Modern small trailerable Trimaran designs?

[TomMcKinney]

I was reading a sailing world article about the International canoe- very fast and very cool, especially with the new asymetrical. However- way to much acrobatics for me- But , I thought, what if instead of that seat, it was a tri- with mesh nets- large enoguh amas and enough spread could make it pretty easy to sail (I think) with only one guy. Anybody have suggestions for an existing design that might be similar- 16 to 18 ft 1 to 2 man trailerable tri? Plywood or strip plank hulls with epoxy? Maybe even do my own mast ala "endagered species"?? My day dreams await your comments
Tom

[Steve Lansdowne]

As I recall MAIB had a series of articles on such designs a year or so ago. There is an online index to this that could help you locate them.

[G. Schollmeier]

Kurt Hughes might have something you like.

Tri (http://www.multihulldesigns.com/)

Gary :D

[chrisk]

You might want to checkout Selway-Fisher in the new designs area. He is working on a stitch-n-glue IC10 and the top view sure looks like there is an outrigger connected to it:

Selway Fisher IC10 (http://www.selway-fisher.com/New2001.htm#IC10)

But you should ask him to make sure. Maybe once you got the hang of it you'd want to take the outrigger's off ! :D

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[brian.cunningham]

There's been some good discussion on the subject over on the multihull boat builders list.
http://www.multihullboatbuilder.com

The ones listed above came up, in addition to...

Ian Farrier has come up with a new version of an old design
f-boat trimarans (http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/index.html)

Chris White also has a smaller tri the Discovery 20 (http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/discovery20/index.php)
http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/images/discovery20_p.jpg

SWIFTWOOD ( my boat ) started off as a kayak with a CLC's SailRig kit (http://www.clcboats.com/sailrig.php3?cart_id=CREATE)
http://www.clcboats.com/images/sailrig3.jpg

[chrisk]

On closer inspection Selway fisher's IC10 seems to have wings not akas and amas.

They also have a JC10 trainer which is a stitch & glue 16 footer with only 5 sq meters of sail rather then 10 and a very simple sliding seat. Maybe the smaller sail area would make things a bit less wild.

I also ran across the Fulmar 19:

Fulmar 19 (http://www.multihulls.com/dealers/fulmar/fulmar.htm)

It's a fiberglass product, but sounds kind of like what you are asking for. It seems like a neat concept that could be fun. Maybe their is a similar design you could build around somewhere.

Chris Kottaridis (chrisk@quietwind.net)

[Beowolf]

Someone mentioned Kurt Hughes already. He has a 16 foot trimaran that I still pour over the pictures of on a regular basis. It pretty much fits your criterea to the last detail. THe illustration actually shows a single sailor hiked out on the windward ama. I'm sure that with two bodies on board, you could have a seat though.

The rig and sails do look mighty costly though. I guess that speed ain't cheap.

Jeff.

[Chris Ostlind]

A few years back I had a nice conversation with John Marples about his design work on the Fulmar 19. He left me with the impression that the boat, as a concept, was very exciting project with which to be involved. He did, however, have a few caveats as to the final form which the production boat took.

Overall he feels that it's too heavy and ultimately, over-complicated with the late addition of the pedal drive system.

I've never been able to get a ride in one of the Fulmars and now they've been taken out of production by the company in British Columbia who has the tooling.

Seems to be an excellent opportunity to design a boat to fill this exciting product niche.

Chris

[JimConlin]

Dick Newick has redesigned the ever-popular Tremolino.

Contact him at His site (http://www.wingo.com/newick/)
Phone is 207 439 3768

[Todd Bradshaw]

You could always go really small. I've always wanted one of these, which look like a blast.
http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=ccamberdaysailers.html&&cart_id=7232055_4230#micro-moxie

[John Gearing]

I always did like the Fulmar but didn't know that John Marples was involved with it. I wonder if he's designing a new version for the homebuilder that will improve on the one he drew for the original company?

[TomMcKinney]

Thanks so much for all the ideas and keep them coming. I really like the idea of the tremelo- recycle an old H-16 or if I built a constatnt camber mold, I could build other boats as well (upon paying the design fee, that is- gotta support Intellectual property or no one designs new boats). So many boats, so little time

[WWheeler]

ahem, if trimaran is, like the Tremolino, 18' in beam, how do you trailer it? do the amas or outriggers fold out, or do you have to rig them. Given the size of the mast etc. just getting in the water could be a day's work.

[brian.cunningham]

Some are demoutable, if the parts are light, like a kayak this is not too bad to setup.

Some fold
http://www.f-boat.com/media/history/trail18.jpg
http://www.f-boat.com/media/trimarans/Sauterelle.jpg
This can be done on the water, so you can fit it up a ramp or into a narrow slip.

[Todd Bradshaw]

We used to get plenty of funny looks motoring around with the amas folded in on our Farrier tri. Got pulled over once because our registration numbers were on the main hull and the officer thought they should be on the amas where they would show-up better. I pulled a couple bolts, folded one side up (which put the spot he had picked for the numbers under water) and said "how about now?" He grumbled something and went away.

[brian.cunningham]

LOL :D

[David Geiss]

I also had no idea that J Marples had a role in the creation of the Fulmar 19. My understanding is that John Sinclair, a maritime lawyer in the Pacific NW, was the moving force behind the boat.
Perhaps he hired J Marples to come up woth the design and then the two hired Campbell Black in BC to do the tooling and manufacture the boat.

Campbell told me that the design was inspired by the sailing canoes of Bali. In reading through Canoes of Oceania, I can see that pretty well.

I was skeptical on the pedal drive also. I had a failure of the bevel gear in year one, replaced it, learned to maintain the unit (darn simple) and I think it add a great dimension to the boat. As far as weignt is concerned, the whole boat with rig is approx 250lbs. I'm still, in my mid 40's able to haul it up a sand beach solo. The boat continues to amaze me (except stright before the wind).

Does anyone know Sinclair.....would he sell the tooling. The boat cold molded would IMHO be outrageous. The pedal drive could be lost and it can be paddled in most circumstances anyway, especially with two onboard.

Are there any other owners of the 21 boat production run on the forum or known by any of the forum members. I'd like to be intouch with other owners. I'm guessing that I'm the only one in NJ and the rest are sprinkled throughout the Northwest?

David

[brian.cunningham]

Have you tried posing on the multihull boat builder mailing lit?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multihull_boatbuilder/

or the sailing canoe mailing list?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailing_canoes/

Here's a couple of old messages



From: David E Sherman/DESQ (desq@kingcon.com)
To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue Sep 16 2003, 4:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Fulmar session

Brian...give me a clue as to what you're building .........I need some
impetus. Thurs/Fri wind /rain will give me a chance to sit down and
write something more comprehensive about the Fulmar experience.

Pulled it out today as everyone has decided to play it safe
notwithstanding apparent Isabel course to NC/Va. The surf has been
pretty normal here and Barnegat Inlet was plenty calm today with the NW
winds (at least on the ebb). Might have kicked up with the flood tide
but did not see it. Ocean plenty warm here still.

Had the Fulmar today in the Gunning River and sailed the Limestone
Channel. It was puffy, blowing mostly 10-12 knots but with bouts of
15-17knots. The Fulmar heads up in a gust and to derive speed out of the
boat you have to keep the helm to leeward. Bringing the centerboard up
on a reach or beat does not appreciably reduce the weather helm....can't
figure that out. Think maybe the mast could have been mounted a few
inches fore...or could use a rig with the CE slightly further fore.

Did a fair amount of downwind tacking home and noticed something
interesting. With the centreboard more fully deployed, it more easily
keeps a course to leeward...lift the board and the boat develops
immediate weather helm.

The boat has a nice sensitive feel and whenever you think mastery has
arrived, you learn something new. One thing I pay attention to is not
overpowering the vessel. It's tempting to let all the canvas fly. With
the unstayed mast and loose foot, you can tell when you have too much
sail when a little pocket develops in the belly of the sail...you'll
also see a windsurfer like bend in the spar. Reef in 10% at a time and
the pocket in the belly disappears and the boats actually moves faster.
Not sure if this is peculiar to a tri such as the Fulmar or simply a
matter of good sense and efficiency.

This is a dry boat in most inland conditions and offshore in big
rollers. In any type of short steep chop, be prepared to get wet. It
behaves much more like a monohull than a catamaran and coming about is
straightforward. just drive the boat upwing and haul in the main and 9
time out of 10 you'll avoid irons.

There is plenty of storage and reserve bouyancy. Have ssailed it with
three, even 4 persons. Two is about right if it's blowing as you can
dispatch your crew to hang out on the upwind ama...by sialing the Fulmar
a little flatter, you'll derive good speed.

One complaint on the Fulmar...the centerboard trunk is prone to jamming.
I deal with it by leaving the board out just about an inch when moored
or trailered. Just takes a little attention to get it to clear the
trailer bunks when launching. In warm conditions, no big deal as a
little yank from below the hull dislodges the CB, but in colder
conditions, it's a pain. Also, the boat may have been billed as a
cartopper......not happening...galvanized trailer a must IMHO. But you
can tow w/ a Tercel...Campbell proved it by coming all the way from BC
to the Chesapeake.

The outdrive, human powered is slick and full of costly engineering I
imagine. The beauty is that any determined owner can completely break it
down and rebuild/reinstall. That's a good feeling. Parts availability,
that's another story. I will at some point soon try to make contact with
Sinclair about the tooling.

Does anyone out there know of any other Fulmar owners..there are approx
20 in existence and I'd like to make contact. Thanks all for your
interest. I would welcome anyone in the East who would like to sail it.

From: Chris O (Chris@Wedgesail.com)
To: sailing_canoes@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue Sep 16 2003, 7:54 AM PDT
Subject: Re: [sailing_canoes] Fulmar session


Last week sailed out of Barnegat Inlet a handful of time in the Fulmar 19
(tri) and there's nothing like groundswell and a fresh SE afternoon breeze
to make one
feel alive.

David

Great observation, David. We all wish we had more opportunities to feel
the same things as you describe.

So what is the Fulmar like to sail? Some time back I had a long discussion
with John Marples regarding the design and eventual finished result of the
Fulmar. He thought it had gotten too heavy with all the things that kept
getting added-on and that process had degraded the finished product.

Your take.

I realize that this is ever-so-slightly off topic as the Fulmar, on its
best day, is not a sailing canoe in the strict sense; more a sea kayak.
Write me off list, David, if the subject has gotten you adrift as well.

Chris


[ 10-17-2005, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: brian.cunningham ]

[David Geiss]

David Geiss aka David E Sherman!
Where are these other other Fulmar owners?
Putting them together sounds tantamount to hosting a hermit's convention?

Chris O.........when/if you come East, you are, of course, heartily invited to sail the Fulmar!!!!!!!

David

[David Geiss]

Pre-senior moment? Totally escaped me that Chris mentioned J Marples was involved.........

[pippo]

Here (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004561) is a recent discussion on a nice design by Chris Ostlind.

There's a nice 18' trimaran designed by Norman Cross, nicely described here (http://www.angelfire.com/in/shideler/sail.html) and here. (http://mysite.verizon.net/res78939/id3.html)

Finally, this document (http://www.edhorstmanmultihulldesigns.com/specs/TRI-18_3view.pdf) describes a nice 18' trimaran by Ed Hortsmann.

[PVanderwaart]

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html

http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/Ctc1.jpg

I suspect the $18000 kit price is a daydream, but you could ask.

[Aramas]

The Farrier boats have a very convenient folding system, but it limits beam and float bouyancy, making for unnecessarily dramatic sailing habits. They actually heel about as much as monohulls, and throw water everywhere when they get going. Using carbon sandwich construction can lower the weight enough to bring the ratios up to more normal levels, but costs an arm and a leg.

There are other designers that have produced demountable designs that are superior in every way except convenience. It depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice (and pay) for that convenience. Last I heard Farrier wanted around $10k just for the folding mechanism on a home built 25 footer.

Throughout the 80's and 90's, Ian Farrier took every opportunity to write to multihull publications, belittling the work of other designers and crowing over his own one-and-only design (offered in a range of sizes). I couldn't help but develop a dislike towards him.

The Grainger 075 Mk II is (imo) a much better boat than anything Farrier ever drew. His 24' flat out racer (sort of a tri version of the Melges 24) would sail circles around Farrier's best efforts.

[ 10-18-2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

"but it limits beam and float bouyancy, making for unnecessarily dramatic sailing habits. They actually heel about as much as monohulls, and throw water everywhere when they get going."

Where on earth did you come up with this gem of misinformation - because it's certainly not from experience? I used to own a Farrier trimaran. We spent one fourth of July afternoon sailing when the local FAA flight service station was measuring the winds at 28 knots gusting to 32 knots. We had the full main and working jib up and were literally sailing circles around friends who were plugging along in reefed-down, heeled-over monohulls. Our boat behaved beautifully. It was dry, tacked and jibed easily and probably never heeled more than about ten degrees. One of my only complaints about the boat in general was that it never heeled enough to feel like my mental vision of a sailboat, but If I wanted another trimaran it would certainly be another Farrier. They're beautiful boats and surprisingly well engineered and built for fiberglass production models.

"crowing over his own one-and-only design (offered in a range of sizes)"

This is also BS. Farrier offered a series of hard-chine plywood trimarans (called Trailer-tris)in various sizes for home builders. Then there were the Tramp and Eagle, which were Australian and American-built, 19' semi hard-chined versions of a production fiberglass trimaran as well as the F-series of boats, similar to those shown above and originally built by Corsair Marine (F-27, F-24, F-31, F-28) He also sold plans for cedar strip or vertical foam-strip models, the F-25 and F-9A and later authorized a group of builders in Colorado to sell vacuum-bagged, carbon composite kits for a modidied F-25. Farrier boats do all have a similar design style, as do those of many other designers (take Crowninshield, for example) but your "one-and-only design" statement plainly shows your ignorance on the subject.

Folks, if you're interested in getting an accurate evaluation of Farrier's boats, talk to somebody who actually owns one.

[ 10-18-2005, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[kiwi2]

I second that! Farrier boats (the modern plastic ones) are great performers. Of course I only got to go out on a trial sail in the bay of La Rochelle with an ugly chop and 4 gusting 5 Beaufort so what would I know!

I am designing a stitch and glue hull to put between the hulls of my LB15 beach cat. I have a rough idea of what I want to do. It will be documented on the amateurboatbuilding.com forum (I'm the new editor of the site) once I get my head around the Free!ship design software.

Tony

[David Geiss]

I am mesmerized by the Farriers as well but like the ability of just sticking on the mast and going. Plus, I can muscle aroung a craft on the order of the Fulmar real easy.

I once came across a fellow with a trailerable Corsair and man that looked like a lot of rigging for an afternoon of sailing.

Now, having mega funds, a mooring or better yet a boat lift, the Farrier would talk to me.

With the Fulmar, what you lack in funds you just make up for in nerve.....being out in Block Island Sound a few times teaches that all is possible in a small boat given the right preparation, decent skills and perhaps a little good fortune.
Have to say that the CLC sail kit I am putting together for my open canoes will never see that kind of territory. Intrepid yes...crazy no!

[Todd Bradshaw]

Corsair's systems were pretty well thought out and most of the rigging stayed connected for trailering. Someplace I have one of their old promotional videos that showed John Walton rigging his F-27 from driving up to the ramp to pulling the boat up on the beach, ready to raise the sails, in under 15 minutes. The mast caddy on the stern was a roller and you simply walked the mast aft until you could drop the butt onto the mast step, connected the headstay to the trailer's bow winch, got out and cranked the mast up with no need to have somebody guiding it as it went up. Then it would just be a matter of connecting and tightening the forestay, pinning the running backstays in place and plugging the roller-furled main's gooseneck assembly into the mast. Compared to most boats in their size range, assembly and launching is a snap. We used to keep our tri on a mooring here in town and would generally launch it with the amas folded in, the mast down and the wires and other stuff still bundled with velcro strips. We would immediately drop the motor and head out to our mooring to get out of the traffic at the ramp and then unfold the hulls, raise the mast using one of the genoa winches and finish rigging out on the buoy. It was a nice option to have available, as was being able to easily lower and then re-raise the mast out on the water if you needed to replace the windex, change the bulb in the anchor light, etc. They're obviously a lot more complex and bulky than something like the Fulmar, but for their size, they're extremely well planned-out and surprisingly simple to assemble and rig.

The one shown above in the big photo is essentially the new generation of the cuddy-cabin-sized boat that we used to own and much more elegant looking and refined. It's nice to see that it's finally available. If I was in the market for a new trimaran, it would be very tempting.

[David Geiss]

That's a very informative post on the rigging of the Corsairs. Does not sound so bad!

It occurs to me that I've never seen a trimaran cat kecth rigged. Seems as if that would be a pretty flexible set up with unstayed masts fore and aft.

That's pretty much what I envision with the CLC rig I am building to be used with a Lincoln sailing canoe of approx 16.5' loa. I'll run either my fully batttened rig of 40 sq ft or ACA lateen (44 sq ft) fore and a smaller sharpie rig (sprit boom leg of mutton) of about 25 sq ft aft which I can simply sheet to the stern as it is self vanging. I'll be able to move the leeboard thwart forward when using the fore rig only. If had to, I could place the sharpie rig fore, and stow the larger rig in a blow, since all spars interchange in identically sized partners.

Whaddayathinks?

[Aramas]

Lol - The only difference between Farrier's various designs are the cabin layouts, size, and materials. His only innovation in the past twenty years was to round the edges on the plastic versions. Calling them different designs is laughable.

Do your research. The folding system does restrict beam and float bouyancy, and they do heel more than wider designs with high bouyancy floats. You can't argue with geometry.

Imo Farrier is a ****head, and his boats are crap. Other people's opinions may differ. I can live with that, although it seems that our bellicose Todd cannot. Farrier's toy tris have their fans, but then so does the Weekender or any number of tupperware tubs. I expect that a lot of people have fun with theirs, and good for them. They're welcome to them.

[ 10-19-2005, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

I'm laughing out loud, too - but it's at your obvious lack of knowledge and experience. Every time you open your mouth with more unsubstantiated bull the hole just gets deeper.

I understand the beam/float buoyancy geometry just fine. In addition, and unlike you, I've actually owned one of the boats in question and can testify that it worked quite well, and ours wasn't even as beamy as the current generation. I certainly don't remember ever thinking "Damn, I wish this thing was wider!" - though I do remember a couple times in tight quarters or congested mooring fields where I wished it was narrower.

I can also tell you from first hand experience that your original comment about F-boats heeling anything like monohulls is just plain wrong. If you had ever sailed on one, you would know it's wrong, too. Sure, they're going to heel more than they would if they were wider (you had to do research to figure that one out???). It's a trade-off to maintain legal trailering beam combined with fast assembly at the ramp and the ability to quickly fold or unfold one or both amas on the water if needed, but it's nothing like sailing a monohull. I could set an open can of soda on the aft deck of our boat, above the lazarette, and just leave it there when the knot meter was reading fifteen knots of boatspeed. I could tack or jibe and it would still be there after we were established on the new course.

For those who haven't sailed a multihull, one of the true hassles that comes with the increased beam of a big catamaran or almost any trimaran is that the average marina has few places to put you whether you're just staying for a night or interested in renting a slip for the whole season. Farrier boats (models up to around 31' LOA) are well known for their ability to be folded quickly and easily into a package which will fit into a standard slip (or on a standard-width boat trailer - or in a garage space if the door is tall enough, a normal driveway, etc.) This does put some limitations on unfolded boat beam and float volume (the folded floats have to tuck-in under the "wings" of the main hull) but there are hundreds of owners of these designs who seem perfectly happy with their boat's beam and it's floats. The ability to fold the F-boats is one of the key reasons that there ARE hundreds of owners in the first place. Aramas seems to think that this is some sort of a problem or design defect, though I'm not sure why.

I once took my 65-year-old mother in law out for an afternoon on our trimaran. She's terrified of water and you would have to drug her and tie her up to get her on a monohull. She was not the least bit thrilled about the idea of going sailing, but ended up sitting calmly on the cockpit seat watching the scenery go by and knitted me a pair of socks while we were sailing.

As for Ian Farrier, I have spoken to him several times on the phone and he always seemed personable and quite interested in putting out the best product possible. I bounced ideas off of him about certain modifications I was interested in trying and he was always willing to discuss it at length if needed. I don't think he'll lose any sleep over the fact that you don't seem to like him.

There are a number of good multihull designers out there and Farrier is just one of them. You're right in that his boats are all similar. But when a guy can design trimarans with trailerable beam, 15 minute assembly at the ramp, capability to cross the Atlantic (which has been done in an F-27) and have a worldwide group of owners who love their boats and want even more models, I don't think you can fault him. If you can design a better boat, I'm all ears. It would be nice to see you produce more than just hot air for a change.

[Tom Lathrop]

Todd,

I would like to insert a question in between back and forth body slams with Aramas.

My son, who presently has a Chris White 20 footer and my older Grand Slam 7.9 that became too much for my old bones to handle, has suggested that I might want to build him one of Farrier's new 22's. I would only consider working with the kit since I do have another life. Ian's information is only just now evolving and the kit is not yet available, I think.

I have also contacted Ian as far back as the TT18 in the early 1970's and found him very reasonable. I have also had a hand in building a racing 20 footer (not Ian's) and have done extensive repairs on a 24 plus sailing on a 24 and a 31 so am not a complete virgin to Farrier's multihulls.

No matter how it is cut though, a tri is three hulls and that, plus the connecting akas, makes for complexity, cost and building/assembly time.

Now for the question, have you (or anyone with constructive information) looked closely at the 22 kit concept and what do you think of it? The new main hull connector seems to be better from a construction standpoint than the old one.

Oh, and PV, if you could reduce the size of that photo, we could read this thread much better :D :D Thanks.

[ 10-20-2005, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[brian.cunningham]

If you like F-boats and what a cheaper one built in wood, take a look at the Scarab stich&glue adaption of the design

http://www.kendrickdesign.com.au/scarab_670.htm
http://www.kendrickdesign.com.au/images/RM%2003.jpg
http://www.kendrickdesign.com.au/images/Kari%202.JPG

You can also strip plank the original design

The f-boat design is great for a fast setup, and folding it on the water. So you can store it at a regular slip or take it up a narrow ramp.

A trimaran will be lighter and stronger if you don't fold it though. One solution is to fold the trailer instead.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Kendrick has a 3-Meter, too, which have always looked like a lot of fun.

Tom, I don't know any more about the F-22 than you see on the website. Any way you slice it, it's going to be a fair amount of work just due to the boat's complexity, though I doubt you would run into many "head-scratching" problems. During our trimaran period I bought an early set of F-25A plans with thoughts of replacing our boat with a bigger one. What arrived were pages and pages of really good drawings and a pile of booklets and manuals which explained the construction down to the smallest details and reinforcing patches (they were plans for wood-strip-core/fiberglass-skin building) along with video tapes and several years worth of updates when some builder someplace figured out a better way to do anything. I would assume the kits will have similar documentation, but you won't have to build the hulls and decks from scratch. I suppose my gut reaction with any project like this might be to wait a year or two and let other builders shake down the plans and design for any bugs, but as boat plans and kits go, it's likely to already be very well thought out by the time the kits hit the street.

[Tom Lathrop]

Thanks Todd,

That is my take also, although I'm not getting any younger for such projects. I do think that the
homebuilt/trailerable trimaran world is far better off with Ian than without him. In my town, there is a 31, factory 27 and has also been a Tramp and a 24. All seem to be happy with them.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Tom Lathrop:


Oh, and PV, if you could reduce the size of that photo, we could read this thread much better :D :D Thanks.If you click on the "printer friendly" button on the bottom left it woll make physically reading this thread easier.

As to reading the vitriol between Todd Bradshaw and Aramas, I wish they had a button to clear that.

Seems to me that they're both saying the foldable tri's are a compromise. Todd thinks they're acceptable compromise, Aramas doesn't.

No need to raise your Vakas guys.

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
No need to raise your Vakas guys.LOL :D

[David Geiss]

This thread prompted me to pull out a copy of "Racing and Cruising Trimarans", Robert Harris, 1970 (Charles Scribner's Sons.....Library of Congress Catatlog Card Number 70-85258.

Some of it may be dated at this point but it covers most of mid to late 20th century tri hull pioneers, including accounts of various races and ocean crossings.

My tri hull experience being limited to sailing just the Fulmar, I take in all the design and seaworthiness discussion with an open mind but w/o the benefit of real world experience in larger tris as described in this book.

I really like the early chapters describing the work of Tchetchet and Piver. It was apparently Tchetchet who came up with the term "trimaran"........tri (three) and maram (log in the ancient Tamil language).

It's got great drawings of various tris and some very good b/w photos of tris under press of sail. Highly reccomended.

I just two days ago started my CLC MK II sail rig using 4mm sapele for the hull panels and 3mm sapele for the decks. Need to do a little geometry/lofting to make sure the akas put the floats where they should be as the aka plan assumes use of a kayak as opposed to an open canoe. The thought of sailing from a kayak cockpit a la foot steering does not tantalize me. I think for my style of cruising the open canoe wil be a lot more flexible and comfortable to boot.

David

[brian.cunningham]

A real good book on general Multihull design is Chris White's "THE CRUISING MULTIHULL"
http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/images/scover.jpeg
http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/books.php

Table of Contents:

Introduction
Chapter 1 - A Boat for Cruising
Chapter 2 - The Specifics of Multihull Design
Chapter 3 - The Trimaran
Chapter 4 - The Catmaran
Chapter 5 - Resisting Leeway
Chapter 6 - Rudders and Steering
Chapter 7 - Rigs
Chapter 8 - Auxiliary Power
Chapter 9 - The Specifics of Multihull Construction
Chapter 10 - Safty and Seamanship
Appendix A - Catalog of Production Multihulls
Appendix B - Review of Multihull Designers
Appendix C - Two Designs from the Author
Another good FAQ is here:
http://www.themultihullsource.com/frames/HomeFAQs.html

Keep in mind that tris based on kayaks and canoes are a lot different from even the slightly bigger ones. They have advantages and disadventages. They're not as fast, but can go places the bigger ones can't. They also weigh a lot less.

[Dann]

Well I am very new to sailing and wood boats but I found a 17'Piver Trimaran on e-bay and was hoping someone here could tell me where the person got the plans for it. I am a competent wood worker and have studied the stitch and glue books so I am hoping to build something like this. If any one has the information it might be what the original post question is looking for as well.
Dann

[Ric_Bergstrom]

I used to race with Bill Homewood around the bouys in the Chesapeake on THe Third Turtle a Newick design 30 footer.

What a super guy and awesome sailor. ANyone has done the OSTAR race has my vote for hero status.

Fond memories of spanking ANY boat that got near us.

<1>
Started last fleet in the Governors cup (annapolis to St marys MD maybe 70-90 miles?) Finished close to top 10 overall. Passed several hundred other boats at night!!! FUN

We would just duck them since NO ONE ever expected a boat to cross with near double the speed of their own boat.

<2>
Finished a race and an Olson 30 challenged us for a quick race with the winner getting the beer.

We accepted (just two of us on board), put the autohelm on, got a beer, climbed out on the windward ama, sailed through their lee and left them behind...never did collect.

<3> racing in a real blow. Trying to take a leak . Boat goin so fast that there was no freekin way I could "relax" enough to get going. We were pusing 19knots most of the time!!! What a sled!!!

Not much of a cruiser, like sleeping in a canoe!!!

You design a trailerable fun tri....that doesn't cost F22 money. I want one. Tremolino had crossed my ind several times.

Ric

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by Dann:
Well I am very new to sailing and wood boats but I found a 17'Piver Trimaran on e-bay and was hoping someone here could tell me where the person got the plans for it. I am a competent wood worker and have studied the stitch and glue books so I am hoping to build something like this. If any one has the information it might be what the original post question is looking for as well.
DannTry here:
http://www.mariner.org/library/plans_dwgs/index.php

Arthur Piver Collection
Acquired in 2001, this collection contains plans of trimaran boats designed by Arthur Piver and produced under the company name Pi-Craft during the 1950s and 1960s. Vessels include Lodestar, Trident, Banner, Chariot, Empress, Encore, Herald, Nimble, and Victress. The plans are part of a larger collection (MS232) that consists of articles, periodicals, books from Piver's personal library, manuscripts pertaining to his research and visual material, including film, photographs, and slides.I love Piver designs, which are not readily trailerable BTW, but have a TON of room with those wing cabins. They got a bad wrap, but that was due more the the builders inexperience and selection of materials than design. There's a lot of properly built Pivers out there that have lasted for years.

BTW if you like Piver tris, check out his associate Jim Brown
http://www.searunner.com
http://www.searunner.com/sr34.jpg
http://www.searunner.com/cc24.jpg

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by Ric_Bergstrom:
<2>
Finished a race and an Olson 30 challenged us for a quick race with the winner getting the beer.

We accepted (just two of us on board), put the autohelm on, got a beer, climbed out on the windward ama, sailed through their lee and left them behind...never did collect.
:cool:

[Dan St Gean]

David Geiss

It occurs to me that I've never seen a trimaran cat kecth rigged.

Not truly a tri shape vaka, but check out the http://www.marine-concepts.com/tri21.html

Dan

[YMT]

Cold Molded Plywood Mono-Wing-Maran.
Single centre hull with lifting side wings.
Loa.24'xLwl 23'-9"xBeam 48"x Draft 9"xDispl. 1075Lbs. web page 17 (http://www.tantonyachts.com/images17.htm)

[Mark Van]

Dick Newick designed a few Cat Yawls with unstayed masts, but I don't know of any Cat Ketches.

[JimConlin]

I'm building Spark, one of Dick Newick's cat yawls. See BDQ #2 for a description. Hope to launch next year.

[brian.cunningham]

http://www.crossmultihulls.com/
http://www.crossmultihulls.com/DSCN0516.jpg

[rbgarr]

Not trailerable but an interesting rig! I wonder how well it worked?

http://www.dicknewick.com/WhiteWings.html

[kiwi2]

I've been busy and haven't followed the thread for a while.
Do your research. The folding system does restrict beam and float bouyancy, and they do heel more than wider designs with high bouyancy floats. You can't argue with geometry. LOL restricts float bouyancy... Um and sail area enters your equation where?

Wide trimarans with large volume floats are designed to sail with the main hull out of the water. THey have a huge sail plan Now you can cruise like that if you wish. Farrier tris have less float wetted area and small sail area. When the float starts getting too deep in the water it is time to reduce sail. They can't sail with the main hull out of the water because there is no rudder on the float (you know rudders are the things you steer with)

I have never seen a Farrier tri heel as much as a monohull. If that was the case the float would have to be completely immerged and half the beam as well. Please send pictures, I can't wait to see.

[Tomcat]

Everyone knows the Farrier is the most successful folding boat by a county mile. But the restricions on ama size and beam are real. It isn't true to say that all boats designed with big floats and wide beams are designed to fly the hull some are designed to maximize form based stability.

Just as there are people who haven't sailed Farriers there are also so many lovely farriers out there that there are many people who have no experience of anything else. So throwing around the expert title without serious experience in other small multis is just as hollow. And very few people have that experience because Farriers are so good few bother to build other boats.

What I do strongly believe is that demountable designs while they can easily be configured to outsail Farriers on a dollars or pounds basis, are so far from being trailer sailable that anyone buying them as such will be severely disappointed. Possible exceptions for the 3 meter tris.

On the other hand there is no free design lunch There is little about the Farrier design that would stay the same if folding wasn't so central to it. As Dick Newick famously said "You can have any two of speed, cost, of accomodations" The same kind of tug of war exists when you add in folding.

[JimConlin]

Not trailerable but an interesting rig! I wonder how well it worked?

http://www.dicknewick.com/WhiteWings.html White Wings was intended to be, in my words, a solo cruiser for grown-ups. That is, it would be easy to sail without great discomfort or athleticism. I've sailed on it and it seems to satisfy that brief.

I'm currently building a smaller (28') daysailer version, Dick's 'Spark' design. It will have the same Ljungstrom cat-yawl rig. Hopefully, the inefficiency of the rig will be made up for by light weight (est. 1600# empty) and considerable (22'10") beam. Ask me next year.

[Dan St Gean]

Tomcat dug this thread out of the bin, but I'm glad he did since I have seen a new "kit" tri called the L7 produced by Multimarine I think? Check out the yahoo group on the topic.

The amas slide rather than fold, and the vaka is smaller. However, the boat is just plain fast and Mike knows the Farrier product. Lots cheaper than the Corsair boats, lighter, and faster. Probably won't hold its value like an f boat, but will probably do as well as any other succcessful hand crafted boat to a good design.

http://www.multimarine.com/L-7/L-7.html

Dan

--currently building a Hawaiian outriger based trimaran.

[George Ray]

Tremolino...
Dick Newick Design was in porduction for a number of years. Active yahoo group and one devoted website. The are fun and wild sailing machines.
Had one and bought a pinky schooner and there were not enough hours in the day for both, sold the tri and it now lives in NY on the Hudson River. They are available used 2500 to 5000. the original idea was a center hull that used hobie 16 hull for outriggers. Later a hi-performance outrigger was developed.
Fastest I ever went was 18 knots but there are reliable reports of 22+ in sizable chop.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p50ce7e7ba93f4daf99bed0716f60ee9a/efc786c5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/p5078f557ccd45ef4a364994508868017/efc786c7.jpg

[ 03-19-2006, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: George Ray ]

[Wild Wassa]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid202/pf8ae3d1bad9261584b6374d21d5c0787/efd98ee4.jpg

Trailer-tris. There are at least 9 at the Canberra Yacht Club, 7 of them are home built that I know of. The largest here is the Farrier 620 Triaunt. The others are various sized Ian Farrier designs. They look like they belong at a golf club not at a yacht club, :rolleyes: .

What is your definition of modern?

When we race there are always tris racing, it takes forever for us to go around them. They crash a lot when other sailors don't anticipate the space a tri needs but the thing that is most evident is that they need two yardsticks. In soft to medium winds they appear very ordinary compared to in big winds. In good wind, the lake we sail on is too small. In big winds the tris are dynamic with their asymmetrical spinnakers and screechers.

Warren.

[ 03-13-2006, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]