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Vince Brennan
04-07-2010, 05:53 PM
PLEASE be sure that no children are anywhere where they can see the monitor when (if) you open this link... it's NOT pleasant.

http://collateralmurder.com/

I know that "things happen" in a war, but there has to be some sort of a limit.

The long version is really disturbing, not that the "short" version isn't.

How you view this and your response will in great part depend on your political sunglasses. Mine are unabashedly misted up right now.:(:mad:

Paul Pless
04-07-2010, 05:55 PM
ad nauseum (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112568)

paladin
04-07-2010, 06:27 PM
Comments about being relaxed is part of the training...you want your personnel relaxed and focused on the job. I truly feel sorry for the journalists, but if they were inside the "enemy" they knew the risks...the guys on the other side don't have a giant red cross to see through their gun sights that say.."hey I'm a journalist, don't shoot me"......they are in the target zone, and they become targets There are only two kinds of people in combat, targets, and the guys shooting at them. The trick is not to become a target.

AussieBarney
04-08-2010, 05:53 AM
If that vidieo is a sample of how the US army fights its war in Iraq no wonder the iraqis are fighting back with every thing they have got. I could not see any threat to the war bird overhead. They made no real effort to investigate. They made a choice. I'm gonna shoot me some bad guys and they did. Hearts and minds Huh? good way to have another neighbourhood a no go zone.

Vince Brennan
04-08-2010, 07:33 AM
Well, what bothers me most is not that aspect. When on a mission, ANYONE who looks like the enemy is ALWAYS a potential target, but unless I missed it completely, I didn't see any of the groundlings point at or make any threatening gestures toward (actually, I don't think they really paid too much attention to) the Apache's location.

Carrying guns in a contested neighbourhood? While it may be important for personal protection, I should think that the people there are now savvy enuf that if they have a shoulder weapon and see either a column of troops or an aircraft acting interested the FIRST thing they'd do is (if hostile) open fire or (if "friendly") disarm and assume a non-threatening posture that is clearly visible and unambiguous.

I'm quite sure that the pilots thought they were in the right to ask and get permission to "take out a threat" but it just seems like sloppy work.

WE'RE supposed to be the "Good Guys"....or at least that's what I hear on FOX... so how come we're acting in exactly the same manner we condemned the Russians for acting in Afghanistan? (Donn, a little grammar help here?)

I wasn't there, so all I can do is judge from the videos and the accompanying text.

It ain't good.

LeeG
04-08-2010, 07:46 AM
Vince, what I don't get is that these videos have been available for over 6 yrs and this is the first time I can recall anyone using one for a topic. I guess now that the drawdown in Iraq is happening folks are willing to be critical of the images.

skuthorp
04-08-2010, 08:52 AM
Well, puts the bilge into perspective doesn't it Vince?

Vince Brennan
04-08-2010, 10:31 PM
I just saw it yesterday.

The header of the video clearly states that this took place July 2007... either you did not watch it or you are confusing it with another little "accident" of six years ago. My math makes this just short of three years old.

WHEN something takes place is irrelevant to the fact of the occurence. Does the fact that the Holocaust occurred some sixty-odd years ago lessen it's impact on us?

LeeG
04-08-2010, 11:09 PM
There's another video clip out there that's been played over multiple times showing "insurgents" in a field early in the morning before sunrise tossing long tubes in a field and running . They were also blown apart with 30mm cannon. Turns out they were farmers, they get up early in the morning and use pipes for irrigation.

That pro-military writer Bing West described in one of his books a Bradley firing it's 25mm gun on an Iraqi who was fishing near the river,from his perspective it was a totally unnecessary kill and it enraged him.

There are 1000's of other incidences where US forces do well and don't cause unnecessary deaths and they aren't filmed. There's also 100's of stories by non-US network reporters that never made it to primetime because they didn't stroke the liberation narrative about gettin' terrists like the ones that got us on 9/11.

I just think it's a little late to show outrage. I went to protests, I tried arguing with people that Iraqis forming into security groups and militias doesn't automatically mean they're "terrists" like Al Qaeda and people weren't willing to consider the difference.
During the 2004 election the Kerry was defending his war record in Vietnam and a significant portion of the country still thought Saddam had a role in 9/11.

Vince Brennan
04-11-2010, 10:50 PM
It's NEVER too late.

Wrong is ALWAYS wrong.

S B
04-11-2010, 11:55 PM
Similar videos were broadcast on CBC during the first days of the invasion, to show how well the U S was doing, until people on the ground verified the targets and the body counts. Can anyone still believe that the U S is hated for it's freedom?

24hacker
04-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Comments about being relaxed is part of the training...you want your personnel relaxed and focused on the job. I truly feel sorry for the journalists, but if they were inside the "enemy" they knew the risks...the guys on the other side don't have a giant red cross to see through their gun sights that say.."hey I'm a journalist, don't shoot me"......they are in the target zone, and they become targets There are only two kinds of people in combat, targets, and the guys shooting at them. The trick is not to become a target.
Everyone should be able to understand this - well maybe not.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2010, 06:21 AM
no one can understand something he doesn't want to understand

Bob Smalser
04-14-2010, 06:55 AM
This incident has been posted since the getgo.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=112568