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PeterSibley
04-23-2010, 03:06 AM
This might be of interest to the US contingent ...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/04/tea-party-how-big-is-it-and-where-is-it-based.html

LeeG
04-23-2010, 03:26 AM
thx, that's interesting and makes sense. When I was at the DC mall anticipating some Tea Baggerish displays it was dwarfed by the primarily Hispanic group rallying for immigration reform. This was on a Sunday where the immigration reform was at the mall covering a few sections with TeaPartayers off the Capitol bldg. chanting up to the politicians behind the huge roman columns. The size of the TeaPartay folks wasn't more than 500 or so with fringe like folks having a noticiable presence.

Keith Wilson
04-23-2010, 09:07 AM
Interesting map. Primarily rural or far suburbs, mountain west, Texas, northern Florida.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour/patchworknation/images/map/teaparty_large.jpg

OconeePirate
04-23-2010, 09:15 AM
Interesting. I'm pretty sure that the random patch in mid-east Georgia is my county. This is a county that traditionally has been supported primarily by tax funded jobs, jobs that have been pulled lately due to budget cuts. The primary employers here traditionally have been the multiple prisons, the mental health hospital, and the two colleges.

I guess these are people that either want to see more jobs leave the county or people that are just fired up about losing their government job?


And for those that insist the Teabaggers aren't racially charged... I'm pretty sure that there are only like three or four black people that live in the upper right corner of Georgia there. It kind of surprises me that there aren't more in Macon (right in the middle).

I'm kind of confused about the area around Brunswick (bottom right) and the area around Columbus (mid left). I'm not sure of the general demographics of those areas. It sort of surprises me that there isn't a

Keith Wilson
04-23-2010, 09:26 AM
The one green bit in Minnesota is Wright County, Minneapolis exurbs, part of Michelle Bachmann's district.

BA.Barcolounger
04-23-2010, 09:27 AM
Interesting map. Primarily rural or far suburbs, mountain west, Texas, northern Florida.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour/patchworknation/images/map/teaparty_large.jpg
That dark green blob in upstate NY? That's Hamilton county. I do not think there are more than 10,000 people living in Hamilton county.

So there's about 10 tea party members there.

Keith Wilson
04-23-2010, 09:35 AM
How do they know?Read the article in the link. It's probably reasonably accurate.
To get an understanding of how big the loosely affiliated movement is and where it's based, Patchwork Nation (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/patchworknation/) has combed through online directories to find people who have registered with tea party organizations -- not a perfect system but one that captures the overwhelming majority of registered members.

Bruce Hooke
04-23-2010, 09:58 AM
These two lines from the article are, I think, important to note:


That list of members does not include people who say they sympathize with the tea parties or their goals. Adding in those people would swell the group's ranks and possibly change its geographic distribution.


Even if the 67,000 or so members we have identified overall understates the number of tea party members by a factor of 10, the number would still be fairly small in relation to the electorate as a whole.

htom
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
You can register to be in the Tea Party? Some people are not understanding the idea, and are trying to understand the Tea Party as if it's a normal political party.

BA.Barcolounger
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
That map doesn't predict Brown's win. I suppose November will tell. They sure are trying hard to marginalize the Teapartiers why bother if they are 'fairly small in relation to the electorate as a whole'

Because they are an easy target.

The media LOVES the tea party. Equally, they LOVE politicians getting in feuds with the tea party.

Free advertising.

Bruce Hooke
04-23-2010, 10:10 AM
That map doesn't predict Brown's win. I suppose November will tell. They sure are trying hard to marginalize the Teapartiers why bother if they are 'fairly small in relation to the electorate as a whole'

Who is "they"? As I read it this article as simply doing what any good news article does, which is provide accurate information about something news-worthy. In the article they are up front about the possibly weaknesses in their methodology.

Another point worth noting that is not evident if you are not a regular reader of the Christian Science Monitor is that a major focus of the "patchwork nation" series has been the distribution of different political perspectives across the country, by county "type" (thus the terms like "monied burbs").

BA.Barcolounger
04-23-2010, 10:10 AM
You can register to be in the Tea Party? Some people are not understanding the idea, and are trying to understand the Tea Party as if it's a normal political party.

There are a couple of states where people have formed official Tea Party political parties.

paul oman
04-23-2010, 10:37 AM
we will find out just how big the Tea party supporters really are come Nov.
Many supporters, like myself, are fat, old, lazy pharts that would never ditch work (or nap time) to attend a rally. The question is if for every Tea Party active member is there 10 or 10,000 like me.... Time will tell.

Certainly no way to tell from the media. The right plays them up, the left plays them down. Only thing I can see is that the left seems very afraid of them (always giving them lots of bad press). If left insiders felt it was only 67K folks, they wouldn't waste their breathe/reputation attacking them.

lasted poll (4/23) - 56% think the tea party is a major force, 27% think they are fringe, 11% too honest to have an opinion.

And what is the Tea Party? to me it is anti big government and less government control. To others, it is more or less other things. Folks that want that have always been around, but without a group name. So it comes back again to how big the group has become - are they 10x more upset/st

Bruce Hooke
04-23-2010, 11:18 AM
To me the tea party at least in part comes out of the sector of the population that is always rallying to "throw the bums out," meaning throw out the incumbents and elect someone new. What baffles me about this thinking is that even if they secede in electing someone new, it seems like when the next election comes around they see that new person, like as not, as a "bum" who never should have been elected and needs to be throw out.

It's like the guy who has been married 5 times but has great hopes for his sixth marriage succeeding where the last 5 has failed, even though he has done nothing substantive to try to address the issues that caused the previous 5 marriages to fail.

Captain Blight
04-23-2010, 11:43 AM
To me, it's utterly unfocused and inconsistent anger... directed at easy targets, and manipulated by right wing string-pullers who think that the Tea Party can serve as a front-runner for the broad conservative cause. In other words, Paul, the puppeteer has his hand up your skirt.

When the Tea Party turns it's focus away from whining, and actually supports both solutions and candidates, I'm prepared to accord them respect. Right now, it's nothing more than people who have no solutions, but lots of anger.
I've got a discussion going on another Internet forum I frequent, about the TeaBaggers. I'm fighting an uphill battle against these folks, trying to get them to understand that their mockery of the misspelled signs and what the people are wearing is not helping the Liberal cause one little bit. I can think of no situation where increased snottiness helps even slightly, unless it's in trying to pick a fight.

Consider this: The biggest weapon the Teabaggers have is the notion that we on the Left are a bunch of overeducated Nancies: Soft-handed mommas boys who want to set all the criminals free, who sit beihind a desk all day instead of using their hands, who neither know God nor fear His wrath, who can't enjoy a boloney sandwich and a nice cold Bud but instead have to have their red wine and Brie. We are "inauthentic," and therefore not part of the real America.

I say both sides are misinterpreting the salient tropes, but that's almost neither here nor there. I don't expect to sway one single person away from the Tea Party thing; but what I can do, and intend to do, is quit making fun of the poor spelling and the bad haircuts. I can still mock the sentiment, though, and fully intend to skewer where it's deserved. OMMV.

Rick-Mi
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Only thing I can see is that the left seems very afraid of them (always giving them lots of bad press). If left insiders felt it was only 67K folks, they wouldn't waste their breathe/reputation attacking them.



Judging purely by their actions the left is clearly afraid, VERY AFRAID!

I agree with you Paul, we won't know the true effect until November and beyond. It's just impossible to predict exactly where this movement is headed. One thing that is very encouraging about the Tea Party is a significant number of people are finally standing up for individual liberty and demanding fiscal responsibility in government. Let's hope and pray enough people get involved before it's too late to save America.

Captain Blight
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
"...Save America."

From what? The things that half the population, fully half of your friends and neighbors and co-workers, have clearly stated that they wish to see come to fruition?

What part of 'majority rule' are you not getting here?

John of Phoenix
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Judging purely by their actions the left is clearly afraid, VERY AFRAID!
I'm thrilled that they're out there. "Divide and conquer" at its best.

Mrleft8
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
How do they know? It's not like people are registered to vote as Teapartiers. I suspect more than a little creativity went into that map.

Because Sarah Palin can see them from her house!!! (Duh!):rolleyes:

LeeG
04-23-2010, 03:00 PM
Who was the lefty pol that said many of the dem retirements have been inspired by the Teaparty? Sure is a lot of influence for 67K people.

or if well established Republican pols and conservative media utilize Tea Party populism the influence goes in the other direction. Glenn Beck and FreedomWorks aren't populist, they're corporate.

BA.Barcolounger
04-23-2010, 03:15 PM
Who was the lefty pol that said many of the dem retirements have been inspired by the Teaparty? Sure is a lot of influence for 67K people.

There are more Republicans retiring from the House this year than Democrats.

Lew Barrett
04-23-2010, 07:40 PM
Judging purely by their actions the left is clearly afraid, VERY AFRAID!



The fear card is highly over-rated. You should be harping on the "amazed" card because it is by far more in play. The antics of this group are......amazing.

bobbys
04-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Even on the low end, a recent New York Times/CBS News poll that found 18 percent of Americans identify themselves as Tea Party supporters. That puts the number of Tea Party supporters closer to 40 million than 67,000..

A few days ago a forum member used the 18 percent No. to say they are "unhinged"..

LOL my how the numbers are used depending on ones agenda!

Cuyahoga Chuck
04-23-2010, 09:28 PM
Even on the low end, a recent New York Times/CBS News poll that found 18 percent of Americans identify themselves as Tea Party supporters. That puts the number of Tea Party supporters closer to 40 million than 67,000..

A few days ago a forum member used the 18 percent No. to say they are "unhinged"..

LOL my how the numbers are used depending on ones agenda!





No matter how many there are they, truely, seem a bit unhinged.

Polling says things like;

They dislike big government but love Social Security and Medicare the two biggest programs on the US's social agenda.

They dislike big government but would like their children to work for the government.

It goes on like this. I don't remember all of the points but for each thing they dislike there is a countervailling item they love. They want to get rid of big government but don't seem ready to give up anything. For revolutionaries, they see too strongly attached to the good life.
All the Democrats have to say is, "be careful what you wish for".

Bill Huson
04-23-2010, 09:33 PM
I think the dark green in coastal North Carolina is Craven County or one of it's neighbors. Yes, I'm living in Goober Central.

Canoeyawl
04-23-2010, 10:03 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/images/2010/04/19/cartoons/100419_cartoon_7_a14902_p465.gif

Lew Barrett
04-23-2010, 10:28 PM
I'm thrilled that they're out there. "Divide and conquer" at its best.


Even on the low end, a recent New York Times/CBS News poll that found 18 percent of Americans identify themselves as Tea Party supporters. That puts the number of Tea Party supporters closer to 40 million than 67,000..

A few days ago a forum member used the 18 percent No. to say they are "unhinged"..

LOL my how the numbers are used depending on ones agenda!







Let's run with these two comments for a moment. 67,000 seems mighty light to me anyway. So let's give them 20%, or so, about 40,000,000.

Now let's have an independent Tea Party running candidates independent of the Reps; say Ron Paul and/or...um.....Sarah Palin.

Where does such a scenario lead us?

Shall I just jump to the final?

If the goal is to elect national level folks, the right would be better off if the TP represented only 67,000 voters since it would split the vote less.

With the current numbers, the more numbers you give the TP, the more candidates of the Republican party have to "fear" if relevance is the measure.

The real question is: Does the TP represent the new face of the Republican Party? And if it does, how will it win elections with 40,000,000 adherents? And if it ain't, how will Republicans win office with the base distracted in this fashion?

If you are a liberal, the more you turn this one over and examine it, the more you'd like to see those 40,000,000 staunch TPers.

It could well be that the best liberal strategy is to just let (even encourage to the extent possible) the TPers "TP" the Republican Party until it comes to it's senses and offers some reasonable, loyal, opposition. Loyal to the nation at the least.

Unless the right solves this riddle (and I don't say it couldn't, but it sure looks grim) it should continue to get used to being out of power.

It's a shame, because I am one liberal who doesn't think Obama has hit every issue as promised. A great opposition would be so valuable right now.

But the right is giving us garbage, which is why it looks so fractured and dazed. Good luck with this one fellas. History isn't on the side of the thirds.

ishmael
04-24-2010, 06:51 PM
I don't know about this stuff. Statistical projects are often innacurate and based on questionable assumptions.

Looking at the map, I live in one of the blue zones. I walk this road pretty regularly, and have met most of the people. Maybe just an occasional hello, but I don't sense a bunch of radicals. Just folks, trying pay their bills and raise their children, as free as possible of all levels of government.

The area is fairly conservative, but not to the point of denying our need for government services. They just don't want to pull a permit, and pay a tax every time they turn around to build a small tool shed. They want the schools for their kids to be decent, and are willing to pay for decent service from government.

As I've said several times before, the psychology around this moves in cycles, and just now people are fed up. I don't have any major complaints. My property taxes seem a bit honorous, but it takes money for public education and other services. I don't begrudge government taxing me. If you think the ones making the decisions are making bad decisions, get involved. I can't remember the last time I was to a town meeting.

Captain Intrepid
04-24-2010, 06:55 PM
Most teapartiers aren't radicals, most just swallow everything the conservative edu-tainment industry feeds them without thinking. Very few people, liberal or conservative actually look at their information sources with a critical eye, and that's a problem when your information source cares more about truthiness than truth.

bobbys
04-24-2010, 07:25 PM
No matter how many there are they, truely, seem a bit unhinged.

Polling says things like;

They dislike big government but love Social Security and Medicare the two biggest programs on the US's social agenda.

They dislike big government but would like their children to work for the government.

It goes on like this. I don't remember all of the points but for each thing they dislike there is a countervailling item they love. They want to get rid of big government but don't seem ready to give up anything. For revolutionaries, they see too strongly attached to the good life.
All the Democrats have to say is, "be careful what you wish for"..

Really, I have never seen or been polled about giving up the "good Life" or countervailing items, Where did you see this poll, In the Huff Post or Democratic underground?

bobbys
04-24-2010, 07:30 PM
Let's run with these two comments for a moment. 67,000 seems mighty light to me anyway. So let's give them 20%, or so, about 40,000,000.

Now let's have an independent Tea Party running candidates independent of the Reps; say Ron Paul and/or...um.....Sarah Palin.

Where does such a scenario lead us?

Shall I just jump to the final?

If the goal is to elect national level folks, the right would be better off if the TP represented only 67,000 voters since it would split the vote less.

With the current numbers, the more numbers you give the TP, the more candidates of the Republican party have to "fear" if relevance is the measure.

The real question is: Does the TP represent the new face of the Republican Party? And if it does, how will it win elections with 40,000,000 adherents? And if it ain't, how will Republicans win office with the base distracted in this fashion?

If you are a liberal, the more you turn this one over and examine it, the more you'd like to see those 40,000,000 staunch TPers.

It could well be that the best liberal strategy is to just let (even encourage to the extent possible) the TPers "TP" the Republican Party until it comes to it's senses and offers some reasonable, loyal, opposition. Loyal to the nation at the least.

Unless the right solves this riddle (and I don't say it couldn't, but it sure looks grim) it should continue to get used to being out of power.

It's a shame, because I am one liberal who doesn't think Obama has hit every issue as promised. A great opposition would be so valuable right now.

But the right is giving us garbage, which is why it looks so fractured and dazed. Good luck with this one fellas. History isn't on the side of the thirds..

I think i understand what your saying but the talk is no one wants a 3d party, As of yet i have no idea who the front runners are so its to hard to say. Your dream may be there is going to be a spoiler but i would not count on it.

Cuyahoga Chuck
04-24-2010, 07:56 PM
.

Really, I have never seen or been polled about giving up the "good Life" or countervailing items, Where did you see this poll, In the Huff Post or Democratic underground?

Ahoj, Bobby. Jak sa mas'?

I think I heard it on Diane Rehm's radio program. Andrew Kohut, a top level pollster was illucidating on how widespread he found Teaparty acceptance. Someone else jumped in with what I posted. I.e. that those folks long for things that are often rather vague in concept and many are diametrically opposed to each other. A kind of have your cake and eat it syndrome.
You may have noticed, there are numerous states that have started massive lay-offs of teachers because of the lack of funds. Can you imagine what it would be like if the federal government cut off their funds as well?
The idea that there is some sweet land where everybody pays a pittance of taxes and everyone lives happily ever after is malarkey. If you desire the amenities like public education, treated water, sewer systems, electricity,super highways, etc., you have to pony up.
America ponied up to dam the Columbia River. Washington and Oregon got a big present that they could never have achieved on their own. You people may now have to pony up to help get health insurance to 30 million folks doing without.

bobbys
04-24-2010, 08:44 PM
Ahoj, Bobby. Jak sa mas'?

I think I heard it on Diane Rehm's radio program. Andrew Kohut, a top level pollster was illucidating on how widespread he found Teaparty acceptance. Someone else jumped in with what I posted. I.e. that those folks long for things that are often rather vague in concept and many are diametrically opposed to each other. A kind of have your cake and eat it syndrome.
You may have noticed, there are numerous states that have started massive lay-offs of teachers because of the lack of funds. Can you imagine what it would be like if the federal government cut off their funds as well?
The idea that there is some sweet land where everybody pays a pittance of taxes and everyone lives happily ever after is malarkey. If you desire the amenities like public education, treated water, sewer systems, electricity,super highways, etc., you have to pony up.
America ponied up to dam the Columbia River. Washington and Oregon got a big present that they could never have achieved on their own. You people may now have to pony up to help get health insurance to 30 million folks doing without. .

Yes thank you, However the Dam example does not fit here as the Democratic Governor would like to see all the Dams gone, Tis true they destroyed the finest fish runs ever in existence of which as a Salmon fisherman i pay the price for.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-24-2010, 11:04 PM
Judging purely by their actions the left is clearly afraid, VERY AFRAID!

Maybe not the left, but people who value reality and reasonable sane judgement are a little scared of them.:rolleyes:;);)

These people are not very bright. :confused:

Shang
04-25-2010, 11:01 AM
Tea Party ignoramuses

http://img.slate.com/media/60/1_TN.jpg

"The Tea Party's Toxic Take on History: Ignore it at your peril."
By Ron Rosenbaum
http://www.slate.com/id/2251669/

Lew Barrett
04-25-2010, 11:30 AM
It satisfies Rick's sense of his reality to play the fear card. It's one that has a lot of currency and effect on him, so he thinks we all feel and are motivated the same way.

As you listen to the whingers as they describe the current administrations policies, you realize it is fear run rampant.

The true face of fear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJkOz3afFY&feature=PlayList&p=EAF2566D3B708E42&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=27)

Rick-Mi; you are projecting!

Cuyahoga Chuck
04-25-2010, 01:02 PM
.

Yes thank you, However the Dam example does not fit here as the Democratic Governor would like to see all the Dams gone, Tis true they destroyed the finest fish runs ever in existence of which as a Salmon fisherman i pay the price for.

There's an example of "be careful what you wish for". But the dams were built by a government trying to bring big benefits to your area. And it did just that. It'sad there is a down side but that is the way of the world and not part of this arguement.
What I am talking about is promoting a program that is loaded with downsides from the very beginning. In the case of the Teaparty folks they champion ideas that could come back and bite them. There is no way that "you can cut everyone's benefits but mine" is going to work. The monies that the federal government hands out are part of our economy. One of the genius strokes of Social Security was that it made consumers out of people who were able to buy very little. Reversing government spending drastically is not going to happen. It would cut the legs out from under our economy.
And making common cause with birthers, racists, militias and God knows what else is a sure way for your personal agenda to get diluted and cast aside.

bobbys
04-25-2010, 01:48 PM
There's an example of "be careful what you wish for". But the dams were built by a government trying to bring big benefits to your area. And it did just that. It'sad there is a down side but that is the way of the world and not part of this arguement.
What I am talking about is promoting a program that is loaded with downsides from the very beginning. In the case of the Teaparty folks they champion ideas that could come back and bite them. There is no way that "you can cut everyone's benefits but mine" is going to work. The monies that the federal government hands out are part of our economy. One of the genius strokes of Social Security was that it made consumers out of people who were able to buy very little. Reversing government spending drastically is not going to happen. It would cut the legs out from under our economy.
And making common cause with birthers, racists, militias and God knows what else is a sure way for your personal agenda to get diluted and cast aside..

This is indeed alarming news, I had no idea there were so many scalawags in my midst.

Being as you have access to the polls and numbers what are the correct amounts of.

birthers.

Racists.

Militias.

God knows what else.

And where are they located so i can steer clear.

Or is this just a rant ?