View Full Version : 16-year-old Abby Sunderland will end attempt at non-stop circumnavigation...
Steve Paskey
04-25-2010, 05:58 PM
... She'll stop at Cape Town, then continue her circumnavigation. Her main autopilot has died, and the backup is unreliable. I'll let Abby speak for herself, but I think her attitude about how things have turned out is admirable. From her blog, at 2:23 pm on Saturday:
I have some big news today. It's not necessarily good news, but the way I look at it, it's not bad either. I am going to be pulling into Cape Town for repairs thus ending my non-stop attempt. My whole team and I have been discussing whether or not I need to stop ever since my main auto pilot died. It's one thing to sail across an ocean with one well-working auto pilot, it's another to keep going with one that is not at all reliable.
It would be foolish and irresponsible for me to keep going with my equipment not working well. I'm about 10-14 days from Cape Town right now and though my auto pilot is working for now, we're all holding our breath and hoping it will last.
I gave it my best shot and made it almost half way around the world. I will definitely keep going, and whether or not I will make any more stops after this I don't know yet. I admit I was pretty upset at first, but there is no point in getting upset. Whats done is done and there is nothing I can do about it.
I know that some people will look on my trip as a failure because of this, and there really isn't anything that I can do about that. When you're surrounded by critics it can be hard to remember your own goals and expectations, you start to judge yourself by what other people are saying.
This is the experience of a life time. It's hard and sometimes down right terrifying, but I love it out here. My boat, my team, my sponsors, and you guys, my faithful followers are all great, and I am lucky to have you all on board. This whole trip came from a dream, a dream to sail around the world, and that is what I am doing - youngest or not, non-stop or stopping.
Ian McColgin
04-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Tought call. Good sailing.
Smarter than the average 16 year old. She's not done.
Nanoose
04-25-2010, 08:22 PM
Smarter than the average 16 year old. She's not done.
"When you're surrounded by critics it can be hard to remember your own goals and expectations, you start to judge yourself by what other people are saying. "
Not many 16 year olds I know have their heads screwed on that well.
willmarsh3
04-26-2010, 12:38 PM
"She was believed to be the youngest person to sail alone around the cape, known for treacherous winds and waves."
http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=12371896
Good to see that she will leave a mark on the sailing world anyway.
Lest I be misunderstood, by "She's not done." I meant that we will be hearing more from her and about her over the years.
That boat is known to be a handful.
rbgarr
04-26-2010, 05:04 PM
Abandon in the subject line is too strong. 'Interrupted' as a non-stop attempt is fairer. Anyone who thinks of her as a failure is a cynic IMO.
Steve Paskey
04-26-2010, 05:24 PM
Abandon in the subject line is too strong.
You're right: thanks for pointing that out. I've changed the title and first post to more accurately convey what's happening.
The Bigfella
04-26-2010, 05:39 PM
Not to detract from the girl's spunk and courage, but just to be straight on this, how on earth can you interrupt a non-stop circumnavigation without abandoning it?
Its no longer going to be a non-stop circumnavigation, is it? Yes, if she completes it, it will be a circumnavigation, but not a non-stop circumnavigation. She's already abandoned her first attempt at a non-stop circumnavigation. The current voyage is her second attempt and she has announced that she is going to abandon that, hasn't she?
If the planned stop is to be considered an interruption, it means that she needs to finish back at Cape Town, after one more trip around, crossing into both hemispheres.
Steve Paskey
05-05-2010, 01:11 PM
Here's Abby's description of what she's doing... she's "ending" her "attempt" at a non-stop unassisted solo circumnavigation...
It looks like a few people think that I am ending my trip in Cape Town. Just in case I didn't make it clear enough in the last blog, I am not ending my trip!!! I am ending my non-stop and unassisted attempt. I will continue on to hopefully become the youngest solo circumnavigator. Jesse Watson will become the youngest solo, non-stop and unassisted circumnavigator. The way I see it is that we both win which is great because neither of us liked being in 'competition' with each other. Go Jesse!
Steve Paskey
05-05-2010, 01:14 PM
And a bit more from her blog on what she's been thinking ...
I spent most of the day yesterday just sitting outside in the sun and wind and hinking about everything that has happened in this hundred day journey that has taken me nearly half way around the world. These are some of my thoughts so far...
All the storms and the dead calms, all the long days and nights working on my equipment, all the big moments like rounding Cape Horn. There have been good times and pretty frightening times.
I'm happy out here. I love everything about being out here. Thinking that in just two or three days I am going to be walking on dry land, seeing the people I talk to, and sleeping in a dry bed... it's a little overwhelming.
It may seem like no big deal, but to be honest, I wish it didn't have to happen. I guess it doesn't fit the race boat profile very well, but losing a record isn't a big deal after you have done what I have just done. Just being out here...I wish there was a way for me to spend the rest of my life out here.
Getting into port can be hard and from what Zac says it's even harder to leave. It's a bit of an emotional roller coaster out here. The thing about a roller coaster is that you know when it's going to end. Being in a storm with 20 foot seas sending you flying around you never know when it will end - it could be hours, days even weeks.
Who knows how long it will take to get used to being on land again, and then how hard will it be to get back into the rhythm of things out here? But I have taken a break from worrying about all that. Worrying about it isn't going to help anything and wishing it isn't happening won't stop it.
Dave Davis
06-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Don't know anything more than the headline and what the article says:
Feared Lost At Sea
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/10/abby-sunderland-lost-16-y_n_607691.html
Hope it's not a tragedy.
See the other thread, she has a survival suit and a liferaft, and manually set off two EPIRBS, Huffington post is over reacting to the known information.
McMike
06-10-2010, 04:39 PM
I think the parents should be put in jail, this should have never been allowed to happen.
dredbob
06-10-2010, 06:11 PM
I certainly don't think the parents should be put in jail, or in any other way suffer any "official" sanctions. I don't know the family or the girl, her maturity level, skill set, etc. But Life is not in any way certain, though Death is somewhere waiting for all of us.
Our society has become far too restrictive and protective of able youngsters. Parents are too afraid of the imagined dangers, the lurking predators, the potential injurys, the unsanitary exposure to an unhygenic (real) world. Reasonable precautions, training, and protective gear are good, but the total prohibition of any activity that might be in the least bit dangerous is bad; bad for the development of the child, bad for the society in which they'll have to function and some day lead.
I am very thankful that I grew up in a time and place where I could run wild in the real (natural) world for much of the time.
If Abby is lost, her parents will be punished enough by that loss, but, on the face of it, it was not child abuse, nor should it be otherwise criminal to allow a willing, able, teen to go forth adventuring into the natural world.
---
Bob
The Bigfella
06-10-2010, 07:45 PM
As a 16 year old, my parents let me ride off on an old motorcycle whilst my friends were dying on the roads as a result of their riding motorcycles. 20+ of my friends and acquaintances died in cars and on (or more to the point, off) motorcycles before I turned 21.
My parents didn't like what I did.... but they let me stretch my wings and fly. I survived. My 22 year old son wants to buy a motorcycle, has for some time. I caution him about it, the same as my parents did. I hope he doesn't do it, but if he does, all I will do is offer him positive advice.
I won't criticise Abby's parents. I wish them nothing but best wishes and hope they hear good news soon.
McMike
06-10-2010, 07:45 PM
You're right in that the parents will suffer if she is lost and for that I am sympathetic. However, there is a reason that CHILDREN are considered CHILDREN until they're 18 and even then most are not able to judge fairly enough to navigate the oceans alone. It can be done but that doesn't mean it should be. There is a fine line between brave and stupid and that's called death. I stand by what I said about the parents being sent to jail but I hope they never have to feel the full brunt of their lack of responsibility, I hope she comes back to them.
The Bigfella
06-10-2010, 07:52 PM
I think there's a line of experience that relates to the children thing. At 16 here, a "child" has reached the age of consent - and is allowed by the state to do what that implies. That's a dangerous dance in its own right with STI's that go all the way up to HIV.
There's an argument in train in this country to drop the voting age from 18 to 16.... and call them adults.
McMike
06-10-2010, 08:08 PM
There may be a difference in the 16YOs in your country compared to mine, I can't say. I do know, in this country most 16YOs are not ready to drive never mind sail solo on the open ocean. Society is very different from what it was even 30 years ago but the teenage mind in any generation is not ready for such an adventure. Maybe we have softened over the past generations but then that's the point of progress . . . to not have to pay so high a price to live.
dcohenour
06-10-2010, 09:06 PM
Not to be crude, but when my wife and I discussed this tonight my comment was: "It's better than dying in your cubicle". She laughed.
I sincerely hope and pray that she survives. I applaud her courage, and that of her parents to let her go.
The whole point that seems to be continually lost in this issue is the insidious nature of the `youngest' quest. On the one hand, we probably all agree that life is too restrictive, legalistic and paranoid these days - for goodness' sake let kids climb trees, go out in the surf, break a bone or two, but, on the other hand, to applaud the idea of an even younger person than the last climbing some mountain or sailing around the world, encouraging everyone from politicians to cosmetics companies to feed off these kids' endeavours, is irresponsible. I just can't imagine what this poor kid now is going through - Hell on Earth, I imagine. But what do we get in the Australian media - oh, Jessica's planning was better, oh Jessica managed okay, and commentary required of Jessica (now that she's the latest sailing guru) on Abbie's `state'. We're all really glad to see Jessica home safe, and congratulations to her, and we all hope like hell to see Abbie picked up safely, but the only responsible parties IMHO in this whole issue are the authorities who refuse to recognise `youngest' records - good on them. There is a very big difference between allowing kids to take on adventure and risk and encouraging them to be lambs to the slaughter. Rick
Peter Eikenberry
06-10-2010, 09:21 PM
I think the point is rather moot right now.
[California teen girl in trouble on solo world sail
By JOHN ANTCZAK, Associated Press Writer John Antczak, Associated Press Writer – Thu Jun 10, 4:36 pm ET
LOS ANGELES – A 16-year-old Southern California girl attempting a solo sail around the world was feared in trouble Thursday in the frigid, heaving southern Indian Ocean after her emergency beacons began signaling and communication was lost.
Abby Sunderland's family was talking with U.S. and international governments about organizing a search of the remote ocean between southern Africa and Australia, family spokesman Christian Pinkston said.
Conditions can quickly become perilous for any sailor exposed to the elements in that part of the world.
"We've got to get a plane out there quick," said Pinkston, adding that the teen's family in Thousand Oaks was asking for prayers for her safety.................. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100610/ap_on_re_us/us_girl_s_solo_voyage;_ylt=AkxGtaxfNNo2evgONAbM.zu s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNwZmZ0YXJ1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNjE wL3VzX2dpcmxfc19zb2xvX3ZveWFnZQRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wd WxhcgRjcG9zAzcEcG9zAzQEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl9 oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawNjYWxpZm9ybmlhdGU-
Lew Barrett
06-10-2010, 10:14 PM
A sad or at best exceptionally worrisome event whatever one's point of view on this adventure. The first thought that went through my head was "I'm glad she's not one of mine." The next of course; I hope she gets out of this OK.
To my mind, dying doing "what you want to do" is nowhere near as good living your life by enjoying your dreams. I can't imagine how her parents feel at this moment.
I think the point is rather moot right now.
`Moot' actually means debatable but I think you're saying that the current issue is Abby's situation and perhaps we should just think about that - please correct me if I'm wrong. However, let me say this - we've just seen a huge celebration in Sydney upon the return of the latest Australian hero - young Jessica Watson `youngest ever to sail around the world!' Please understand that in Australia we have to abide a sad media culture in which young people are continually `informed' that they, as Australians, have a heritage of courage, resourcefulness, winning against the odds etc. and that `our' adventurers are always braver, wiser etc. than those from anywhere else. Already, we are seeing the Australian media making comparisons between Jessica and Abby and there are no prizes for guessing how that's going - our little girl with dyslexia can do it so easily on a shoestring but look at what happens to the well-funded and equipped American girl - `we're' so superior, of course.
And now some other Australian kid (14, 15?) with family with dollar signs in their eyes is likely to launch another mad quest based on this hype. The message that should be out there is that, as Abby is finding out right now, out in the ocean there's a really good chance that you're going to get bashed up badly and that, if you're on your own in particular, you're only going to make it if you're dead lucky, as Jessica was. Abby's sailing experience and heritage seems to outweigh Jessica's by a country mile yet she's the one who's been thumped by nature. This is the message that should be out there - it's outrageous for adults to encourage a kid, with so much life at stake, to take on such risky activity.
I really hope that Abby makes it but I also hope that all parents have a good look at the situation she's in and know that if they send their kids to sea, there's a really good chance that this will happen to them. It sickens me that this message will not be presented in the Australian media - instead we'll simply see more Aussie hero BS. Rick
Nanoose
06-10-2010, 11:40 PM
...most 16YOs ...
Key word, most. You have no knowledge about this particular individual that gives you a basis to make any kind of judgement as to her fitness for this trip. Those who do know her disagree with you. Most 16 year olds may be useless, but definitely not all of them. Your blanket judgement is anathema.
The age and gender of the sailor in this case are most likely, irrelevant. It doesn't matter who is in a dismasted or dekeeled boat in those kinds of seas. True - these seem the most likely at this point, but we don't know and won't know for about, what, another 36 hours?
You're all not really suggesting a male, 30-40 something year old sailor in a dismasted or dekeeled 40ft. open, light weight boat would be making a repair and sailing on are you? C'mon.
Candyfloss
06-11-2010, 01:01 AM
You can be as PC as you like Nanoose, but I am suggesting it too. Girls CAN'T do everything. Jessica had a better boat, better support, and managed to scrape home just in time to save her own life. For a while there, while she was off Tasmania's weather coast, I thought it would be too late. Jessica has been incredibly lucky. I cannot imagine why Abby's parents are allowing her to sail down here at this time of year. It is suicide. This is the Southern Ocean in mid-winter. It is cruel beyond belief.
Just this week, a pair of very experienced Dutch sailors, husband & wife, had to be winched off their dismasted yacht in the Tasman Sea. They had left from Nelson at the top of the South Island (of NZ) bound for New Caledonia, as you do, this is the Season for sailing to the Islands...BUT they made the mistake of taking the shortcut up the Western coast of NZ & nearly paid for it with their lives. And that's only the Tasman Sea. The Southern Ocean is ten times worse. It is madness to even be there. I had thought that when Abby left Capetown she would sail home via Torres Strait, if she MUST complete a circumnavigation; it still qualifies, she's been 'round the world. I am appalled to find her in this part of the world at this time of year. It is no place for girls, or for men either.
I pray she is still alive.
dcohenour
06-11-2010, 07:42 AM
On the subject of Parents, Kids, and irresponsibility:
Just this week, a 9 year old girl vacationing on Lake Michigan (Western shore) not too far from here was swept out into the lake after she hopped in a kayak without a life vest. It was Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon, and there was a 20 knot wind from the west. Her parents were "nearby".
She was unable to paddel back to shore, and was swept out of the boat. Her father was unable to rescue her. The authorities are still looking for her body.
While I feel for her parents and grieve with them at their loss, this incident defines irresponsibility afresh for a lot of people.
It sounds like there is a little of that in play with the Sunderland girl considering the time of year and her location. I was wondering about all of that as I have been casually following the story.
Hopefully people will get the message that being on the water can be dangerous, however I think there is a world of difference for someone who is prepared, trained, and capable, regardless of their age.
Ian McColgin
06-11-2010, 09:19 AM
Regarding the incident from post #30, I don't see the parallels at all. We do not know enough from the retelling of the Lake Michigan incident to know if there was some parental negligence or if the child just, as kids sometimes will, got in the boat and surprisingly enough for a nine year old got it launched. Without full knowledge, I'd be loath to even hint at a painful and very likely wrong judgementalism.
All of which is profoundly different from the level of witting risk undertaken by Ms Sunderland and supported by her whole family. Remember, this is a family with fairly deep voyaging and boat building experience, well planned and well timed.
One might argue that having lost about three weeks in Cape Town, Ms Sounderland should have put the last leg back a year, but the rigorous weather she is facing is still in the window of passagemaking and once past the antipodes she'd be headed for fairer seas before the souther winter was upon her. Like the trip itself, it was a call but far from an irresponsible or irrational call.
I'd personally have chosen a slower but less stressful boat, one perhaps more repairable at sea, but I'm not about to condemn her for a different set of rational choises.
Now we'll see from the book whether she not only grew in all this but also has that poetic ability to share it.
dcohenour
06-11-2010, 09:38 AM
Regarding the incident from post #30, I don't see the parallels at all. We do not know enough from the retelling of the Lake Michigan incident to know if there was some parental negligence or if the child just, as kids sometimes will, got in the boat and surprisingly enough for a nine year old got it launched. Without full knowledge, I'd be loath to even hint at a painful and very likely wrong judgementalism.
All of which is profoundly different from the level of witting risk undertaken by Ms Sunderland and supported by her whole family. Remember, this is a family with fairly deep voyaging and boat building experience, well planned and well timed.
One might argue that having lost about three weeks in Cape Town, Ms Sounderland should have put the last leg back a year, but the rigorous weather she is facing is still in the window of passagemaking and once past the antipodes she'd be headed for fairer seas before the souther winter was upon her. Like the trip itself, it was a call but far from an irresponsible or irrational call.
That's my point. I don't see how Abby's trip is irresponsible, although there may be parts of it that could be called that by some people, since her and her family were prepared, etc.
As far as the case of the 9 yr old girl in Lake Michigan, it IS irresponsible to be on Lake Michigan without a life vest, & irresponsible for the parents to have allowed her in the kayak without one. The father was apparently teaching her, her two brothers, and two of their friends "how to kayak".
Lew Barrett
06-11-2010, 10:57 AM
What a relief to wake up this morning and realize that the likely prayers of two waiting parents were answered. Now for the philosophy!
Had she been lost at sea, there well would have been more credence given to the notion that the voyage was irresponsible. Certainly, the happy ending changes that.
I think it's remarkable that she got as far as she did, but I remain with the skeptics on this. That's to say I am with those who question the judgment of sending younger and younger children out to sea to sail the world, never mind how well or poorly they are trained and equipped. Nobody can question her skill or daring, and those are not at issue. Nor do we need ask in respect to her parents' love. This also need not be a reasonable concern of ours. The issue entirely remains one of judgment; do you circumnavigate before or after you are of legal driving age in most states? If you can circumnavigate, can you own and ride a 1000cc sports motorcycle? Can you drink booze? Most observant people will agree; 16 year old children are not fully developed in any number of respects.
Her parents had to struggle with this; not simply when she was lost, but in making and supporting the choice in the first place. Did one of them feel more reluctant than the other, as is often the case in family decisions, or were they both equally united in the choice? And if one was more reluctant than the other, what might it have been like in the Sunderland home these last hours? Perhaps that's a specious question, but if there were no sense whatsoever of the risks involved in this undertaking, that also says something about the parents.
As she failed at the voyage, I'd say there is a reasonable question here; just what do we allow our minor children to take on; if not legally, then as responsible parents?
McMike
06-11-2010, 05:12 PM
The happy ending, while happily received, does not exonerate the parents in my book.
The happy ending, while happily received, does not exonerate the parents in my book.
Her parents have done a superb job of preparing their children for life. My sons were taught woods craft, their friends were kept safe and not allowed into the woods. You can keep your children safe or you can give them credit for having basic self preservation instincts and teach them how to get out of trouble. My son was about four years old when he climbed a gum tree to about 30 feet and hollored that he couldn't get down. I asked him how he got up there he said that he had climbed up. So I told him that he would have to climb down. Find a place a little lower for your right hand. Now find a place for your left foot. Now move your left hand to a lower limb. Now move your right foot down. He said I've got it and he worked his way down.
McMike
06-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Not the same ssor. I get your point but I think the situations are a bit different in scale.
When I was 12 I went on an outward bound type trip and did all kinds of adventurous things that were inherently dangerous, deadly even. But the danger was mitigated by the presence of trained counselors; this is a good example of a reasonable risk. What these kids are doing solo is plain stupid and irresponsible. What would be the harm of doing this with accompaniment? Oh I know . . . no glory, no fame. Ridiculous IMO.
Not the same ssor. I get your point but I think the situations are a bit different in scale.
When I was 12 I went on an outward bound type trip and did all kinds of adventurous things that were inherently dangerous, deadly even. But the danger was mitigated by the presence of trained counselors; this is a good example of a reasonable risk. What these kids are doing solo is plain stupid and irresponsible. What would be the harm of doing this with accompaniment? Oh I know . . . no glory, no fame. Ridiculous IMO.
How many outward bound camps did you need to attend before you understood risk and consequence?.
My sons knew that the risk of making a misstep on a 6x6 timber across a narrow stream was the same as the risk if the timber was forty feet above the ground but they also understood the consequences. I believe that Abby's Parents had evaluated her skills and her toughness and had long talks with her before they said you can do it.
McMike
06-11-2010, 07:07 PM
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.
once past the antipodes she'd be headed for fairer seas before the souther winter
It's currently nearly mid-June in the Antipodes Ian. By my reckoning she was heading for a June - August spell in the Southern Ocean. I think I'd have been getting Scotty to beam me up before the rig went over. Rick
PLyTheMan
06-15-2010, 02:14 AM
I believe that Abby's Parents had evaluated her skills and her toughness and had long talks with her before they said you can do it.
From my armchair safe at home I felt more or less the same way, that her parents, under the assumption that they trusted she was mature and skilled enough to do this, were great for letting her undertake this. Obviously dangerous and, as nearly happened, potentially fatal, the decision to let her go was between her and her parents and whatever happened I thought it was at least commendable that they would stand behind their daughter and her dreams.
Then I read that her family had signed a deal to have a reality TV series (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0614/Abby-Sunderland-sailing-ordeal-A-new-low-for-reality-TV). Knowing that I think really calls into question both the motivation and nobility (might not be the word I want, but it is 3 AM for me...) of helping their daughter achieve her goals at great risk to her life.
I'm not a parent and my cruising experience is near none, so my opinions in most of this are pretty unfounded, but if nothing else I can throw more fuel to the fire with that link!
EDIT: Hrm, apparently this TV deal being new news to me this afternoon was already old news over in 'Misc.', guess I don't even have much fuel to add...
Andrew Craig-Bennett
06-15-2010, 06:14 AM
When I was 16 I did a two week coastal trip in a half decked dayboat, mainly singlehanded but with my 11 year old sister for a few days. No radio of course. I think my parents were pretty reasonable, espescially when we sheltered from a gale in Walton Backwaters for two days without going ashore to telephone them.
Hardly in the same league, of course, but I was doing what my father had done, at the same age, in 1919, there were no phone boxes ashore, in those days, so he just disappeared for a fortnight!
So I am pretty much in agreement with you; the idea of the voyage seems fine but the commercial side might have led to certain pressures.
Dan Newton
06-15-2010, 07:25 AM
Guess you all have heard about this?
http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/abby-sunderland-family-filming-adventures-in-sunderland-reality-show-11168.php
Not a big fan myself. The medium is the message. Where's the reality?
I would suspect that the judgement of the parents was clouded by the prospect of publicity and possible financial gain. Make these decisions without outside influence and then when it is close to time to go tell the world.
But after they had been paid to paint the boat and build the sponsored sails she had little choice and a lot of pressure.
I can picture sponsors running around her family with their hand tucked in their armpits and flapping their elbows and clucking like chickens should she have backed out or delayed.
Bob Smalser
06-15-2010, 08:27 AM
If you want to climb the Matterhorn, Mount Blanc or any other major European peak, you first go down to the village and by rescue insurance that insures rescuers get properly compensated for plucking your bum out of the jaws of death.....and that the local community doesn't have to absorb medical and any hidden costs.
Why not rescue insurance for sailing events?
http://www.alpine-guides.com/insurance.htm
rkeller
07-10-2010, 10:05 PM
Sorry to not be on the bandwagon here. I applaud bravery when it is needed but scorn false bravado. It was an irresponsible act that others have to pay to clean up. For what? so she and her family get their 15 minutes? Let's start with the $350,000 air bus bill. Her mother cries: "how can you place a dollar amount on a little girl". Well she obviously did!
The father states: "yes it's dangerous, but so is driving a car, what are we going to do stop all 16 year olds from driving cars?" I beg to differ, I see a TITANIC difference between driving a car and performing a solo circumnavigation. Not to mention THE SOUTHERN OCEAN IN WINTER, HELLO!. I'm sorry but I love my kids and hope to have grandkids someday. I'm reminded of the father who pushed his daughter to her death trying to be the youngest cross country aviator. How much was the life insurance policy on Abby I wonder. Cheerlead all you want but dumb is dumb.
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