Finger in saw

[schlaboatnic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1


Sorry if this was already posted, but pretty wild.

[Sailor]

I've seen it before and I would love to have one of those saws.

[CharlieCobra]

Wow...., so would I. Of all of the tools in a shop, the table saw makes me the most nervous. Maybe because I had a kickback accident with one years ago and remember well the 60 stitches inside and 50 outside in the web of my hand.

[Lew Barrett]

I have said this here before; if I were buying a new saw today, there's only one choice. Apart from all else, it's a great saw as well.

[Bob Cleek]

Yea, but "safe and sane" took all the fun out of fireworks and now they're doing the same to power tools! LOL

Actually, I've been hearing some complaints that the "failsafe" mechanism will trip if it encounters wood over a certain moistrue content, which I expect is pretty damp (but considering the construction lumber I saw at Home Despot last weekend.... still dripping)... and every time it trips, it's a very expensive proposition, since as I hear it told, it pretty much destroys the arbor mechanism when it does a "crash stop."

[Paul Girouard]

You can disable the safety part for cutting wet wood.

FWW had a article about a pay out against a saw without the technology , a pretty good pay out in fact.

Time will tell IF this changes the saw market.

The claimant filed for neglect on the part of the saw maker for not using the saw stop system.

[Bob Adams]

I don't care how many times I've seen that, I still cringe!:eek:

[Bob Cleek]

You can disable the safety part for cutting wet wood.

FWW had a article about a pay out against a saw without the technology , a pretty good pay out in fact.

Time will tell IF this changes the saw market.

The claimant filed for neglect on the part of the saw maker for not using the saw stop system.

I saw (no pun intended) the same article about the lawsuit against the standard saw manufacturer. If that portends the end of regular saws without this new fancy safety feature, I'd everybody to run out and grab a Unisaw while the gettin' is still good!

[Hughman]

I saw (no pun intended) the same article about the lawsuit against the standard saw manufacturer. If that portends the end of regular saws without this new fancy safety feature, I'd everybody to run out and grab a Unisaw while the gettin' is still good!

unisaws will become really cheap...

[Ed Harrow]

Stupid verdict.

[Canoez]

Yea, but "safe and sane" took all the fun out of fireworks and now they're doing the same to power tools! LOL

Actually, I've been hearing some complaints that the "failsafe" mechanism will trip if it encounters wood over a certain moistrue content, which I expect is pretty damp (but considering the construction lumber I saw at Home Despot last weekend.... still dripping)... and every time it trips, it's a very expensive proposition, since as I hear it told, it pretty much destroys the arbor mechanism when it does a "crash stop."

We're going to replace an old 10" Delta Contractor's saw with a 10" SawStop Professional model at the school where I teach. We went to talk to folks who sell it locally. They say that pressure-treated and wet wood will both set the saw's safety mechanism off. If you want to know if stock might trip the mechanism, you can test the wood. Ironically, to do so, you disable the mechanism with a switch at startup. You then take a small pass to square up the stock and have someone else watch the saw's status lights (on the switch) when you cut - if it will trip, the combination of lights will tell you, without actually tripping the device.

It's a nicely made, nicely thought out saw - even beyond the safety feature and at about $3K is comparable in price with similar Delta Unisaws.

Besides - $65 for a cartridge and $50 for a new blade is cheap and painless (both physically and emotionally) compared to an amputation.

[donald branscom]

Since I was old enough to use tools I have seen many improvements in many safety devices and safety gear that have saved many people from life long injuries.

The people that developed this idea should get recognition for how many people they have saved from serious injury.

[Canoez]

Stupid verdict.

'Twas.

[Nicholas Carey]

...a nicely made, nicely thought out saw - even beyond the safety feature and at about $3K is comparable in price with similar Delta Unisaws.

Besides - $65 for a cartridge and $50 for a new blade is cheap and painless (both physically and emotionally) compared to an amputation.Willing to bet that the medical bills resulting from a mangled hand will run well past the $3k-5k the saw costs.

[Bob Adams]

The best safety device is still between your shoulders.

[BarnacleGrim]

Some idiot broke the flimsy guard on my table saw. I'm tempted to throw away that piece of crap. I already had one kickback incident, no injury, but damn, that hurts!

A bandsaw would be more versatile, though.

[nedL]

I guess you'd need to de-activate the safety when cutting plate aluminum. :D

(I think the technology used is excellent!)

[Brian Palmer]

I have a friend who would very much like two of his fingers back. He knows someone who is a cardiologist who ended his surgical career with a table saw.

Still, I was at the local WoodCraft store when they were doing a saw stop demonstration. The sales rep tossed a hot dog onto the spinning blade. He and I were very surprised to see that the mechanism did not go off quickly enough and the hot dog was cut in two. I do not know any more except what I observed and could not wait around for an explanation.

Brian

[Lew Barrett]

That is disturbing.

I imagine that anybody who doesn't view Saw Stop's invention as a last backstop is going to be buying a lot of blades and brake mechanisms, so there is litlle incentive to actually test the device.

Still, imagine what the lawyers could do with that one had it been a finger and not a hot dog. Did the rep give any explanation as to the failure?

[BarnacleGrim]

I think feed rate is an issue. If you do it slowly it will only shave off some epidermis before it trips. But do it fast and it will certainly leave a mark. Especially tossing your hand (or a hot dog) onto the blade.

[Falcon500]

The boat school i went to had one, you dont need to mess with anything to test it, the saftey is engaged (green light) and you touch whatever your cutting to the blade and the light will either stay green or there will be a yellow or red error signal.

of course that doesnt work with wood that is case hardened (dry on the outside and green on the inside)

it was a nice saw, 220 three phase if i remember right, fence was smooth, and i think the original guard was a nice slim design

[Canoez]

WoodenBoat has one in the main milling room at the WoodenBoat School. IIRC, the salesguy I talked with about the saw said that the blade needed to be turning for it to tell you if it would trip (the indication you note) He may have been misinformed.

[jonboy]

I see the problem only that the typical accident with body parts and saw blades is not a gentle slow feed in to the sharp bit.....it's snags and kickbacks and pushing stuff throught too fast...Nobody I would hope would slowly feed their fingur that close, so the demo mentioned above where the rep chucks a sausage at the blade I think simulating a real situation, would prove to me the shortcoming of the kit.
Still It has to be better than not having the set-up.

[Rational Root]

The Circular saw Screams at me, an evil demon, demanding respect. You cannot but approach it with horrified care and respect.

The band saw hums away quietly, gently cutting everything and anything in it's path. It may not fling a plank across the room at mach 2, but it is so damned innocuous that it's dangerous.

[Canoeyawl]

The sales rep tossed a hot dog onto the spinning blade. He and I were very surprised to see that the mechanism did not go off quickly enough and the hot dog was cut in two. I do not know any more except what I observed and could not wait around for an explanation.

Brian
It may be that the "hot dog" must be grounded.
I had to add a ground wire to my electric fence to stop jumping deer. (feet not on the ground, no conduction)

[amish rob]

You cannot design the danger out of tools.
I once dropped a 1/4" chisel and it stuck my foot to the floor.
Accidents happen, and with power tools they are often nasty.

The worst I ever saw (including one table saw amputation) was a broken 1" blade on a big old cast iron band saw. The blade snapped as the motor got up to speed and lashed out with a vengeance just as the operator was about to start cutting. People hold an amazing volume of blood.

By the by, looked at the saw at the store; I'd take a Uni and a bunch of push sticks, if I were to own a table saw.

[htom]

I don't trust safety devices. They can fail. They lead you to bad work habits, and then they bite. Having been bitten (not by a Saw-Stop saw) (kisses finger with 94 stitches) I'm shy.

[CByrneiv]

The SawStop is a great system. Really, it would be wonderful if it was widely available on multiple different saws from multiple manufacturers, AS AN OPTION.

Now, every inventor has the right to make money of their invention, and I wouldn't begrudge the man that, but for one thing: Steve Gass has spent almost ten years lobbying congress, OSHA, and the CPSC (consumer products safety comission) to make SawStop mandatory on all tablesaws in the U.S.; and various European safety authorities to mandate the same thing.

I love the IDEA of the SawStop, and the execution of it seems very good; and I have no problem with the guy building a good saw, making good money from it...

The problem I have, is when someone tries to get the government to use the force of law, to compel other people to buy his product.

I have a MAJOR problem with that actually. So much so, that I will not, ever, buy a product from SawStop, or any other company that Steve Gass is associated with.

[Soundman67]

The SawStop is a great system.

I love the IDEA of the SawStop, and the execution of it seems very good; and I have no problem with the guy building a good saw, making good money from it...

The problem I have, is when someone tries to get the government to use the force of law, to compel other people to buy his product.

I have a MAJOR problem with that actually. So much so, that I will not, ever, buy a product from SawStop, or any other company that Steve Gass is associated with.

I have to agree with this. Dont force me to buy your insurance or use your safety products and I wont make you look after me when I get hurt from my own stupidity.

[floatingkiwi]

A few months back I was attempting to rip a block of wood with my table saw.Piece was about 8 inches long and 4 inches wide and I was cutting the thickness of about an half inch down.
There was a piece of a screw embedded in the wood with both ends cut and hidden inside the timber.
The blade found the screw and took angry control of that piece of wood , driving it painfully out of my grasp and launching it back at me. I took it in the sternum. I couldn't breathe and kinda staggered back a ways in the workshop and around a corner of a wall at the end of the shop and then dropped there. A piece of wood dropped me man.
Things were getting dim but finally took a gasp of air. Painfully. I was relieved and surprised, not to see it sticking out of my chest when I took my arms away from the area where I was struck.
I needed to lie down for the rest of the day.
I reckon if it had of struck me in the face, apart from the minimum of some serious disfigurement, it could most certainly have killed me right there in the shop.
Now I inspect all wood a little more thoroughly before cutting it.

[htom]

And that kind of incident can slam your hand into the blade fast enough that the blade can't stop in time.

[JimD]

Is there one for belt sanders? This was my finger a few days ago. Got the stitches out yesterday:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d835b3127ccefa099762cd1500000030O00CbOGrVu4cMQ e3nw8/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[SMARTINSEN]

Where is Mike Hanyii these days? He showed is a gruesome injury a while back. I hope that he has regained full function, though I suspect that his fingers are, at the least, very cold in those northern winters.

I am more worried about kickback on a table saw. I know that the spinning blade can cut me, and caution is ingrained. But kickback can be unforeseen if you are not paying the most absolute strict attention.

A kerf splitter is a big help.

[JimD]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584/table_saw_kickback_demonstration/

[bob winter]

I remember reading the details of the lawsuit against Ryobi that resulted in the award of 1.5 million in damages. How that guy ever won the suit is beyond me. Ripping wood without a fence or a blade guard. How dumb is that? I must admit that I generally do not use the blade guard but I am also very cautious when I am anywhere near a running table saw, or any other power tool. Even a drill press can be dangerous.

I am sure the Sawstop technology is wonderful but it won't replace caution and common sense. You won't know if the thing is actually working until you have occasion to test it. Better to avoid that sort of situation in the first place.

I still have all ten digits on my hands. I know people who don't and it was mostly because stupidity and lack of attention.

[Bob Cleek]

A few months back I was attempting to rip a block of wood with my table saw.Piece was about 8 inches long and 4 inches wide and I was cutting the thickness of about an half inch down.
There was a piece of a screw embedded in the wood with both ends cut and hidden inside the timber.
The blade found the screw and took angry control of that piece of wood , driving it painfully out of my grasp and launching it back at me. I took it in the sternum. I couldn't breathe and kinda staggered back a ways in the workshop and around a corner of a wall at the end of the shop and then dropped there. A piece of wood dropped me man.
Things were getting dim but finally took a gasp of air. Painfully. I was relieved and surprised, not to see it sticking out of my chest when I took my arms away from the area where I was struck.
I needed to lie down for the rest of the day.
I reckon if it had of struck me in the face, apart from the minimum of some serious disfigurement, it could most certainly have killed me right there in the shop.
Now I inspect all wood a little more thoroughly before cutting it.

I know, it's easy to say after the fact with 20-20 hindsight, but just for the record,

1. Never ever make a cut that is going to put your hand within a foot of the blade without using a push stick that keeps your hand at least a foot from the blade.

2. Never stand in line with the blade while cutting! EVER! Always stand to the side of it.

If you get a kickback, 1. will keep your hand from being pulled into the blade and 2. will keep the workpiece from hitting you.

3. Knock on wood!

[Werlin]

Hi folks, first time poster but woodworker since the 70's.
Our shop bought a SawStop saw and there are a few things to note.
1. It is very well made, especially for the kind of funtion that it goes through every time a cartridge fires and stops the blade. The trunion setup and pivots are very heavy duty for the saw hp rating. I would buy one for myself just for the build quality.
2. The retraction of the blade is caused by the momentum of the blade transfering into the perforated aluminum block that is driven into the blade when an electrical impulse triggers it. Wet wood, aluminum, some plastics and you will trigger it. When it goes, it's as if the blade just disappears. If you look at the super-slow motion videos, there are only 1 or 2 teeth that pass a given point when it triggers, the blade dropping actually pivots down and away from you. Even if you stick your finger in very fast, you'll only be exposed to one or two teeth. A nasty cut, some messy shorts and you can still count to ten. On the live demos I've seen, the guy cutting is pushing the hot dog into the saw quite a bit faster than you would cut any wood.
3. A kick-back is still a kick-back and they can be deadly. A guy in our shop got a light kick-back while ripping some hardwood and got speared in the groin by a 1/4" sliver that nearly got his femoral artery. Cost him 3 weeks of healing for that one little sliver. A saw is still a saw and the stop mechanism doesn't prevent accidents or stupid.
Just thought i'd throw in my two cents.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.

I don't trust safety devices. They can fail. They lead you to bad work habits....

That's the reason I didn't have lifelines on Sanderling. If you know you don't have them you're extra careful.


I love the IDEA of the SawStop, and the execution of it seems very good; and I have no problem with the guy building a good saw, making good money from it...
The problem I have, is when someone tries to get the government to use the force of law, to compel other people to buy his product.

I agree entirely. For the reason I gave above I probably wouldn't buy SawStop anyway. But for this reason I certainly wouldn't.

But I'd hate to think that any table saw not using SawStop would be illegal here. Australia's already more than enough of a nanny state as it is....

Mike

[BarnacleGrim]

I really need to make a featherboard before I touch my table saw again. That, and anchor it to the floor so it doesn't tip when I feed a piece of wood into it. Cheap rubbish.

[boylesboats]

Yea, but "safe and sane" took all the fun out of fireworks and now they're doing the same to power tools! LOL

Actually, I've been hearing some complaints that the "failsafe" mechanism will trip if it encounters wood over a certain moistrue content, which I expect is pretty damp (but considering the construction lumber I saw at Home Despot last weekend.... still dripping)... and every time it trips, it's a very expensive proposition, since as I hear it told, it pretty much destroys the arbor mechanism when it does a "crash stop."

How wonderful is this device..... There's always a chance of failure.. Just what ifs, it is set and failed upon contact with finger(s)...

I'll stay with the old stand by... use common sense, and be alert..

[boylesboats]

Look at this.... A wide open exposed blade on the table saw..
Don't this at home http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3OwAiyRUXA

These guys have many years of experience.. they know what they're doing..

[ILikeRust]

What many people probably fail to realize is that the drill press, grinding wheel, and stationary sanding machine are some of the more dangerous machines in the shop and commonly cause a lot of injuries.

I have been using a Unisaw for over 15 years, sans guard, and (knock wood) the worst injury I ever have gotten using a machine in my shop was when my hand slipped and hit the corner of the spinning grinding wheel. Ripped a long ragged gash - basically ground away the top layer of skin. That bled more and longer than any chisel stab I've ever given myself.

I also agree about the bandsaw - a very deceiving machine that will remove appendages just as quickly as a tablesaw, but it seems so much less scary and dangerous.

Simply put, if something doesn't feel right, stop and don't do it. If you're starting to feed something into the machine, and a little nagging voice in the back of your head says, "hmm... I probably shouldn't be doing this" or "I probably shouldn't be doing it this way" or "hmmm... I wonder if this is right" - stop and spend some time thinking about the best way to do it.

[htom]

I got bit because I was hurrying and not paying attention to what I was doing. I'd made nineteen identical pieces, was starting on the twentieth and last, push, think about what's next, drop push stick, only three more cuts, push, two and done, push KICK BANG where did all this blood come from? Where's my piece of wood? How strange, my hand doesn't hurt! Why am I bleeding when there's no pain?

Later, of course, there was much pain.

(I'm told by someone else who saw it, that there was a kick-back that threw my hand into the blade, the board then bouncing off my chest and hitting my arm a second time, and another bite. If I'd been using a feather board, or reached down and retrieved the push stick, there probably still would have been excitement, but only excitement.)

[LongIslandBoy]

Q: What's the difference between a butcher shop bandsaw and a woodworking shop bandsaw? A: Not a whole lot!
Don't know who said it earlier, but they were right: The best safety device is the one between your shoulders. Stagehand/ carpenter for 30+ years, and I've still got all my digits!

[skipper68]

all feels the same at the end of the day!!are you ok?just nosey

[skipper68]

I got bit because I was hurrying and not paying attention to what I was doing. I'd made nineteen identical pieces, was starting on the twentieth and last, push, think about what's next, drop push stick, only three more cuts, push, two and done, push KICK BANG where did all this blood come from? Where's my piece of wood? How strange, my hand doesn't hurt! Why am I bleeding when there's no pain?

Later, of course, there was much pain.

(I'm told by someone else who saw it, that there was a kick-back that threw my hand into the blade, the board then bouncing off my chest and hitting my arm a second time, and another bite. If I'd been using a feather board, or reached down and retrieved the push stick, there probably still would have been excitement, but only excitement.)how is it now??shot
my wedding finger half off from a defective orion flare gun..sucked

[skipper68]

keep us posted.wishing that your outcome was well.