ACB

[WX]

So has he bailed on us for a while? Did he really delete all his threads?
Personally I am surprised that he should be so wattled by a mob of woudy webels.

[ian scott]

Not wanting to understate his sincere convictions regarding the issue which tipped him over the edge, but in my experience- when someone has a severe dummy spit over something, which the rest of us don't expect- there is usually something else going on in their lives.

[StevenBauer]

He hasn't deleted all his posts but he has deleted all of the threads that he started (almost).
Perhaps he'll still be around on the ClassicBoat Forum.




Steven

[TimH]

He is one of the old timers here.

What set him off?

[TimH]

How many people could they hire with the money this fiasco is going to cost them?

[Lew Barrett]

You quit and pulled your threads based on the comments of one person?

I don't follow all the goings on here; maybe 10% of the total blathering is of real interest to me (so I missed this), but I would never peg you for a man who could be so easily run off even by a direct insult.

[BrianW]

Well, I learned a damn good tip on setting navigation courses to avoid obstacles if a turn is missed. So it was worth something.

Sometimes, some of our employers are considered ''the bad guys" (I'm running 100% on that since leaving the USCG) by the same folks who use the services they provide everyday. I figure that if good people are working there, that improves the situation. Might as well be you and me. ;)

Now if we can figure out a way to break out above that $3500 USD a month salary range, we'd be golden. :D

[Nanoose]

What Lew said. :(

[Peerie Maa]

Andrew, don't let one . . . person spoil your pleasure. Count to ten and rise above it. There are a couple here who really wind me up, and who have insulted me, but my value for the rest of the forum more than out weighs their blatherings.

Also consider that varadero might have been typing with only part of his brain in gear, and did not realise that there was a back message to his post.
Hopefully varadero will now clarify the position, here or by a PM.

[Peerie Maa]

It most certainly wasn't Varadero.

It was George.; it was wholly intended and it came at the end of days of similar stuff.

Sorry, senior moment there. I'd not been following the thread. Change the names to the correct one, the spirit of the post remains the same.

[WX]

Okay Andrew we know you are out there because you keep deleting your comments here.
Dinna stress mon, it's no that bad. :)

[rufustr]

The Sheng Neng thread was and is very interesting.

Greatly diminished by Andrew deleting his posts.

The subject matter of the thread is far from over.

[snow(Alan H)]

Its an english thing - packing up your bat & ball & going home when the going gets tough.........
Then waiting for your friends to rally around & talk you back into the game.
I'll miss him , if you can live with the pommie prat thing, he know his stuff & provides good content that is most of the time - on the button.

[downthecreek]

Its an english thing - packing up your bat & ball & going home when the going gets tough.........


Cr*p.

[WX]

Cr*p.
What's this, a bit of bulldog spirit?

[varadero]

Maybe somebody can clarify just what I have posted that may have insulted or upset anyone on this forum.
Regards
Bobby

[PeterSibley]

I believe it is George of Brazil that Andrew is peeved with Bobby .

[Mike Field]

[/URL].
I suspect (without any evidence other than a gut-feel) that Andrew might be having family problems which have strung him out unduly. (See my post #166 [url=http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=112444&page=5] here (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=112444&page=5), dated over a week ago. I realise on re-reading that post that I expressed myself somewhat more forcefully than was perhaps warranted, but I've refrained from editing out any part of it so I can't be suspected of altering any other part of it at the same time.)

I note that Andrew had a similar hissy-fit in March last year when he went on another slash-and-burn, post-deleting binge. On that occasion I wrote to ask him if all was well. I received a reply that seemed to indicate a fear for his family's well-being as a result of other people's postings. Whether that was justified or not I have no idea.

Following that event, I regret to say also that he had a very strong personal go at me (together with another member of a different forum) in August last year by email. It was about a completely separate issue, and came completely out of the blue, and I'm afraid it turned us from distant but respectful friends --at least on my part -- to non-acquaintances immediately. (This to the extent that during my visit to England late last year I changed my plans about visiting the east coast and meeting up with him, which until then I had been much looking forward to doing.)

Whether I'm correct in my supposition about his having family problems I have no idea. But another Forumite, a fellow east-coast compatriot of Andrew's who knows him personally, could perhaps be in a position to clarify this for us if he so chose.
.

[Mike Field]

Its an english thing - packing up your bat & ball & going home when the going gets tough.........
Then waiting for your friends to rally around & talk you back into the game.
I'll miss him , if you can live with the pommie prat thing, he know his stuff & provides good content that is most of the time - on the button.

I agree with your comments, Snow. But as you can see from my post above, it's not the first time that Andrew's packed up his bat and ball and gone home. Isn't it nice that the Kiwis and the Aussies will go on slogging it out until one of us is unconscious? :D
.

[Mike Field]

What's this, a bit of bulldog spirit?

Close, but no cigar. :D
.

[downthecreek]

What's this, a bit of bulldog spirit?

No. Just a general dislike of the sort of adolescent silliness that takes a pot at one individual and attributes whatever the whinge is about to the whole nation.

Time to grow up.

[hansp77]

I hate this talking and theorising about someone when they have blown a gasket..
however,
I too suspected, for a while now, that there was something else at play in ACB's behaviour.
That thread was, and is still, very interesting- and by no means as clear cut as some would have liked to make it. There is no way known that George.'s posts can be blamed or attributed for this. Simply a straw and a camels back IMO.
I would have argued myself with Andrew- my own opinions on the matter at hand, and taken issue with the line of his defence, if not for one reason-
that he was getting overly emotionally involved, and at times a little unhinged IMO.

whatever the case, whatever my unspoken disagreements/critiques with him on that thread, or even his broadbrush and somewhat absurd attempts to insult/provoke my countrymenandwomen:rolleyes::D, I'll miss his input to this forum greatly.
and as honestly as I can,
wish him the very best in his life and whatever issues (or not) are troubling him.

I hope you come back Andrew, I enjoy reading your posts.
If not, happy and safe travels for you and yours.
:)

[downthecreek]

.
But another Forumite, a fellow east-coast compatriot of Andrew's who knows him personally, could perhaps be in a position to clarify this for us if he so chose.
.

I imagine you are thinking of me, but whether or not I had detailed knowledge of his current situation (I don't), I would have to say that I think only Andrew can speak for Andrew.

That goes for personal information about anyone really. It is the possession of the individual concerned and only that individual has the right to control it.

[Syed]

..........................................
That goes for personal information about anyone really. It is the possession of the individual concerned and only that individual has the right to control it.

I too have the feeling that discussion about Andrew's family problems is like crossing the boundaries.

[Jeremy Burnett]

Perhaps its "Boat" problems! You know, fitting out, its that time of year. We are having wonderful weather at present, some lucky ones are on the water.Due to various problems we will be ashore for maybe three more weeks, this has a plus side in that the varnish is gleaming.Now Andrew has an old wooden boat, spring is a busy time. To paraphrase Alex Ferguson (Manager of Manchester United) "Boats bloody hell!". They can drive a saint to drink. So I hope its just that he's down there in the mud doing other things rather than sitting in front of the screen.

[downthecreek]

So I hope its just that he's down there in the mud doing other things rather than sitting in front of the screen.

Hear! Hear! :)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

If A C-B is going to follow the way of FredZ and give us posts which resemble ripe raspberries - here today, enjoyed in the moment, and then gone forever - would that be such a terribly bad thing?

[Lew Barrett]

Well, an important contributor any which way.

I always miss the fracuses that seem to define these events.

[seafox]

ABC
can't say we are politicaly very close in our outlook but I have always respected your veiwpoint and hope you the very best
jeff

[Ian McColgin]

Sand. Varnish. Repeat.

Sand. Varnish. Repeat.

G'luck

By the way, I rather agree with Andrew about Ransom's work. I'd not want to see any or Mark Twain similarly edited, especially not Huck Finn, but the purposes, meanings and use of words between those two is rather different.

[htom]

I see such word usages as "teachable moments", not as opportunities for editors. /shrug/ You have to learn to be offended, how much to be offended, and when required, to get over it.

ACB -- I'll miss your participation here, wish you the best elsewhere, and hope for your return.

[WX]

Whatever you are doing ACB, I hope it's pleasurable, or at least will lead to that blessed state:D

[Mike Field]

Downthecreek, Syed, Jeremy Burnett and Triturus are correct.

Mike Field is mistaken.

(For what it may be worth, he and I fell out over an emendation that I proposed to the "Swallows and Amazons" series of children's stories by Arthur Ransome. I proposed that the words "Nigger" and "Picanninny" should be deleted from the next reprinting of the current editions of these stories, on the grounds that these are not classic novels, they are childrens' stories and are still bought for and read by children, and a boy or girl who is not Caucasian might be needlessly offended by the presence of these words. Mike does not agree.)

I have been spending too much time here, pointlessly, I have boats that need attention (yikes, note the plural! ;)) and I do admire, and seek to emulate, Fred Z's approach.

To leave old posts lying around is to leave hostages to fortune.

On which basis, this post will self-destruct in two days time.

Toodle pip! :)

Well Andrew, I'm glad if I was mistaken about possible family problems -- about which I was only hypothesising anyway, based on observed behaviour and some comments you'd made about one of your children. I've had family problems myself, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone else.

But it was not that falling-out you refer to that was the real problem. That was just the trigger mechanism. The real problem was the quite disproportionate personal email attack on John and me (and possibly others) that resulted from our disagreement with what were your, might I say, very-strongly-expressed public views.

Downthecreek correctly says --


That goes for personal information about anyone really. It is the possession of the individual concerned and only that individual has the right to control it.

It's why I've deliberately not gone into detail about this before. And I had also refrained because it seemed anyway irrelevant and needlessly detailed as far as this Forum is concerned. But since you've now raised the matter yourself let's have both sides of the story, shall we?

I might also say that if it were really only your boats drawing you away from this Forum, there'd be no need to delete any of your earlier posts. Anyone else in a similar position would simply stop contributing. What is it about your posts in particular that makes them "hostages to fortune?"

I also hope you don't stop contributing however, as, like others -- and despite our disagreements over censorship and now nationalism -- I have always thought that much of what you write is valuable.
.

[PeterSibley]

Downthecreek, Syed, Jeremy Burnett and Triturus are correct.

Mike Field is mistaken.

(For what it may be worth, he and I fell out over an emendation that I proposed to the "Swallows and Amazons" series of children's stories by Arthur Ransome. I proposed that the words "Nigger" and "Picanninny" should be deleted from the next reprinting of the current editions of these stories, on the grounds that these are not classic novels, they are childrens' stories and are still bought for and read by children, and a boy or girl who is not Caucasian might be needlessly offended by the presence of these words. Mike does not agree.)

I have been spending too much time here, pointlessly, I have boats that need attention (yikes, note the plural! ;)) and I do admire, and seek to emulate, Fred Z's approach.

To leave old posts lying around is to leave hostages to fortune.

On which basis, this post will self-destruct in two days time.

Toodle pip! :)

On the subject of "nigger"etal ,I agree with Andrew .There is nothing like being a member of the dominant grouping to blind us to the random insult and barb our language contains .

Whatever other unpleasantness passed between them ,is between them .

On the larger subject ,I reserve my opinion .:rolleyes:

[paladin]

I will agree with Andrew on some of the subject matter, especially anything that links him/his family to certain business and vessels and the area they travel.

And it's been a while since I read Swallows and Amazons, and I probably glossed right through the "offensive" works, probably mentally ignoring them. I can see how children from non Caucasian races might take it.

[mmd]

I gotta toss a shoe in on this one...

Why should a poster let his comments stand when what was specific, industry-insider knowledge used to try to explain the wider scope of a specific incident (the grounding of the Ta Sheng II) becomes fodder for misinterpretation, misrepresentation and insult? I've thought of removing my comments, too, for the very same reason.

Given the reception that our shared information has had, I also regret having given the correspondent what little advice I was able to regarding his travel plans to my part of the world.

Civility seems to be a dying art...

[Mike Field]

.
Michael, given the context, I'd appreciate it if you'd make it clear that I was not "the correspondent" you referred to in your post.

Further to that, the "specific, industry-insider knowledge" you referred to was, in my opinion, tainted with a British-biased orientation against the country where the environmental damage occurred. In the context of the analysis, the nationality of the offending vessel was immaterial. But I'm afraid that the nationality of the commentator was not, because it tainted the commentary.
.

[Ian McColgin]

It is dreadful when some normally temperate and intelligent folk join a braying herd. It does not serve truth, however, to absent one's self or one's remarks when some just won't bother with serious solutions. Others will be listening, reading, and thinking for themselves. They may not speak up vigorously because they are not so sure, or because they fear the mob, or because they know the mob's not listening anyway - or perhaps a mix of all three - but they are out there listening.

Some of the mob, like some of the more persistant casuists on their threads, think that hurling the last and loudest insult makes them winners. Given that what these people espouse is such a fantacy, it seems to me to do no harm to allow them that one more.

[htom]

Spice says that the editing of Ransom's children's works would be acceptable if they were marked as "edited" or "revised". Stealth edits she disagrees with (that probably comes from her Library Science minor.) She also says that she's glad she grew up reading the originals of Shakespeare, Chaucer, ... without modification.

[mmd]

Mike Field - you seem to be doing a pretty good job of distancing yourself without my help.

Ian - sometimes one does not want to be seen associating with those whom would sully your reputation by word or deed. One of the advantages of this medium is that one can do that after the fact. Those that are of a reasonable demeanor and interested will have already absorbed the presented information; those that are not have the playing field to themselves to do with what they will. Interested parties after the fact can search out and find information on ship's operations from other sources.

[Mike Field]

.
Ian, I was told once by a US forum moderator who was in a position to know that for every contributor to a forum there were about thirty lurkers. So that seems to bear out your contention. But for me, the rest of your post is so general as to be not only beyond contention but also uninterpretable in the context of this thread. (Sorry of this makes me sound dense. :( )


Tom the Hth, while I don't think this thread is really about the censorship of Ransome's classic novels per se, nevertheless I do agree with Stealth's view that she was glad to be able to read classic works in their original, non-censored, forms. I have to say also that while Spice's modification is (or used to be) a common one among children's works, I myself as a child always looked for the dreaded "edited by" on the title page and, if found, refused to read the book for the very reason that I knew that some parts of it would have been edited out as being "unsuitable" for me to read.

I'm reminded of Compton Mackenzie's WWI "Greek Memories," which he had to self-censor after prosecution under the (British) Official Secrets Act. My unexpurgated edition, where the originally-excised portions were left in but highlighted, exactly bears out Mackenzie's contention -- that "official secrets" had not been breached at all, but that "official pomposity" had been....

Censorship of any form is a no-no in my book.


Edited to add: Two posts while I was writing. So -- Michael, I take your comment as agreement with my statement.
.

[Ian McColgin]

Michael, you are right. It's always a personal line that one has an absolute right to draw. It's a loss for the rest of us but sometimes for a person's integrity it's the only choise. It's unfortunate that the people who really cause the problem don't have sufficient dignity to even see the problem, much less refrain.

[Paul Pless]

This is sad.

[martin schulz]

Well there have been a couple of Forumites, who decided to throw everything into a dustbin and call the WBF off.

As probably everybody else here, I know that too much time is spent on posting stuff - and not always do those posts contain valuable information to be shared among fellow experts. So, we all spend too much time virtually instead of going outside to spend the time in reality and I do have a bad conscience nagging in my head once in a while.

But then I have actually found people here that really exist and I have had the pleasure to meet face to face, Andrew being one of them.

This being my "excuse" I would never quit everything here, just because someone decided to piss me off - especially not in such a dramatic way.
But "jeder Jeck ist anders" (every fool is different), so Andrew has the right to decide however he feels is adequate.

[Lew Barrett]

But "jeder Jeck ist anders" (every fool is different), so Andrew has the right to decide however he feels is adequate.

And possibly adjustable in time.

[mmd]

Who was that masked man?!!

(That was a pretty quick post-and-delete, Andrew! Less than two hours between my last check-in and finding the above deleted post. Sorry I missed you...)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Raspberries - you get several hours to pick them......

These are ephemera.