Cheap Epoxy

[Meerkat]

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, of the noname brands of epoxy like Raka and products from Progressive Epoxy Polymers (http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html) ?

I've used System 3, and it's awefully expensive. On the other hand, it's depressing when the keel parts company from the hull and it's a long cold swim home...

[Dave R]

I've been using Raka and I know of quite a few others who've used it and had no problems.

[mhoffman]

Larry at RAKA has been great whenever I called. I have been using the 350 resin with no problems. I shopped around quite a bit for best price. Don't buy any fillers though- save your money and use sawdust- you'll have plenty. Just make sure whenever you are using epoxy to wear proper protective gear.
BTW, white vinegar works pretty good for brush cleanup.

[John of Phoenix]

I've used Glen-L with very good results. Never had a fussy batch even with sloppy mixing a time or two. It's a 5:1 mix and they offer a slow and fast catalyst. Even after shipping, it's was a bit less than buying local from West Marine. I've also heard good comments about Raka, especially their service.

[Lowell Bernhardt]

Although I'm still waiting to get my feet wet, so to speak. I have read nothing but good about FIBERGLASS COATINGS EPOXY. They have a great web site @ FGCI.com, I beleive. THis is the stuff that I'm gonna use on the Diablo.

Best of luck,
Lowell

[imported_Conrad]

I've gone through about fifteen gallons from FGCI without any problems- the one to one is cheap and a bit more flexible than the West and System 3 I've used in the past, something I think is a plus for wood boats. They also offer 2:1, 3:1 and 5:1 mixes with tech data that suggests increased rigidity, strength, and heat tolerance as the hardner decreases, what you'd expect. I've only used the 1:1 and 2:1 so far though.

I'll be ordering powdered copper from Progressive soon to take a shot at making my own copper-poxy bottom coat- hope it works!

[Keith Wilson]

For glued lapstrake construction, I am wildly enthusiastic about T-88 from system 3. It's no good for anything but an adhesive; you can't use it for sheathing with fabric, but Lordy it does a good job of glueing. Advantages:
- 1:1 mix
- No fillers needed, it's already the right viscosity
- No precoating with unthickened epoxy, just slather it on and go
- Drips clean up beautifully with a heat gun and scraper (actually, this is true of almost any epoxy, but T-88 seems better than most).
- It's been around forever, 25 years at least. It was originally developed for wooden aircraft construction.

Sheathing epoxy isn't so critical, but for glued laps, I sure do like my T-88.

[ 09-19-2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[warthog5]

I'm up to 30gal now of FGCI 2 to 1. I do alot of vacuum bagging it has the potlife I need as apposed to a 5 to 1. I use the 1gal tops that they use in auto paint stores for mixing paint. I take the agtiator out and you have a nice top with a spring loaded pouring spout. 2 to 1 is easy to measure out in graduated cups. One complaint I have is it is some work to get it thru some 1808. The mat is the problem. I know a guy that says their 3 to 1 does better. In a vacuum bagging it's not a problem. I'd like to try some Pergressive Epoxy but I have not as yet. No problems at all with FGCI.

[garland reese]

The only kind I've ever used is RAKA. I have used the 350 with various fillers, for repairs on non-wood rowing shells and for glueing operations on a Wee Lassie II and a stitch-and-glue canak (or kayoe).....

I've had very good luck with it so far. The 350 is non-blushing.....I've never had a problem with curing or amine blush, but I rub and scrub before coating over, if I have any question that I may have waited too long between. It is also very clear for bright finishing and, without any fillers, it is very thin and wets out light fabrics nicely. I've used it on as heavy as 9oz and it has done nicely. I think it is a good value. 2 to 1 ratio......easy to mix.

[capt jake]

I just bought my 2nd batch of RAKA. I like it. It is 1/3 the cost of West System. Works just fine. smile.gif

[stan v]

Hey Meerkat, dittos the FGCI. Have used the 3-1 to the tune of almost 30 gallons. Not only am I happy with the epoxy, but the service is outstanding. Wait till you see the price, very reasonable. If you order, ask for the 1 gal jugs. I've ordered everything through them, cups, gloves, brushes, rollers, fillers, cloth, etc, etc. You won't be disappointed. No, I'm not a stock holder. Maybe you should change the name of this thread to ....Cheaper Epoxy, cause there ain't no cheap epoxy!

[ 09-19-2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: stan v ]

[Mark Van]

I've used over 70 gallons of Fiberglass Coatings 1:1 laminating epoxy, and am very pleased with it. I was getting it in 5 gallon pails, but I recently ordered two gallons, and it came in paint cans. Not very convenient, but a quick trip to the dollar store got me two 1 gallon pitchers, making it more convenient.
Mark

[Bill Perkins]

Meerkat , I think Raka Is a name brand at this point . What do you have to do ?

Kieth , I share your affection for T88 , comes out of the jar like some kind of wonderfull industrial honey .

[Scott Dunsworth]

I have only built one boat and only used two gallons of epoxy. But I am planning to build a Princess 22 or 26 soon. The information I got on the Princess is that it will take 15 to 20 gallons of epoxy. So I started to check the epoxy prices also. The epoxy from Clark Craft that I used with very good results comes in at $37 dollors a gallon. ( for 15 gallons ) It is a 50 50 mix and is easy to use or at least I thought it was. Its called Epoxy Plus, I havent heard anyone say anything good or bad about it.

[On Vacation]

Raka 900 series and 606 hardner in the warmer climates works just about as good, with very little blush and it is user friendly if doing work by yourself. Stan, how can you use thirty gallons on a stern of a runabout? :confused: Thats weight, a lot of it. Are you working on a new battleship for the Navy?

[ 09-20-2002, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: oyster ]

[Meerkat]

Bill Perkins, I'm scouting choice of epoxy for the Oughtred Whilly Boat I'm shortly going to build. Plans came in today and tomorrow's my b'day, so those are my present to myself! smile.gif

One thing I'm going to have to find out about is how to deal with using epoxy in 55F weather. I found out already that 50 or below and forget it, but 55 ought to be sustainable in the garage we're renting. High humidity is a concern too here in the Pacific Northwet. Any comments on that are appreciated!

The people at Progressive Polymers (see link in my first post) have an interesting take on the whole epoxy world. They say that there are only 1 or 2 companies in the US that make the raw base product and the difference between System 3, West or any of the other branded and noname brands is how they're blended with other chemicals for the properties they're interested in such as cost, viscosity, mix ratio etc. They also claim that West or System 3 are maybe paying on the order of $15/gal for epoxy (in bulk of course) and the rest of the cost to the consumer is middleman fees and advertizing budgets. Their basic "same as" epoxy is $37/gal, or $33/gal. in 15 gal lots. StanV, to me that's cheap compared to $70+ for the name brands. They also have some interesting things to say about CPES and epoxy anti-fouling paints.

Regardless of their claims, I would really need some independent user experiences before I would commit to using it on a boat that's going to cost me $2000+ in time and materials. Better safe then sorry.

[On Vacation]

Keep in mind, a lot of the cost is packaging and marketing. I have never used Progressive Polymer, but in four brands of resin that I have used, Raka seems to hit a nice middle of the road with price and product consistancy. The Fiberglass Coatings hardners you will want to be very careful with. Using it inside can create a big skin problem with vapors upon opening and contact with the raw product.That seems to be where the big difference in cost is.

[rkrough]

I have been using the Progressive "basic no blush".So far I have used it to precoat the inside of the plywood on my hull, to scarf Plywood panels together and assemble the stem and keel. Works fine for me.No suprises in the batches I have mixed,all the joints I glued up have been perfect so far.
I normally use the cheap $20 gallon "boatyard" resin for my little boats, therefore I can't compare it to West or Raka

rich

[WWheeler]

One thing I'm going to have to find out about is how to deal with using epoxy in 55F weather. I found out already that 50 or below and forget it, but 55 ought to be sustainable in the garage we're renting. High humidity is a concern too here in the Pacific Northwet. Any comments on that are appreciated!

-- Industrial Formulators epoxy is supposed to be good to about 34F. See www.noahsmarine.com (http://www.noahsmarine.com)

[ 09-20-2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]

[DavePulaski]

meerkat: System3 claims their resin with their #1 hardener has minimum curing temp of 35F. They don't give the actual curing time at the temp, though, so I'm guessing it's pretty darn slow.

I appreciate and share your newbie anxiety over picking the right epoxy. I decided to go with System3. I'm going to be working in my [unheated] cellar, which will get pretty chilly this winter.

I read a web diary from two guys who built the same boat I am going to build, in an unheated shed during the winter. They strung an incandescant light bulb between each station mold, and covered the hull with an insultating foil blanket to raise the temperature for curing. I might do the same.

[John of Phoenix]

I built my first boat under a carport and used a $10 portable halogen work light from HD to warm the hull on cold nights. Just set it under the hull, well away from any wood, and you're set. I've read that kerosene heaters should be avoided because the fumes interfere with the curing process. (Can't give you a reference on that though.) Probably not a good idea in a closed shop anyway.

Here's a tip to avoid out gassing bubbles when you're coating plywood. If you work with cold plywood, the heat generated as the epoxy cures causes air in the wood to expand and form bubbles on the surface. Not a big a problem, but a nuisance. If you warm the wood before applying the epoxy, the bubbles are less likely to be a problem. If they do form, just use a brush to tip off the plywood and they're gone.

[chesterm]

I built my mahogany runabout with Systems-3. The garage was unheated and un-insulated which meant 80-90 degrees mid summer and down below freezing in the winter. We used the slow hardner summers and mid hardner in cooler temps. Sometimes it would take 2-days to set up, sometimes you got the amine blush sometimes not, but all joints are strong and the coatings are clear and hard. Mitchell