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P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Vettel gifts Webber an increased lead in the driver's championship.

Spellbinding.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8713780.stm

rufustr
05-30-2010, 07:14 PM
Is Sebastian Vettel all he is cracked up to be?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tomcary/100008795/is-sebastian-vettel-all-he-is-cracked-up-to-be/

Fascinating qualifying this afternoon. Webber on pole for a third consecutive race, confirming his status as man of the moment. But crucially Hamilton broke the Red Bull hegemony and it looked like the McLarens were not far off their pace at all…
The body language between the three of them in the FIA press conference afterwards was very interesting. Webber and Vettel hardly interacted at all. Hamilton still less. Vettel is clearly rattled by the fact that he has now been outqualified in four of the last five races by his team mate and took exception to a Brazilian journalist who said he “always seemed to have a reason” for why it was going wrong. The implicit suggestion being that he should shoulder some of the blame.
This is a crucial moment for Vettel. The 22-year-old has led a fairly charmed life so far and this is the first time his star has not been in the ascendancy. How will he react? I can tell you that some of my colleagues are convinced he is not as good as his hype suggests and that he has not yet proved himself as a racer.
Yes, he can lead a race, they argue, but can he carve through a field like Alonso, Hamilton or Schumacher in his prime? He is still largely unproven. We shall see.
The start on Sunday will be riveting. Hamilton, after a frustrating season to date, will be absolutely desparate to catch Webber while Vettel will be similarly desparate to catch the McLaren. The blind, left-hander at T1 could catch someone out…

John B
05-30-2010, 09:16 PM
Watched the Indy crash yet?

http://jalopnik.com/5551418/mike-conway-survives-insane-indy-500-crash

ye gods.

Paul Pless
05-30-2010, 09:20 PM
Watched the Indy crash yet?

http://jalopnik.com/5551418/mike-conway-survives-insane-indy-500-crash

ye gods.scary and pointless - last lap, last corner, not for position, neither driver any where near the lead:rolleyes:

John B
05-30-2010, 09:33 PM
I read the lead driver was out of gas and coasting.

rufustr
05-31-2010, 12:21 AM
It never ceases to amaze me when all that Energy is released.

Apparently relatively unhurt.

A very lucky man.

johnw
05-31-2010, 01:29 AM
scary and pointless - last lap, last corner, not for position, neither driver any where near the lead:rolleyes:
Mike Conway had pitted for fuel, and was driving 20 mph faster than anyone else. The other fellow ran out of fuel, so he suddenly slowed. That's why the Conway overran the guy ahead. If the guy ahead hadn't run out of fuel and suddenly slowed, Conway could have finished in the money. If he hadn't pitted for fuel, he would have been coasting like everyone else, and likely higher in the standings.

So no, he was following a different strategy than the people ahead of him, and if someone hadn't slowed suddenly in front of him, it might have paid off. Scary, but not pointless. Personally, I stopped seriously following the sport when Jimmy Clark died. He did everything perfectly, as he always did, but the car ahead of him started coming to pieces and the pieces killed him. How can you love a sport where the heroes die? That should happen in war, not in sport.

rufustr
05-31-2010, 02:36 AM
Personally, I stopped seriously following the sport when Jimmy Clark died. He did everything perfectly, as he always did, but the car ahead of him started coming to pieces and the pieces killed him. How can you love a sport where the heroes die? That should happen in war, not in sport.[/QUOTE]

I have always understood the Jim Clark died when his car impacted trees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Clark
The fatal crash

On 7 April 1968, Jim Clark's life tragically ended in a crash. He was originally slated to drive in the BOAC 1000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_1000) km sportscar race at Brands Hatch, but instead chose to drive in the Deutschland Trophäe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Deutschland_Troph%C3%A4e), a Formula Two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Two) race, for Lotus at the Hockenheimring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockenheimring) in Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany), primarily due to contractual obligations with Firestone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_Tire_and_Rubber_Company). On the fifth lap, his Lotus 48 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_48) veered off the track and crashed into the trees. He suffered a broken neck and skull fracture, and died before reaching the hospital. The cause of the crash was never definitively identified, but investigators concluded it was most likely due to a deflating rear tyre. Clark's death affected the racing community terribly, with fellow Formula One drivers and close friends Graham Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hill), Jackie Stewart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Stewart), Dan Gurney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Gurney), John Surtees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Surtees), Chris Amon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Amon) and Jack Brabham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brabham) all being personally affected by the tragedy. People came from all over the world to Clark's funeral. Colin Chapman was devastated and publicly stated that he had lost his best friend. As a sign of respect, Chapman ordered the traditional green and yellow badge found on the nose of all Lotus road cars to be replaced with a black badge for a month following Clark's death[dubious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disputed_statement) – discuss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jim_Clark#Dubious)]. The 1968 F1 Drivers' Championship was subsequently won by his Lotus teammate Graham Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hill), who pulled the heartbroken team together and held off Jackie Stewart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Stewart) for the crown, which he later dedicated to Clark.
There was initial speculation whether as the accident was caused by a driver error or a deflating rear tyre, and the Lotus was investigated thoroughly by aircraft crash investigators for 3 weeks. Many drivers including Surtees and Brabham were convinced that the crash was caused by a deflating rear tyre and were adamant that it was not a driver error- simply because they believed Clark was not capable of making such a mistake.

Do you have other information?

John B
05-31-2010, 05:13 AM
I've watched the turkish collision a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIc-A--iNU

I dunno.. looks like Webber was steering a fair line to me .
What do you guys think?

The Bigfella
05-31-2010, 05:53 AM
Yeah - I watched it live. Webber was totally in the clear. I heard / read somewhere that Vettell admitted he "lost it" during the overtaking move - which is why his car speared off to the right, into Webber.

First rule of motorsport.... never take your team mate out. I think it will be a miracle if he can climb back from the mental torment of what he did to his team. Webber will have the wood on him from here on in. Vettell will need to demonstrate that he can support his team.

Hamilton and Button would never have won. It emerged later in the race that they were critically short of fuel due to the pace that the Red Bull cars had been maintaining.

purri
05-31-2010, 06:07 AM
First rule of "motorsport": never give the sponsors what the advertising agencies don't want to see.

johnw
05-31-2010, 01:06 PM
I have always understood the Jim Clark died when his car impacted trees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Clark
The fatal crash

On 7 April 1968, Jim Clark's life tragically ended in a crash. He was originally slated to drive in the BOAC 1000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_1000) km sportscar race at Brands Hatch, but instead chose to drive in the Deutschland Trophäe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Deutschland_Troph%C3%A4e), a Formula Two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Two) race, for Lotus at the Hockenheimring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockenheimring) in Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany), primarily due to contractual obligations with Firestone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_Tire_and_Rubber_Company). On the fifth lap, his Lotus 48 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_48) veered off the track and crashed into the trees. He suffered a broken neck and skull fracture, and died before reaching the hospital. The cause of the crash was never definitively identified, but investigators concluded it was most likely due to a deflating rear tyre. Clark's death affected the racing community terribly, with fellow Formula One drivers and close friends Graham Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hill), Jackie Stewart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Stewart), Dan Gurney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Gurney), John Surtees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Surtees), Chris Amon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Amon) and Jack Brabham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Brabham) all being personally affected by the tragedy. People came from all over the world to Clark's funeral. Colin Chapman was devastated and publicly stated that he had lost his best friend. As a sign of respect, Chapman ordered the traditional green and yellow badge found on the nose of all Lotus road cars to be replaced with a black badge for a month following Clark's death[dubious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disputed_statement) – discuss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jim_Clark#Dubious)]. The 1968 F1 Drivers' Championship was subsequently won by his Lotus teammate Graham Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hill), who pulled the heartbroken team together and held off Jackie Stewart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Stewart) for the crown, which he later dedicated to Clark.
There was initial speculation whether as the accident was caused by a driver error or a deflating rear tyre, and the Lotus was investigated thoroughly by aircraft crash investigators for 3 weeks. Many drivers including Surtees and Brabham were convinced that the crash was caused by a deflating rear tyre and were adamant that it was not a driver error- simply because they believed Clark was not capable of making such a mistake.

Do you have other information?
Reports at the time said the rear tire was punctured by a part that came off a car ahead of him. That may have been wrong.

rufustr
05-31-2010, 04:56 PM
There are reports Webber had been told to "turn down his engine".

Vettell still had a small margin of fuel from slip streaming earlier in the race, and thus a speed advantage to get up to Webber.

Webber did not block and allowed Vettell room on the inside to get alongside.

Schumacker, Hamilton, or any other top runner would have blocked Vettell before he got alongside.

Webber was too polite.

Vettell got himself on the dirty surface and then tried to make more room through intimidation, but Webber didn't move, and neither should he.

Vettell was in the wrong place and the result of his move was no where near it's conclusion as he hit Webber's car before he even got to the braking point.

A racing incident, but the result of Vettell's frustration at Webber having the wood on him over the last few races.

The majority consensus is that it was Vettell's fault and I have agreed with that from the moment it happened on live television.

rufustr
05-31-2010, 05:00 PM
"Reports at the time said the rear tire was punctured by a part that came off a car ahead of him. That may have been wrong."

Possibly a reasonable explanation.

How close were the following drivers to being hit in the big Indy accident.

Terrifying vision.

andrewe
05-31-2010, 05:05 PM
The conversation on Clark's death comes up frequently. Last time I saw it, one of the investigaters, a driver, stated that he saw all the bits. And it was a deflated rear tyre that oversteered him off the road into the tree.
A