In general, I think only the smallest of beings could actually get inside one. I have seen Welsford's Navigator with a cabin sporting two bunks. Then there's the Highlander-from the looks of it, you could extend the cabin aft but at the expense of cockpit space. Maybe that's a reason to build the 19'-6" version. Always compromises.

The motor well is a compromise too. The motor is inboard where you can get at it. It's also inboard where it takes up space and is right in your face. Sounds can resonate inside the hull. Outboard on a proper transom isn't so bad. More room in the boat. Noise is outboard away from you.

More compromises.

[Meerkat]

Perhaps another design worth mentioning is Bolger's Chebacco
http://www.chebacco.com/mainpicture.gif
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco2.1/article_files/image002.gif
Chebacco (http://www.chebacco.com)

[ 07-29-2003, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Venchka]

Meerkat,

Chebacco! Genious! Now there's a cuddy cabin that can actually be used. If I recall, there's a gentleman who sailed his around Vancouver Island. That says SEAWORTHY! Daddles, might be the boat for you. There's an active user's group, newsletter, web page. Tons of info. And you can build it clinker fasion! And kind of a motor well.

[Meerkat]

The gentleman in question is an acquaintence of mine by the name of Jamie Orr (I'd call him friend, but we have not encountered each other often enough). Together with his father (a scottish gentleman of some 80+ years old), they're the pair of Orrs that sail the Chebacco out of Victoria, British Columbia on Vancouver Island. You'll find numerous pics of their boat and their stories on the above mentioned (previous post) Chebacco site.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Jamie relates that it's not possible for him and his dad to comfortably seek shelter below in the Chebacco's cuddy.

I believe, but I'm not sure, that's Jamie in the yellow sou'wester in the green Chebacco above.

[ 07-29-2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Venchka]

Ah, well, there you have it. A cuddy cabin is where the wee Cuddy folks live. Not a place for normal folks to come in out of the rain.

[daddles]

Thanks for that Meerkat. The Chebacco was looking good too, as was the Hartely TS18 (the TS16 has a few size issues). My other problem with it was the size - it's a tad big. As Wayne said, it's all about balancing the compromises. I really need three boats ... but my wife isn't rich enough. My concern for weather protection came from my younger kids - currently seven and two. Already I've frozen number one son in the tinny when we've had a head wind and a bit of chop and I was trying to avoid that with the litte 'uns. Annie seems to think we'll never go out on days when the weather is likely to pick on us - I appreciate her faith in my abilities to read the weather even if I don't share it. However, we do live in a temperate climate so perhaps she's right.

The big size requirements come from two conflicting directions. I need to be able to carry my family of five - and the little kids will be big kids one day so that's five adults. However, I also need to able to launch and retrieve the thing from a shallow beach on my own because that's where it'll be used most and most of my sailing will be on my own or with one son.
Cabins eat up cockpit space.
Motor wells eat up cockpit space.
If it's too big, I wont get it in and out of the water. The boat ramp I use is no more than a commonly used track over a sand dune with high tide right at the bottom of it and often covered with thick seaweed. I usually launch the tinny by pushing the trailer down by hand rather than risk getting the car bogged - it has happened judging by the marks in the track.

So it's back to an open boat I think, but with the foredeck (back to the mast) enclosed overhead but not at the rear - a bit like the Highlander shown above. That should give little kids a place to hide if they choose and storage if they don't. Big kids can get wet and help with the sails dammit. When the boat's in powerboat mode, a folding canvas hood could be used to provide more protection - good idea for fishing in our aussie summers.

What boat? Much as I love the Caledonia Yawl, this boat will be used under power a fair bit, both in the sea and in the river, in shallow water. The river also features submerged logs and sand banks. A motor will get grounded sooner or later and so I'm wary of the motor well in the CY. Hanging the outboard off the side of the boat is good for short use but I'd be wary of it for long usage. I guess I see the CY as a sailing boat and I need a hybrid (there's that 'compromise' word again).

I'm thinking back to my original choice, all those boat plans ago. Iain Oughtred's Fulmar. It doesn't have that lovely rear end of the CY but is still a lovely boat. It's big enough as an open boat. Got a square transom so I can hang a 10 or 15 hp motor and get her up on the plane when playing fishing boat or on the river. I have yet to catch up with someone who's sailed one but it's hard not to have faith in Iain O's designs in that respect. For weather protection - enclose the foredeck as described above along with the canvass hood.

And there's a minor advantage - at 16' I can actually get the Fulmar into my shed to build it! Anything bigger will have to be built either on the street or elsewhere.

Thanks for your input and patience with this long post. I'd still appreciate any thoughts you may have on the matter. I've got a couple of prams to build before I start the 'big boat' so I've plenty of time to worry at the details. My biggest problem is a lack of experience with boats which means that I need other people's help to put my wild ideas into perspective.

Cheers
Richard

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Hey Richard, there's another option - Iain's Gannet. I saw one down at the boat launch on Sunday. She's smaller than Fulmar but a nice big boat still. At 14'5" x 5'8" she's beamy and lapstrake, too! And sails great. The one I saw was beautiful, I wish I had my camera. Oh, well. I'll keep my eyes peeled for her and might see her again.

Steven

[Venchka]

Originally posted by daddles:
...Big kids can get wet and help with the sails dammit. When the boat's in powerboat mode, a folding canvas hood could be used to provide more protection - good idea for fishing in our aussie summers.

Got a square transom so I can hang a 10 or 15 hp motor and get her up on the plane when playing fishing boat or on the river.

Cheers
RichardAt a boy, Richard, if they survive sailing with daddy, it will make them strong. Or scare them into never coming back. It's amazing what Polartec fleece and foul weather gear can do for cold and wet and miserable conditions.

You might want to talk to Iain O. about your horsepower expections on one of his boats.

The idea of canvas for sun protection when underway and a full on boom tent for really nasty bits of weather is good. Find a canvas genius and have him outfit the open boat.

I guess you've followed the Fulmar building on this Forum? One in Texas and one in Oregon building now. Quite a large boat-very nearly as heavy as a lightly built Caledonia Yawl. Maybe you can meet someone with a similar size & weight boat to practice with. Or hang out at the beach put in place and see what others are doing.

Good luck!

[Venchka]

Richard,

Put the Bay River Skiff on your search list. Planes with 10hp. 15' & 17' versions available.

Go to this link and then follow the links to cruising stories about the Bay River Skiff.

Bay River Skiff (http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/brs.htm)

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/Image2.jpg