Trailer Axle Replacement

[chuckt]

Maybe this is not the right place for this question but I bet you guys would know. I'm restoring a 30 ft CC and it came with a custom trailer. I like the frame although I am going to modify it more to fit the bottom better. The axles are sketchy and the spindles very damaged from when they moved my boat a few miles to a lift to get it on the transport. (bearings failed on three wheels) Anyhoo--must replace the axles, hubs and wheels. I figure will get electric brakes set up for marine use on one axle. Prices vary so much. Where is a reputable place to buy and a reputable brand to buy?

[phiil]

I have used these guys:
http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm
They seem to have everything, they ship right away, prices seem reasonable.

[erster]

Maybe this is not the right place for this question but I bet you guys would know. I'm restoring a 30 ft CC and it came with a custom trailer. I like the frame although I am going to modify it more to fit the bottom better. The axles are sketchy and the spindles very damaged from when they moved my boat a few miles to a lift to get it on the transport. (bearings failed on three wheels) Anyhoo--must replace the axles, hubs and wheels. I figure will get electric brakes set up for marine use on one axle. Prices vary so much. Where is a reputable place to buy and a reputable brand to buy?


Sometimes what appears to be may not be what it appears. While a new trailer that fits a 30 footer is expensive, you will find that to upgrade an old one can be truely expensive to almost not worth it. When you add any type brakes, you must match certain braking systems to the new axles and hubs. Post a picture of what you have now. Also there is an incredible trailer guy that works one on one with the consumer and you may find that you would be ahead of the game to go new. Check out this trailer guy on the west coast of Florida. There are numerous people that you can buy parts, but those folks also need more information.

http://www.slideon.com/index.html

http://www.slideon.com/portfolio.htm

If you do not find what you want with these guys, let me know as there are others that cater to top of the line parts. A single axle with just the hubs and tires with suspension runs a grand for even the basic trailers.
With the inboard engine which i think you have, the undercarriage will also be different. There are other makers that cater just to the inboards and wooden boats too.

[mcdenny]

Also check out:

http://www.trailerpart.com/

http://www.etrailer.com/

I've been happy with both as well as Eastern Marine noted above.

The first link shows a 5200# axle complete w/electric brakes and all the necessary suspension bits for about $500.

[chuckt]

Thanks for the info--I'll get a better pic up tomorrow--dark now. I was thinking a new one would run me close to $10,000. I should be able to fix this one for a lot less than that. In this pic you can see it loaded behind and above the boathttp://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/cmeke0870/Transport/IMG00005-20091105-0840.jpg

[erster]

The parts for that particular trailer will for sure run you some big bucks. That is not your normal setup and undercarriage.

[Woxbox]

I like Easternmarine, too. So how much does that boat weigh?

[Ian Marchuk]

Very nice trailer,looks extendable as well. I see what looks like a sliding tube set up where the frame changes from a 45 degree slope to horizontal.
I have built a fair number of custom trailers and overhauled more than I care to remember, no boat trailers of that configuration however.
I believe that Dexter axles makes custom order axles . With exact measurements they can probably supply replacements at a reasonable cost and supply hubs to match the bolt pattern of the existing wheels.
What do you have for suspension, and what kind of brakes?
Granted , if you intend to pull this trailer with the tractor in the picture , one braking axle would be ok. But, some areas require mechanical inspections on trailers deemed commercial and in our area, all axles must have functioning brakes....period. I'm sure that this requirement will soon be in your area as well.
I take comfort in maximum braking power, but my use is generally fairly long distance at highway speeds with lots of grades so braking power is mandatory.
When replacing axle assemblies the extra cost for mounted brake assemblies isn't much more... and all of the components are brand new.
One of the most common causes of bearing failure is water contamination and neglect. Dunking warm hubs into cold water often draws water past the seals. The water displaces lubricant and pits bearing surfaces when the trailer is sitting.
There are hub assemblies on the market that have oil bath bearings , with transparent HD plastic covers. Oil level always visable and when the oil is contaminated the oil becomes whitened. Very easily seen.
OTOh a machine shop could cut the spindles off and weld on new ones , supply hubs and you would be on your way in short order.
Bring it over and we'll hop to it, a trailer of this quality deserves first class attention....

[David McCollum]

This outfit in Port Clinton, Ohio makes custom trailers for boats of all sizes. They quoted me around $7200 for a new one to fit my 32' Matthews, which weighs about 12,000 lb.

http://www.loadmastertrailerco.com/

[The Bigfella]

Very nice trailer,looks extendable as well. I see what looks like a sliding tube set up where the frame changes from a 45 degree slope to horizontal.
I have built a fair number of custom trailers and overhauled more than I care to remember, no boat trailers of that configuration however.
I believe that Dexter axles makes custom order axles . With exact measurements they can probably supply replacements at a reasonable cost and supply hubs to match the bolt pattern of the existing wheels.
What do you have for suspension, and what kind of brakes?
Granted , if you intend to pull this trailer with the tractor in the picture , one braking axle would be ok. But, some areas require mechanical inspections on trailers deemed commercial and in our area, all axles must have functioning brakes....period. I'm sure that this requirement will soon be in your area as well.
I take comfort in maximum braking power, but my use is generally fairly long distance at highway speeds with lots of grades so braking power is mandatory.
When replacing axle assemblies the extra cost for mounted brake assemblies isn't much more... and all of the components are brand new.
One of the most common causes of bearing failure is water contamination and neglect. Dunking warm hubs into cold water often draws water past the seals. The water displaces lubricant and pits bearing surfaces when the trailer is sitting.
There are hub assemblies on the market that have oil bath bearings , with transparent HD plastic covers. Oil level always visable and when the oil is contaminated the oil becomes whitened. Very easily seen.
OTOh a machine shop could cut the spindles off and weld on new ones , supply hubs and you would be on your way in short order.
Bring it over and we'll hop to it, a trailer of this quality deserves first class attention....

....are you looking at the trailer UNDER the boat, or the one ABOVE it?

Chuck is talking about the one above the boat.

[Ian Marchuk]

Duh.... I was smitten with the trailer under the boat....at first glance the trailer in question looked like background "stuff"
So after cleaning my glasses and having a closer look I see.....
Looking at the size of the boat and from what I can see of the trailer on top of the load (that did not come out right) I do not have much confidence in the carried trailer.
Lets start from scratch.
What will your boat weigh all found with fuel ,stores and gear and how do you want to use the trailer? Distances, weight , road conditions, and what will you be pulling it with?
Thanks Ian, apples and watermelons eh?

[The Bigfella]

No worries Ian...

Is that trailer just for yard use? I can't see any suspension details.

I've got a twin axle yard trailer for my Dragon, for instance.... just intended to get the boat out of the water after each sail... and definitely NOT for road use. No suspension.

[chuckt]

Sigh (and sigh again). You guys are right. I should have just abandoned this thing in the yard. The suspension is a single heavy leaf for each axle on both sides. I would have to replace the axles and wheels, probably suspension. And it has no support for the keel or stringers. I strongly suspect that a number of broken frames are due to storage on this trailer because the cracks line up with the trailer beam supports. And when I examined it with a new eye, it doesn't inspire confidence for road use. My boat, according to the original specs, should weigh about 8000 lb empty. Sigh yet again. Do all correct answers involve spending gobs of money? Just moaning--I appreciate the advice.

She can carry 122 gallons of fuel and 20 gal fresh water so another 1300 lb. Various junk add another 1000. I would want the ability to trailer about 200 miles although this would be rare. I have a Ford F-250 Diesel with towing capacity of 13,500 lb. It has a fifth wheel hitch (in the bed) that we use for hauling a big horse trailer. I really like how the fifth wheel arrangement pulls so if I go custom, that will be somethign to think about.

David--can you post a pic of yours? Should be similar to what I need

I'll unfold my moaning chair tonight, sit in front of the boat, and bitch to myself

[erster]

The sheerline on that boat and even the waterline and the overall photo shows the boat is not that bad. With paint on the boat this also says that a lot of your work is done. Dampness and dry seasoning is not reflected on the sides of that boat. With broken frames you also have a leg up with something to work with too. Do not look at the project as Mt. Everret. Look at the boat as placing one foot ahead of the other. Just make sure that you protect your boat in the rehab so that you do not go backwards as you attempt to go foward. Seek out a good shed or build you a decent temporary one from the beginning. The time and money will be returned all along the way. Thats a pretty nice boat.

[chuckt]

Thanks Erster. I'll be doing a rebuild thread soon. I was waiting until I started repairs (as opposed to just plank, keel, and stem removal). I am now there and have already repaired a couple of frames and am currently fabricating a stem/gripe replacement. The last owner took care of her pretty well but I am sure he did not know about the cracked frames and rot in most of the forward frames and in the lowest part of the bilge. Also some oily frames to deal with. As I said--thread starting soon

Trailers not as bad as I thought. Looks like I can get a nice custom triple axle from a company in Florida that has a good rep for around $6,000.

[erster]

Thanks Erster. I'll be doing a rebuild thread soon. I was waiting until I started repairs (as opposed to just plank, keel, and stem removal). I am now there and have already repaired a couple of frames and am currently fabricating a stem/gripe replacement. The last owner took care of her pretty well but I am sure he did not know about the cracked frames and rot in most of the forward frames and in the lowest part of the bilge. Also some oily frames to deal with. As I said--thread starting soon

Trailers not as bad as I thought. Looks like I can get a nice custom triple axle from a company in Florida that has a good rep for around $6,000.
For storage and travel on that type of trailer you really needed a good cradle which I do not see. Thats about what I expected for a new one with all the goodies. We need to address the stem issue though and approach the removal and care of that repair carefully. Have you had a qualified wooden boat surveyor look at the boat?
edited to add, a triple axle trailer is more of a highway trailer which makes it unfavorable for city or limited turning areas.

[chuckt]

Thanks Erster--I'm a bit down the road on the rebuild. I've posted several threads on the stem in this forum and others and have consulted with the Gougeon tech guys. I'll probably have the thread up this weekend but here is my most recent pic showing a partial view of the boat's status.

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/cmeke0870/work%20begins/IMG00104-20100328-1918.jpg

[Grand Chillin]

Have you checked with Wesco, they are right there in Cayce.
http://www.wescotrailers.net/index.html

[Ian Marchuk]

Morning gents...
Are we talking about a gooseneck here?
Six G's is really reasonable for one that hefty, if it is well designed , welded ,sandblasted and painted . Quality really varies widely. Consider torflex axles . I have replaced sprung assemblies with torflex and found them to be so much easier to pull. The action is a lot easier on the boat as well. For relatively big and heavy wood boat they would be worth it. The price difference isn't that much anymore.

Buying a trailer is not that much different than buying a boat , look around , eyeball designs ,welding and finish very carefully, there is a lot of poor design and workmanship out there.
There are big boat trailers listed on the Ebay Iboat site quite often, always worth checking out. With the right rigging you could do enough moving to make some return on your investment.
Keep us posted,
Ian

[ion barnes]

If the trailer frame is in good shape, replacement axles,springs and hubs are the way to go.

Dont go to electric brakes, water immersion, and especially saltwater will give you nothing but frustration.

Hydraulic surge brakes are a better option.

Dont go near disc brakes that are composed of aluminum calipers, bronze pistons, SS rotors - you will need zincs on those axles! Even if they say suitable for marine use.

Depending on your state laws you may be required to have brakes on all axles.

[Ian Marchuk]

How about some detail pics of the trailer you have.
It looks like a channel steel mainframe. Give us the dimensions of the steel in the existing framing.

[chuckt]

Here ya go
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/cmeke0870/Transport/IMG00110-20100407-1815.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/cmeke0870/Transport/IMG00109-20100407-1815.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/cmeke0870/Transport/IMG00108-20100407-1815.jpg?t=1270679140

[Woxbox]

Well, I suppose you could put a bed on that trailer and use it for hayrides around the farm. Other than that, I don't see much in it.

[Ian Marchuk]

Is that 2X6 or 2X8? Hard to tell in the pic. 3/16 wall is hefty. Is that hollow structural steel (HSS) tubing the mainframe or the subframe that the running gear is mounted on?
More large pics would help.
On one view it looks like 3/16 wall , on another it could be 1/8. I find it hard to tell. sometimes when steel is saw cut there are burred edges that can easily add 1/16 ".

[chuckt]

It is 3/16 and 2x6 which is pretty hefty. I am pretty resigned to scrapping it though. A friend with some engineering background said the trailer is likely unsafe with no anti-sway construction and insufficient cross-members. I would also have to add an emergency brake system and, as I said above, it definitely needs to support the boat better. I fixed the pics. He thinks if I ever tried to pass an inspection station or got stopped I would be cited. Of course, if I stayed in S.C. I'd probably be okay--I've seen some real junk on the roads here and S.C. doesn't require trailers to be licensed

[kulas44]

Personally, I would buy 3 new 6000 lb rated torsion axles, with brakes, add 4 cross frames (bent to match the hull) with adjustable bunk tabs, install bunks to fit the bottom, a new hitch, LED lights, etc. However, I'm a welder and live in the trailer manufacturing capital of the U.S, even worked for a couple of trailer companies for awhile. Also parts availability is unlimited and almost within walking distance. The frame work is heavier than you will find on most trailers that size, plenty strong, but PLEASE get rid of the trailer house axles, they are junk. Sand blasted and painted it would be better than you can buy, for reasonable money anyway. I would estimate my cost to do myself it would be about $2000, more if you have to farm out the welding.

[chuckt]

Hey Kulas--I'm the world's worst welder but that kinda work can be done pretty cheap down here--hmmm. food for thought. thanks. the axles would definitely go

[ion barnes]

I agree with Kulas. Your engineering friend has no enthusiasm or understanding. You have great potential with these bits, granted you will spend some money but given the boat you are planning to haul, the required trailer will be a custom fit and you will spend less than buying a manufactured trailer that you would then have to modify. Go look at trailers at various boat ramps for ideas etc. you will see a lot of junk but then you will see something that just stands out.

My personal views on boat trailers is;

1) Keep the boat as low as possible on the trailer, giving clearance for axle travel unless you use torsion axles.

2) Keep the wheels and fenders outside the width of the hull with several inch of clearance.

3) Do not use bunk boards lined with carpet or plastic. Use lots of rollers, in fact lay a center rail with rollers that the keel can rest on, and more rollers outboard to stabilize the hull preferably under the hull longitudinal stringers.

[5.5 Meter]

Looks like you have some heavy material to start with as the foundation.

Axles- Go with new, electric or surge are ones preference…assuming that the trailer does not get dunked. Electric allow you to adjust the sensitivity of the breaks of which I (2-cents) feel is a plus. Down side of electric, can’t dunk and need vehicle with break controller.

Also on axels- need to determine total weight of trailer (with all new parts and cross bracings, spare tire, fenders, etc) when determining your needed axle/s capacity. You might get by with two at 7,000…don’t know if you will have to go with 3 @ 6K as someone had suggested and I think you would be pushing it with 2 at 5k.

It looks from the picture that the carriage is welded to the frame. Would consider grinding the welds and going to “U” bolt style of attachment. This will allow you to move the carriage (for and aft) to change the balance of the trailer (tongue weight) which I’m sure will change as you add metal/cradle, etc. to the trailer.

Good luck,

[5.5 Meter]

Also, would guess that you are (or should be) at a 2-5/16" ball.

[D Happ]

3) Do not use bunk boards lined with carpet or plastic. Use lots of rollers, in fact lay a center rail with rollers that the keel can rest on, and more rollers outboard to stabilize the hull preferably under the hull longitudinal stringers.

I disagree with this statement completely. On a fiberglass boat, yes, rollers, but not a wood boat. Long wide bunk boards crossing as many frames as possible and extending past the transom a little. Don't cover them with carpet, it stays wet too long.


2) Keep the wheels and fenders outside the width of the hull with several inch of clearance.
But not more than 8' total width. Wider than 8' needs a wide load permit. I know there are several on this forum that will jump up and say, "My boat is 19 million feet wide and I've never been caught." Well good for you, the law is 8'. Looking at the photo of the boat sitting on the drop deck, the boat is 8' wide or just a little over.

The boat should not be dragged on and off the trailer, it should be floated off the trailer. Make an extending tongue if you need to.

Use just enough spring to match the weight of the trailer and boat, no more. More axle and spring makes for a stiffer ride on a wood boat. Wood boats need a nice soft ride.

You have a great start. Look at photos of trailers on the internet, ebay and go to the boat yard. It will become evident what you need pretty fast.
I like redtrailers.com
Dan

[kulas44]

Nix the rollers, great on glass hulls but not enough spread out support for wood. I emphatically agree with everything else, good post 5.5 meter. Grind off the trailer house crap frame and all. Weld in your cross frames, weld on bolt plates for torsion axles (8 foot, to the outside of the tires, tow it anywhere, like the previous post) unless the frame requires wider axles than 8 foot just buy standard axles. You can "fudge" on width, I've been stopped by HiPo's while towing a 29 foot boat that was 11 foot wide, got a ticket for running a red light. I told him I couldn't stop this tub that fast. Even tho I was pulling it with a Ford F550. (really just not paying attention). But I also pulled a 54 foot by 16 wide trawler from Galveston to Oklahoma with a Freightliner and a POS trailer using a farm tag and no permits so my advice may not be that great !

[chuckt]

I feel so easily influenced--now I'm up for saving it

[George Ray]

It may not be a good trailer but it looks like a great beginning.
As a former welder, ship-fitter, I like the metal I see in the pictures. I also like the idea of the torsion tube axels. Greatly simplifies suspension construction and chassis/axel alignment which can be challenging.

[ChaseKenyon]

Check with several of the local house trailer sales and especially delivery guys. They are hurting now too and and often have extra double axle sets with the springs and all. If electric brakes OK just dry them out good before hitting the road. If hydraulic go to the camping and bus conversion sites and install an electric over hydralic system with elec pump and accumulator on the trailer. I believe E over H systems are getting popular with fifth weel campers. So parts should be easy to find with a little scrounging.

[chuckt]

Thanks guys--somuch infromation and lots of good thoughts