21 foot Long Island Skipjack 1877

[David Shipway]

I have a blown up set of lines and sailplan on the workshop wall from Chapelle's Small Sailing Craft (page 307) of a Long Island Skipjack circa 1877. I just love the look of this boat, but wonder what sort of a performer it would be for inshore waters. Anybody familiar with the design and has comments? I'm all ears.
shipway@island.net

[Bill Perkins]

David ,if you mean you blew the plans up directly from the book ,I just wanted to mention that you can get copies of the drawings at true scale from the Smithsonian for not much money .

[David Shipway]

Yes, I did get the sheets from Smithsonian, plus for a few other boats, because this is one of the greatest and cheapest sources of traditional boat plans, a legacy of Howard Chapelle's immense contribution to boat building history.

That said, I probably wouldn't build the boat traditionally, since cross-planked hulls don't like being out of the water all winter. Because of the twist up forward, plywood's not an easy option, so I have thought of a double diagonal bottom with epoxy/glass and 1/4" cedar veneer,, and strip=planked sides.

[Bill Perkins]

David I planked my 24 foot V bottom double diagnal for the same reason .Toward the bow I had to do a 3 layer layup .

web page (http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4287991343)

Also in the Smithsonian catalouge are the plans shown in Sucher's Simplified Boatbuilding .Pages 190 and 191 show lines and offsets for a Northern Skipjack very similar to the one in ASSC.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p35085845cce9c988bf6589ab35f16c72/f35dc342.jpg

There's even an alternate Lateen rig ,which suprised me . Was this rig really in use in Long Island Sound during the 1860's, or did the author dream this up ?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid176/p20b535e52060ca16edd029569a3eab26/f35d0fed.jpg

[ 07-07-2005, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[David Shipway]

Very interesting lateen alternative. Thanks for other reference to this type Bill, maybe email me directly about a full size version, and accessing your boat photos.

[David Shipway]

Unfortunately, I only have the Flat Bottom volume of suchers. I'm really after information on the overall handling and seaworthyness of the hull type at this size of boat, and whether it's simplicity of construction isn't a compromize in performance.

[Bill Perkins]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p1ca6cfd03e551fe50181dda4deb8d23b/f9ef9b04.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pea18f0119c5443dcf07b9bb7627a3887/f9ef9d49.jpg

[Norske3]

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[ 07-13-2005, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[David Shipway]

Bill, I would really like to see some larger versions of the Sucher lines and offsets you've posted here. But more importantly, I"m looking for user feedback on the performance characteristics of this particular hull form, a beamy V bottom centerboarder with large sail rig. Maybe Sucher's book has more detail on this type than Chapelle's?

My hunch is that it's a fast fair weather sailor, but will need some ballast and reefing in weather over 15knots. And it's beachable, and just big enough to overnight in, with a boom tent and forward cuddy. I would love to build with modern wood composite, but am hesitant to take the plunge, invest the time and yes money on a wet dog.

[Bill Perkins]

David we have to think that the V bottom's simplicity of construction is a compromise in performance in displacement hulls , otherwise why would rounded hulls exist ?. No V bottoms competing for the America's Cup .If ,in a simple open boat , the saveings in hull cost from V bottom construction allow you to build a longer and perhaps wider boat for a given budget ,the difference in performance may be more than wiped out .Useing modern glued construction though, I think it may be hard to beat the cost/benifit ratio of sheathed ,strip planked ,round bottomed hulls ;especially if you're an amatuer working for "free".My boat is a planeing outboard , which is a different deal .

That said , I'd be happy to mail you the Sucher chapter on The Northern Skipjack .

[ 07-13-2005, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[David Shipway]

I will take you up on that kind offer Bill. Email me at shipway@island.net for address.

[santone]

David, My friend Peter Tomlinson http://www.mysailingworld.com/skip.htm owns this boat. It was made in 1979 for the wife of Paul Melon. I've often sailed with him. It's a great boat and an eye popper here on Long Island (Northport area). It's a re-make of an 1860's fishing boat as depicted in the Monet painting of the Bridge at Argentuiel (sp?).Try a google on this. If you don't come up with it let me know, I'll give you the address.
Regards,
Tony

[santone]

Here's the link for the Monet painting http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/gg86/gg86-61108.0-repro.html
David ir right about it being a fast day sailor in fair weather. it carries over 300 lbls. of lead pigs in the bilge and in about 18-20 kts' you're happy to have two or three pieces of good rail meat on board.
It's very much like a sand-bagger, tho not as extreme. Peter is 79 years old and will trade down to something a little less challenging in about a year or so. Regards,
Tony

[David Shipway]

Thanks for the picture links Tony. The Monet paints such a beautiful mood, although the black boat seems to have a bit too much stern counter, so may actually be a deeper hull for so much sail. It would be wondeful to talk with Peter Thomlinson about which set of lines were used for his boat, and how this skipjack performs.

[PVanderwaart]

This boat is from Norwalk, CT, I think. It seems to sail very well.

http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/SailOysterBoat.jpg

[David Shipway]

Interesting hybrid. The gaff's a couple of feet too long and hanging slack, but otherwise she's a real beauty, if you have sunglasses on.. The shading on the hull suggests a carvel, strip/planked or cold-molded round-bilged hull. Bill would approve.

Plumb stem, sprung down bowsprit, pivoting jib-boom, definitely in that skipjack lineage, but where's the rudder hiding?

[PVanderwaart]

This is a restored boat; certainly carvel. The lines in the sail are from lazy jacks, not wrinkles. I assume the rudder is under the counter, possibly attached to a keel. I haven't seen the underbody.

[Traditionalistic Nick]

David, I've been looking building the same boat and I've also not been able to find anyone who knows how it sails. As far as the compromise of the hard-chine hull construction, look at the more recent "Skipjacks" down in the Chesapeake. There's something to be said for simplicity! Also, how many dories and sharpies were built by the guys whose lives depended on them? Of course, they probably knew how to sail them and they had others to copy or give advice. Which leads us back to the original question - how well do they sail on semi-protected waters?

Let me know how it works out and if I start one this Fall, I'll do the same. langdon20@cox.net

[David Shipway]

Well, I've just been handed a 20 foot catboat, fully rigged, at a great price, but she comes with something that will make everyone here cringe beeg time: a fiberglas hull!
I beeter leave now, but the good thing is....I'll be sailing next week!
Good luck with yours Nick, if you can get some reassurance about this particular V bottom boat, which has intrigued me for years. As I fondle the cat's rosy bottom though, I think I'll replay Bill Perkin's truism about round bottom hulls earlier in this thread, and steer you towards looking at that more graceful version of the New York sloop in that same book. She'd be a real beauty, and more than likely a better performer, and might be worth the extra effort of a durable rounded hull with modern wood composite construction.

[Brian Palmer]

I can confirm that the photo of the white gaffer was taken off Wilson Point in Norwalk, CT. My Dad has kept his boat there for the last 25 years and I know it well.

[OEX]

BRIAN, i WOULD LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS BOAT---TELL ALL IF YOU DO NOT MIND. I SAIL THE AREA AND WOULD LOVE TO MEET UP WITH HER---FANTASTIC!

BOOM TOO LONG? THINK AGAIN, THAT SEEMS SHORT COMPARED TO OTHER RIGS OF THE ERA. TOUGHER MEN THEN THAN i TO REEF 4 FEET OFF THE STERN OVER THE WATER---GOT TO LOVE IT. MAYBE WE WILL ALL BE THAT HARDY AGAIN IF WE (READ, ME) WOULD GET AWAY FROM THESE #@#*#$% COMPUTERS AND CHAIRS :eek:
I HAVE A 1903 LONG ISLAND OYSTER SLOOP THAT WAS CONVERTED TO A YAWL IN 07 TO AVOID THE HUGE MAIN. THEN AGAIN THIS WAS DONE WHEN SHE BECAME A YACHT AND NO LONGER WORKED---IMAGIN A MAST BEHIND THE HELM ON AN OYSTER BOAT? HERE ARE A FEW PIX web page (http://www.woodenboatrescue.org/wooden-boat-repair-classes.htm) ---ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.

CHEERS, BRUCE

[Brian Palmer]

Sorry OEX,

I do not know anything about the boat, but I was only able to confirm the location of the photo based on the previous post that said it was near Norwalk. That looks like the Manresa Power Station off the bow of the boat and the Norwalk Yacth Club off the stern and the boat is near Sheffield Island. The folks at the Norwalk Maritine Museum may be able to provide more info or know who owns it.

-- Brian

[Kevin G]

That is the Hope out of Norwalk, and although I don't know who owns her, I have seen her under tow of an oyster boat that may have been owned by Bloom Brothers. Not really sure of that point, but it might be a place to start.

Kevin

[David Shipway]

I would like to personally and publically thank Bill Perkins for sending me a photocopy of Sucher's V-Bottom Boats, chapters 18 and 19, which give a substantial amount of good info about the "high-chine models" of the northern skipjacks, of which Chappelle's drawing is an excellent and elegant example. I hadn't made the mental connection between the smaller high-chine skipjacks and the power-driven fishing boats that superceded them. That says something for the basic weatherliness and success of the hull type. I highly recommend that anyone interested in making one of these beamy sloops read Sucher's book. Had I not just bought this 23x10 catboat, I think I would have found enough positive confirmation in what Bill sent to actually start building one. It looks like a good simple hull for much the same coastal conditions that generated other centerboard models, including the modern catboat design.

[Harry Carter]

Hi Dave, 4 years ago I bought Peter tomlinson's West Wind- a 21 foot Long island skip jack which is the real mccoy of chappel's #307 drawing.. West wind sails very well in the protected waters of oyster Bay long Island , where I keep her. she's very good in light air,
manageable in heavy gusts (good idea to to reef the main and hold the main sheet in your hand) runs like hell down wind. right now am replacing the deck with 1/2 inch Marine Maranti 9 ply plywood and dynel. The boat wqas built by cosby in 1979 and launched 1980. Tony mentions this boat in his e-mails here. both tony and peter have gone out with me on a couple of shake-down cruises in the harbor. Hope to have her in the water again by Early june- latest.

[Harry Carter]

tony ,when are you and Peter coming over to help with the deck on L.I skipjack Westwind?