Daysailer questions

[Shepard OB]

Hi everyone,
i'm looking for a design for a daysailer that meets the following criteria :
1. It's the first boat i'm going to be building, so i'd prefer something that wasn't extremely complicated
2. Finance IS a concern, but might be able to work around that issue
3. In the 14-20 foot range
4. Preferably NOT stitch & glue, an elegant design would also be nice
5. can be sailed double or single handed (single handed not absolutely necessary)
6. Beachable(totally optional, can be kept on a trailer)

When built it will be sailed on the east coast of lake michigan. I've read through some similar posts on the board and the design's i'm leaning towards include:
Iain Oughtred's Caledonia Yawl and the Fulmar
The green island 15

I'm open to other designs, of course, and i'd be glad for any input on it

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

The Caladonia and Fulmar are designs I have drooled over myself. After reading of others building these their context is always, "after two and a half years... three years after beginning..."

Life is too short for the Captain and I'm not even fifty yet. My Arch Davis sanddollar took six months and was about right for me. If you want a boat to sail in pick one that can be completed within a reasonable time. OTOH if you want something in the garage to work on and some day be finished with then go with the Caladonia or Fulmar.

I have corresponded with Bayside Wooden Boats and they have built several of the Green Island 15's. For amatuer construction they are comfortable in estimating 300 hours to completion. Granted it is not lapstrake but with some fancy paint work could be made to look pretty handsome. I'd consider a sheer strake molding with contrasting paint or bright finshed wood between the molding and the gunwale. Put a badge at the bow if you like too. The idea would be to avoid the sheet ply construction look.

I just visited Mike Kiefer at Great Lakes Boat Building in South Haven, Mi. Call him to figure out a good time and then go see his boats. He has a Caladonia but lengthened and widened it. It is one capable looking boat. You can look at Iain's drawings all day long but to actually see it before you - wow!

OTOH you could go nuts, buy Lotto tickets until you get a winner and PAY someone to build a Caladonia. :D

[Dennis Marshall]

Dang, Cap'n!. You should have let me know you were coming to MI. I would have met up with you and drooled over Mr. Keifer's boats, taken you for a sail, and treated you to supper and a beer.

Mike is a good fellow. He heads up the Western MI chapter of the TSCA. I got a chance to meet him last year at one of the messabouts. Good fellow.

Dennis

[Keith Wilson]

You don't mention the maximum number of people you want to carry; that will establish the minimum size, just as trailering , beaching, and sailing singlehaded established the maximum size limit. Length is not the same as size, BTW; there are 16' boats that will carry one medium-size person in comfort, and ones that will carry six.

You might look at John Welsford's designs (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/); they're relatively easy to build, pleasantly salty-looking, and good for as more weather than I'd sail in voluntarily. The Navigator, or perhaps Houdini might fit your application.

Another slightly larger one that I like a lot is Bolger's Chebacco boat. (http://www.chebacco.com/) It comes in several versions, either taped-seam or plywood lapstrake.

A smaller, cheaper, and very easy-to-build boat, which is also very elegant on the water, is Phil Bolger's Gypsy. This is what I built for my first boat years ago. It's taped-seam construction, but completely disproves the idea that stitch-and-glue boats need to be ugly. The Gypsy will hold two people easily; more than that is a real crowd and slows her down a lot. You can order plans from "Dynamite" Payson (http://www.instantboats.com/gypsy.htm), and plans are also in his book "Build the New Instant Boats." Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a photo on the web that does her justice. Here are study plans.

http://www.instantboats.com/images/gypsyst.gif

Arch Davis's Penobscot series and other designs (http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/) are also worth a look; very handsome and not too complex.

[ahp]

You might consider the Blue Jay. It was, and may still be a popular one-design. They are a 14 ft LOA V-bottom, centerboard day sailer with a simple and conventional Marconi rig.

They were built of plywood and had narrow side decks and short decks foreward and aft. They resembled a small edition Lightening.

Another one of my girlfriends owned one and it sailed very well.

[Shepard OB]

Thanks for all of the replies,
as for the number of people the boat will be carrying, 2-3, but having a higher capacity is fine. I just looked through bolger's designs, they DO look pretty nice. Not to mention the time frame/ costs.
I may be crazy but one design that really caught my eye was the light schooner. Granted, it kills the 14-20 foot range, and the beachability (is that even a word???). And from what i've seen sailing it double handed can get interesting. They seem to have some interesting handling characteristics...
On the other hand, i think they're pretty good looking, more so compared to some other sheet ply boats.
http://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
They are also finishable, while i do love the looks of the caledonia i'd like to get it done within a reasonable space of time. While the above builder had a fair bit of experience, he finished his in a little over a month. Now, correct me if i'm wrong on this, but with 2-3 amateur builders working full days, i think 2 months or slightly less might be a reasonable timeframe.
Price is another appeal, while it was a few years ago, he had the final pricing listed around $2220 i think. While i think its a little bit low, i think it could definitely be finished(or relatively close to it) for ~2500-2800 (3k tops).
I like this boat for some reason, while it breaks about half of my (flexible) criteria, i don't really have a problem with it, everything can be worked around.
sorry for the long post

[Keith Wilson]

Ahhh, don't worry about long posts; you should see how Sam F and I do things in the Bilge. There's no shortage of electrons.

I'm very fond of Bolger's light schooner. Except for the large number of spars, construction is about as simple as you can get. You could rig up a kick-up rudder easily, and then she'd be beachable with a bit of attention to the daggerboard, and she's not much over 20 ft, and light at that. I think if you installed good reefing gear, even singlehanding wouldn't be out of the question in moderate conditions. Just make sure you wouldn't mind answering thousands of questions from bystanders every time you sail her; allow at least an extra half hour at the launch ramp. ;) Here's a picture of Flying Tadpole II for inspiration. Y'know, the same fellow who built her has a nice design for a lug-rigged 16' boat, the Goat Island Skiff, (http://www.storerboatplans.bigstep.com/GISplan.html) that looks very nice.

http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/lsgm99a.jpg

[ 08-16-2004, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Ahp, the Blue Jay "resembled a small edition Lightening" because they are a smaller version of the Lightning - both designed by Sparkman And Stephens.

Blue Jay:

http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/art/design/bluejay_sailplan.gif

Lightning:

http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/art/design/lightning_sailplan2.gif

Sparkmans and Stephens website (http://www.sparkmanstephens.com)

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Originally posted by Dennis Marshall:
Dang, Cap'n!. You should have let me know you were coming to MI. I would have met up with you and drooled over Mr. Keifer's boats, taken you for a sail, and treated you to supper and a beer.Well if I had planned to come I would have dropped you a note but of course I came over on a whim. I woke up that morning and realized that it was going to be a slow delivery day. That left lots of time for prospecting for new accounts or looking up some wooden boats. The boats won. ;)

How many people would drive three hours on a whim? Lots if they are into wooden boats! It took some doing to find his place - much back tracking and so on - but I found it and he was there. During the three hour drive I kept thinking what his website said, "Call before visiting and tours are conducted only at 4:30 pm." Here I was arriving unexpectedly at 2:00pm.

Visualize the lion in the Wizard of Oz as he stands before the Wizard trembling and quivering before turning tail and running away. That is what was in my mind as I pulled into his driveway. :D

I started out by apologising to him for being unannounced and he was every bit the gentleman. He is quick at evaluating if you too are a part of this wooden boat world. He was more than generous with his time and I am most grateful for him having extended himself. He is quite a capable fellow judging by the boats he has built.

[ 08-16-2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Captain Pre-Capsize ]

[ahp]

Thankyou Steven. I sort of remembered that both are S and S designs. I wasn't sure.

[Buzz73]

The Stevenson' Weekender is a good cheap daysailing design, especially if built without the small cabin. Weekender (http://www.stevproj.com) 19.5'loa, 16'lod, 6'beam, looks like a Friendship Sloop. If you're after a schooner rig, there are a few builders modifying their Weekenders for such a rig. Try Backyard Yacht Builders (http://www.byyb.org) for more info on Weekender schooners. Try to link up with Stuart Benbow there. He's hq'd in Michigan and has a website detailing his schooner mod. Weekender Schooner (http://www.stuart.benbow.com/weekender_modification_details.htm)

[Buzz73]

There is a daysailing schooner design in development at
ThreeRiversMarineworks (http://www.3riversmarineworks.com)
Not sure if that's the type of boat you're interested in. Hope that helps in your search.

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by dddmdz:
The Stevenson' Weekender is a good cheap daysailing design, especially if built without the small cabin. Weekender (http://www.stevproj.com) 19.5'loa, 16'lod, 6'beam, looks like a Friendship Sloop. If you're after a schooner rig, there are a few builders modifying their Weekenders for such a rig. Try Backyard Yacht Builders (http://www.byyb.org) for more info on Weekender schooners. Try to link up with Stuart Benbow there. He's hq'd in Michigan and has a website detailing his schooner mod. Weekender Schooner (http://www.stuart.benbow.com/weekender_modification_details.htm):cool:

[MarkC]

In the Woodenboat publication, 'Fourty Wooden Boats - A third catalog of building plans - Compiled by the Editors of Wooden Boat Magazine' is more day-sailers than you can poke a stick at.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/Prodin fo.asp?number=325-062&item=1 (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/Prodinfo.asp?number=325-062&item=1)

The featured boats have been created by designers (with all the pluses that come from correctly designed boats) and have been chosen by Woodenboat because they good to build and work well. There are references in the book (and in the other 2 plan-books http://www.woodenboat.com/wbbksgal.htm) to all the good WB articles, books etc. that you need.

All the hard-work has been done for you by Wooden Boat (finding a good plan, good boat that is going to work).

I cant recommend this publication(s) enough.

Edited to add:

The book features boats like this:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p7df8f38fa6cc9cf2c9968380aaf99cbe/f758f852.jpg

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/Prodinfo.asp?number=400-120&item=1

[ 08-20-2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: MarkC ]

[santone]

How about building a Woodpussy? This 1940's Phil Rhodes design (13" 6" Marconi rigged catboat)is staging a "renaissance". Less than 100 still survive, mostly fiberglass. This 430+lb. boat will easily accommodate 4 folks for an evening cruise around a small Island to see the sun go down. There are three fleets where Woodpussys are raced with great enthusiasm. Visit the new class website at www.uswpca.org (http://www.uswpca.org) and check out the forums. Be sure to view Mark Angliss' comments regarding the plan to have several home builders construct new boats using Mark's suggested cold molding techniques. We project that we can complete a new boat with sail and trailer for less than $4000. there are a few of us who will be ready to go by the Spring of 2005.
Regards,Woodie

[brian.cunningham]

How about a sharpie?

Traditional
http://www.parker-marine.com/
http://www.parker-marine.com/terr211.jpg
http://www.parker-marine.com/sharpie18big.jpg

Stitch & glue CLC Sharpie (http://www.clcboats.com/boats/sharpie.php/cart_id=6d914f7c1368020f0e0f212dff16a8c9/)
http://www.clcboats.com/images/boats/sharpie-2.jpg

Then there's multihull
cats
[url]http://www.wharram.com/[url]
http://www.wharram.com/images/TIKI_21_GREECE-2.jpg
tris
http://www.kendrickdesign.com.au/images/wpe67244.gif

[Leigh]

Scruffie Marine Stornaway, they are an 18ft traditional style boat that come in an open day boat, a cuddy cabin and a weekender cabin. Made of epoxy soaked ply construction, you buy them as a precut kit.
http://www.scruffie.com/webgallery/stornaway_gallery/images/Stornaway-0.jpg

[JimD]

Originally posted by dddmdz:
The Stevenson' Weekender is a good cheap daysailing design, especially if built without the small cabin. Weekender (http://www.stevproj.com) 19.5'loa, 16'lod, 6'beam, looks like a Friendship Sloop. If you're after a schooner rig, there are a few builders modifying their Weekenders for such a rig. Try Backyard Yacht Builders (http://www.byyb.org) for more info on Weekender schooners. Try to link up with Stuart Benbow there. He's hq'd in Michigan and has a website detailing his schooner mod. Weekender Schooner (http://www.stuart.benbow.com/weekender_modification_details.htm)A Weekender with seven sails including a fisherman's tops'l? This I gotta see :D

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by JimD:
A Weekender with seven sails including a fisherman's tops'l? This I gotta see :D [/QB]He put up a photochopped preview.
http://www.stuart.benbow.com/images/way_overpowered_wkndr_schooner3.jpg

[ErikH]

the Caledonia Yawl is amazing: I sailed in her at the WBS in Mystic a few years back. Very impressive though doesn't look too easy to build smile.gif

Joel White (who designed the Shearwater) also designed a somewhat stretched Shearwater with a plank keel. Took me a month to track down the one guy with a copy of the plans; email me if you want info.
efilter@removethis.hammarlunds.com