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View Full Version : Gates stirring the defense pot



Dave Gray
05-09-2010, 11:46 AM
This seems to come up periodically.

ABILENE, Kan. - Warring against waste, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday he is ordering a top-to-bottom paring of the military bureaucracy in search of at least $10 billion in annual savings needed to prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power.He took aim at what he called a bloated bureaucracy, wasteful business practices and too many generals and admirals, and outlined an ambitious plan for reform that's almost certain to stir opposition in the corridors of Congress and Pentagon.
....


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37038802/ns/us_news-military/

Captain Blight
05-09-2010, 11:50 AM
I really wish we could shut down all the service academies. All the graduates of the South Hudson School of Trades and the Annapolis Maritime Hoplology Institute that I've met have been badly, badly overconfident and underqualified. If a servicemember wants to be an officer that badly, they can bloody well mustang their way in. I really think that in order to lead effectively, they have to know-- not guess, know-- the mind of the EM. And the fastest way to that is to enlist with an OCS option. Certainly the very best officers I served under were all mustangs.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-09-2010, 11:52 AM
The American defense bureaucracy is probably the most wasteful bloated bureaucratic system in the world. Fear and propaganda has kept it's existence as an entity safe for a long time. There is no question that it has a management that has every interest in keeping it's budget as large as it is, an empire unto itself. Despite all it's 'combat power' American forces still focus on types of warfare that don't win.

Dave Gray
05-09-2010, 11:57 AM
You know what happens to admirals and generals when they are forced to retire, don't you? They become lobbyists for the defense industry...

Captain Blight
05-09-2010, 12:01 PM
The American defense bureaucracy is probably the most wasteful bloated bureaucratic system in the world. Fear and propaganda has kept it's existence as an entity safe for a long time. There is no question that it has a management that has every interest in keeping it's budget as large as it is, an empire unto itself. Despite all it's 'combat power' American forces still focus on types of warfare that don't win.We're all tooled up to fight a two-ocean war against uniformed opposition. What a bunch of dimwits we must have in the Pentagon; hasn't anyone informed them that the Cold War is over?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-09-2010, 12:02 PM
I've been reading some Carl Connetta lately.... interesting stuff.... the focus on military primacy, and the idea that everything changed after 9/11, (which isn't true)

Captain Blight
05-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Anybody read this month's Vanity Fair? Mark Bowden's (Killing Pablo, Black Hawk Down) article on Petreus was excellent, insightful and well-written. I gotta say, VF has come out with some really outstanding journalistic pieces in the past couple years. I think the editors are trying to shed the image of the magazine as fashion-fluff.

paladin
05-09-2010, 01:36 PM
I second what Cap'n Blight stated above....to be an officer you should spend at least 6 years as enlisted before acquiring OCS. It is difficult to get above an E-4 level on a first enlistment....and the E-5 and OCS was what they dangled in front of me to try to get me to enlist.....
OCS doesn't teach you anything but the fundamentals of leadership....you really have to be in the trenches and working alongside the troops to get an honest feel of things.

bobbys
05-09-2010, 01:53 PM
2 points im throwing out and do not mind if there blown apart.

Years ago Maybe before WW2 only a few people went to college, Brighter more educated minds were sought after ..

Point 2 Although i Am a Tradesman this does not translate directly into a business man..

Sometimes the best tradesmen fail because of lack of other skills not taught in trade school at all.

In other words Tactics, Command, Organizational skills might not be taught at the lower grades in the Military..

However i will defer to those that have served...

paladin
05-09-2010, 02:25 PM
Do not dispute that, Bobbys.....that's what OCS and further military education is for.....
a very good example is the nurses at dialysis....they are totally in charge...but in an emergency they have to rely on techs to do the work because they do not know how even though they have the certificate/education......I think to be a proper leader you also need to know how to be a layman.
I had PhD's working for me that wanted to design...they could not read the color code or twist two wires together...they may have bright ideas but they must rely on a technical person to translate those ideas into something worthwhile......
First, learn the trade, then learn to be the master.

pefjr
05-09-2010, 02:41 PM
This seems to come up periodically.

ABILENE, Kan. - Warring against waste, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday he is ordering a top-to-bottom paring of the military bureaucracy in search of at least $10 billion in annual savings needed to prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power.He took aim at what he called a bloated bureaucracy, wasteful business practices and too many generals and admirals, and outlined an ambitious plan for reform that's almost certain to stir opposition in the corridors of Congress and Pentagon.
....


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37038802/ns/us_news-military/
10 Billion? DOD can be cut that little before lunch. Can easily cut 30% of their budget, and will probably have to eventually cut 50% to pay for this Health Care. I know HC supposed to pay for itself. I did not fall for that scam. We and no one else either can have National Health Care and the same time defend the entire world, something has to give and that is gonna be the waste in DOD.

paladin
05-09-2010, 03:16 PM
....and foreign aid.......propping up dictators.........

LeeG
05-09-2010, 06:25 PM
I've just begun this book about the V-22 Osprey

http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-Untold-History-Notorious/dp/1416562958/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273447368&sr=1-1

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-09-2010, 06:31 PM
10 Billion? DOD can be cut that little before lunch. Can easily cut 30% of their budget, and will probably have to eventually cut 50% to pay for this Health Care. I know HC supposed to pay for itself. I did not fall for that scam. We and no one else either can have National Health Care and the same time defend the entire world, something has to give and that is gonna be the waste in DOD.


Ummm, who are you defending the entire world from? Aliens?

Hal Forsen
05-09-2010, 06:35 PM
and employing overpaid KBR etc. civvies to do GI's work........

Captain Blight
05-09-2010, 06:41 PM
...And paying the Taliban actual cash money in bribes to forestall attacks on contractor convoys, and this in a theater of war with a delivery system so inefficient that for every gallon of fuel delivered, 12-15 are burned.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. All the time and money we spent studying the Soviet failure in Afghanistan we may have just as well have flushed down the toilet for all the good its done. I am absolutely livid about this; I'm surprised more people aren't. There's more to being a patriot than wearing a flag pin in your lapel and denouncing those who disagree as traitors.

Stupid.

John P Lebens
05-09-2010, 06:50 PM
We all know the USA spends more than any other country for "defense." Of course the budget skyrocketed under the prior administration. It is growing rapidly under this one as well, but at least they recognize the expenditures instead of trying to hide them off budget.

Wikipedia estimates the total US defense budget for 2011 to be between $1 and $1.2 trillion. The recent health care legislation is estimated to cost about $900 Billion over 10 years. The military budget exceeds Social Security and Medicare individually, but they are paid by specific payroll deductions. So the military budget alone would account for around 1/3 of our Federal INCOME taxes.

When I hear the Tea Party types getting specific about cutting military spending to reduce income taxes, I will be out there with them.

For many states (Sarah Palin's for example) their "pork" is mostly military installations. The good news is that the Military, industrial complex is one of the last big manufacturing industries to pay living wages.

Budget for 2010 (From Wikipedia)

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]
When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff expected an additional supplemental spending bill, possibly in the range of $40–50 billion, by the Spring of 2010 in order to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.[5] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the

total for defense spending to between $880 billion and $1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010.[6]

[edit]Emergency and supplemental spending
The recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were largely funded through supplementary spending bills outside the Federal Budget, so they are not included in the military budget figures listed below.[7] In addition, the Pentagon has access to black budget military spending for special programs which is not listed as Federal spending and is not included in published military spending figures. Starting in the fiscal year 2010 budget however, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are categorized as "Overseas Contingency Operations" and included in the budget.
By the end of 2008, the U.S. had spent approximately $900 billion in direct costs on the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. Indirect costs such as interest on the additional debt and incremental costs of caring for the more than 33,000 wounded borne by the Veterans Administration are additional. Some experts estimate these indirect costs will eventually exceed the direct costs.[8]

John P Lebens
05-09-2010, 06:55 PM
10 Billion? DOD can be cut that little before lunch. Can easily cut 30% of their budget, and will probably have to eventually cut 50% to pay for this Health Care. I know HC supposed to pay for itself. I did not fall for that scam. We and no one else either can have National Health Care and the same time defend the entire world, something has to give and that is gonna be the waste in DOD.



Two of the reasons we were the last industrialized country to have something like universal health care: 1) we spend it on the military instead, 2) our health care system costs twice as much per capita as the average.