Weekend Skiff versus Doris the Dory

[KeeganEvans]

Right now my brother and I are in the middle of building a summer breeze and are looking to build a slightly larger boat. I was wondering if anyone had built either or both of these boats and what they could tell me about them. I am looking for something that would be used more for sailing than rowing. I am looking for something that 1 or 2 people could camp cruise out of and that can handle decently sized waves(for a lake). To me Doris is more of a rowing craft, but I think that she is a pretty boat. Does anyone have any experience sailing her? I do like the sailing rig on the Weekend Skiff with a main and sail.

[Thorne]

I take it that you want to be able to row the boat for aux (other than sail) power? Or will an outboard be used?

Doris looks pretty tiddly for 2 guys and gear to sail, so of the two the Weekend Skiff would be better for your purposes.

But there are a lot of other boats that would also work, the larger and more stable being less of a rowboat and more of an outboard-powered boat. "Proper" sailboats are too wide to row very well / far, so outboards are nearly required as aux power for them.

[KeeganEvans]

I am planning on rowing for aux, I am a university student and he is in highschool, so we are a little more endowed with muscle than with cash.

Being a good ways away from areas with lots of sailing, I don't really know about a lot of different kinds of boats. Is there some boat around that size that is a "standard" so to speak? Those are just two boats that I have heard about and there seem to be pretty detailed plans for.

[Thorne]

Don't know about a standard, but there are a number of small sail & oar boats that are pretty popular. A lot depends on your budget.

Can you trailer-launch in all these lakes, or does the boat need to be carried by the two of you?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Most of what you present is rather generic. Unfortunately there is a certain amount of science ( none of it too difficult) to understand.
For instance ,small sailboats may have a safe load limit of XX hundreds of pounds but that does not mean they will sail well with that much weight. So your weight and your brother's weight plus the heft of your camping gear has to be considered whe you choose a hull. If the boat is to be rowed the rower needs a convenient seat and enough room to perform the task. If your sail or rigging screws up it helps if you can get to the mast without stepping on anyone or anything.
Lastly, being stuck in an overcrowded boat on a hot day when the wind is slack isn't alot of fun.
It's best if you plan some short two-up trips minus gear to see how everyone copes. And if that works OK then you can throw a sandbag or two in there to see if the boat is still able to make the important moves like tacking.

[DGentry]

Keegan - there's no "standard" boat, but everyone has a favorite, or a favorite designer.

Check out the Duckworks plans index - there are dozens of small sailboat designs available, by a variety of designers:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/plansindex.htm

Look under "Skiffs" and/or "Day Sailors."

Some of these boats are harder to build than others, some are more suitable for rowing, some are heavier, or uglier or more expensive. Choosing which is right for you is half the fun!

As usual, I'll propose a Phil Bolger design - his simple S&G plywood sailing dinghy Gypsy. 15'x4', suitable for sailing or rowing with two people.
http://www.instantboats.com/images/gypsysail2.jpg http://www.instantboats.com/images/gypsyph.jpg
You can get the inexpensive plans here: http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html

Have fun!
Dave Gentry

[KeeganEvans]

Thanks for the plan list, I knew something of the sort must exist. I think we would like something that is at least fairly elegant even if it is a slightly more complicated build. All of the lakes that we would be going to have fairly good access. Thanks for the input, there are just so many different plans out there that it can be hard to even know where to start.

[jerry bark]

you might like a chesapeake bay crabbing skiff for your travels. I do not know about rowing one, but you could certainly push pole. I think this stlye of boat has many of the features that you mention: size for 2+, relatively modest materials cost (no exotic stuff required just wood hardware and paint), a little more elegant without being difficult or costly. plenty of plans around.

take a look at this book which would get you well underway for $5:http://www.tillerbooks.com/Chesapeake_Bay_Crabbing_Skiffs.php

good luck
Jerry

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Here's some more exotic S&G style hulls.
http://www.bateau.com/
A bit more expensive but lighter, stiffer and fairly quick to build.

[nonsly]

Sam Devlin's "Egret" design looks like a good combination of ease of build, good looks and decent performance under both sail and oar. It seems most who have built her have opted for a centerboard instead of a leeboard and I would too. No doubt there are better sail and oar boats out there (Vivier's designs spring to mind) but they would take much longer to build.

http://www.devlinboat.com/egret.php

[davebrown]

the first and third boats i built were bolger gypsies. they are easy builds and versatile. i would recommend the weekend skiff too. maybe the windward 17? lots of fellers on this forum like goat island skiffs.

[perldog007]

I have only built a model of Doris the Dory, and the designer's words would give me pause for sailing two up with gear. Google it up on Duckworks, and try to find Gavin's book at the library. I have read the Duckworks article where Doris first appeared and have Gavin's book.

Having only armchair knowledge of these boats, I would have to agree on the Gypsy recommendation. Besides, Pete Spectre sells full size patterns if you would rather cough a hundred or so than transfer the patterns to ply wood using measurements from the plans. At the other end of the scale you could just get your library to obtain a copy of 'Build the New Instant Boats' by Harold Dynamite Payson. Plans, though not to scale, are in the book and could be photocopied.

[Keith Wilson]

Bolger's Gypsy is a great boat, but doesn't row well with two people. I built one, sailed (mostly) and rowed it (occasionally) for many years. The single rowing thwart is right behind the CB trunk, and there's no place for a second person to sit. If you put in another thwart far enough aft to clear the rower's legs, her nose goes way up in the air with two people. You could make a rowing-only version without the centerboard trunk that would work fine, but of course it wouldn't sail. And that boat desperately needs a small skeg for rowing; it's much better-behaved with one,

[perldog007]

I never thought about that Keith. I wonder how much beer in the cooler it would take to counterbalance the aft passenger? It's starting to look ( to this newbie anywho ) as if the two person camp cruiser starts somewhere around 18'.......

[Thorne]

It's starting to look ( to this newbie anywho ) as if the two person camp cruiser starts somewhere around 18'.......

Now what would make you think that? :D

It all depends on how much stuff you need/want to haul along. For short trips on the water and long camps, I tend to fill the boat...leaving room for only one person.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3900915815_92e7ab2990_b.jpg

[kenjamin]

For a very versatile, inexpensive, easy-to-build boat check out Ross Lillistone's Flint:

http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Flint.jpg

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/FlintMotor.jpg

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/FlintSail.jpg

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/FlintCarTop2.jpg