Building your own AC/DC Dist panel

[knottyBuoyz]

If you've ever wondered if it's cheaper to make your own AC/DC dist panel? You can't so forget it and just go buy one.

Having some time on my hands this winter I thought it'd be a good project. I found a software on the Internet "Front Panel Express" that'll allow you to design your own panel and the company will cut it for you. The software is free to download and use and it will price out your project for you. This was the result of the design phase of the project.....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/fullpanel.jpg

You have to pay extras special attention to the back of the panel. Clearances for all the switches etc. can be problematic. I think I had to redesign 5 or 6 times before I got it all to come together. You can see what I'm talking about here....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/panel_backside.jpg

I had some of the components so I wanted to use them otherwise I would have went with the typical Blue Sea toggle/breaker switches. I also wanted to incorporate the AC Selector & DC selector switches.

The boat's name will be "She:Kon" pronounced "Shay Go" or "Shay Cone" (depending on who translates) is a traditional Iroquois greeting meaning "Do you still have the great peace?" the foundation of their belief system.

Having just watched "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" we had to add this to the panel....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/iid_switch.jpg

Infinite Improbability Drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Gala xy#Infinite_Improbability_Drive)

The things I learned on this lil' project.


You can't do it cheaper than Blue Sea or Paneltronics
You have to be very careful in placing all the components on the panel
It's likely not that wise to put the DC selector switch directly on the panel, it's going to be tight getting the 3 x 1/0 into the switch
You will have a totally unique custom panel that no one else on the planet will have
You learn a lot and can appreciate the skills and abilities of people who do this for a living
Don't always trust the dimension drawings included with the various switches etc., measure them yourself

All toll I'll likely have $800 into this panel before I'm done. I could have bought a decent Blue Sea for $500. I did get a lot of enjoyment and self satisfaction from doing it myself. It was a bit frustrating at times and the panel material (3mm anodized aluminum) scratches easily so handling it carefully is a must.

This is what the near finished panel looks like.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/elec_panel.jpg

Questions, comments or suggestions always welcome.

[The Bigfella]

But you had fun... didn't you.

Well done.

My Blue Seas panels cost me about the same btw. I guess I was buying against a strong US dollar at the time.

[George Ray]

NICE JOB, thanks for sharing your learning experience.

[paladin]

First...I would not anodize the panel...plays hell with grounding. Anodizing is an insulating process. You should have alodined it...a chromate conversion process and conductive...
But I'll stop there....looks nice....and the folks aren't cheap that made the panel itself. I have all the components in my data base and with the outlines with a dotted line that does not print, I know the room allowed for the proper size wire and room needed to bend...etc.

[seo]

I've made quite a few panels over the years, usually using either plexiglass or lexan, clear or smoked, as the panel blank. Have also done a lot of repairs to panels in boats ranging from a Pearson 22 to 1,200 hp diesel-electric tugs.
A few observations:
A hinged panel makes repairs and modifications a lot easier
attaching the DC selector switch to a hinged panel is a mistake. The big cables should not be twisted around.
The back of the panel should be labeled, and the wiring should be labeled too. You can get kits of little self-adhesive number labels for this purpose.
Make a wiring diagram. When it's first done it's all fresh in your mind. Nobody's memory is perfect. Right now I'm working on a wiring system that I installed in 1986, and I'm very glad to have a diagram. Keep one copy of the diagram with the vessel's documents. The "working" copy should be glued to a piece of plywood and coated with varnish so that it doesn't get trashed.
If, for example, you're wiring a lighting circuit with five switches/lights on one circuit, done run all the wires to the circuit breaker. Run them to a terminal strip solid-mounted next to the panel, and then run a single jumper from the terminal strip to the hinged panel. If you do this with all the circuits it will allow a single neat bundle of feed jumpers, all coming from the panel, and going to the terminal strip. Looks good, works well.
IF you're going to put AC and DC on the same panel, the NFPA code requires that the back of the AC panel be: A) marked as such very clearly, and B) covered with a back-panel cover. The reason is pretty simple. A repairman comes on to do something to the DC panel, turns off the DC power, opens up the panel, doesn't realize that the AC wiring is still live, gets a shock, or burns the boat down. Lawsuit city. That's the same reason why on multi-volt systems on commercial vessels that will be operated and repaired by trained guys, the 208V three-phase is on a different panel from the 600V DC, and the 110V single phase.
I like to use a non-conducting panel. Plexiglass or lexan is readily available, easy to work with. It can be got smoked dark grey. The clear is kind of artsy-craftsy.
I run all ground wires to a DC grounding bus bar, and from there a direct grounding cable to a second bus bar next to the batteries where the starter ground, battery - cables, and system ground jumper are all mounted. It's common to do this on the engine, but I don't do that, preferring to keep the engine-compartment wiring to a minimum.
This grounding scheme is different from the AC panel, where I always use double pole, single throw (dpst) switches, and switch both the white and black wire. The green (ground) wire is never switched, even at the system shut-off/selector switch. Any time shore power is hooked up, the green wire should be connected. I put a jumper between the green wire bus and the DC - bus, but not between AC neutral and green or DC -.
My experience has been that the typical marina dock is very poorly wired. To pull the floats in the fall they have to unwire the whole system, usually inside the outlet towers on the float, then re-wire it in the spring. Is this work done by trained people? Do they test to make sure they have a 0 ohm connections? Does anyone EVER check the resistance between green and earth? The whole system has to more around with the floats, is subject to salt spray and the idiot tinkering of dock workers and yacht owners. This might not be so bad at resident docks, where the same boats are tied up all season long. But at transient docks, it is often not so good.
A useful thing to keep in mind is that when you're hooked up to shore power, you are to some degree in a common system with all the other boats connected to shore power on that dock. There are work-arounds to this, but they ain't cheap.
Another thing that people often overlook is that a common shoreside battery charger is usually wired so that the AC neutral and DC - are common. This is easy to check. Take an ohmeter and check for resistance between the DC- black clamp and the neutral blade on the plug.
USEFUL FACT: The neutral wire is white in a US or Canadian circuit and is the one with the wider blade. If you're facing a grounded outlet, the neutral is the one on the left, the hot wire is on the right, and the green/ground is the round hole on the bottom. If someone installed the plug upside down, so that the ground is on top, I guess you should stand on your head...
Anyway, if you have an low resistance between AC white/neutral and DC - at the battery charger, there's an argument to be made that the only safe way to use that charger is to disconnect the battery, both + and -, from the boat, before connecting the charger. A marine battery charger isolates the DC - from the AC white/neutral.
I run two hot feed wires to the panel from the battery selector switch. One is switched, and is used for all the circuits EXCEPT the bilge pump. The other one runs from the hot side of one or the other of the batteries, and goes to the bilge pump switch, which is on the panel, but is not connected to the common DC+ bus bar, but gets its own feed. The panel switch is a three-position, being off, #1 (feed to float switch) #2 (feed direct to pump). This circuit needs over-current protection, just like all the others. This can be provided with a fuse, or if all the other circuits have circuit breaker switches, and you can't find a three-positiion circuit breaker, then you can use one of those circuit breakers as the feed to a three-position non-circuit breaker switch right next to it on the panel. This eliminates the ugly special bilge pump switch, but has no other advantages. In any event, the bilge pump should: A) not get turned off when the battery master switch is off and B) have a fuse or circuit breaker in the system.

[donald branscom]

Will the computer program work on a Macintosh computer?

[MarkH]

Will the computer program work on a Macintosh computer?

doubt it, unless you've got parallels or some such installed as well

did mine on the mac though, used adobe illustrator, took the file to a vinyl cutting/printing/signmaker type place

got 3 copies of it printed on vinyl and die cut for £30 (assuming I'd screw up sat least once somewhere installing one of them!!)

could have had it engraved or etched onto ali but was happy enough with the vinyl version

[Zakkendrager]

Rick,

Looking at the DC part of the panel, I think I am seeing switches for the various circuits but no fuses or breakers. If that's the case, how are you handling individual circuit protection - with separate in-line fuses for each circuit or another panel with fuses. I did see the breakers near the middle that look like the number needed for the AC part of the panel. Just wondering....Ralph

[knottyBuoyz]

Lots of good stuff here seo. I'll try to address then one by one.


A hinged panel makes repairs and modifications a lot easier

I intend to hinge the panel, absolutely. It'll reside in the console. Something like this....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/electrical_access_LR.jpg


attaching the DC selector switch to a hinged panel is a mistake. The big cables should not be twisted around.
Yes I realized that too late.


The back of the panel should be labeled, and the wiring should be labeled too. You can get kits of little self-adhesive number labels for this purpose.
I have a Dymo labeller and am working on a schematic as I go. I'll print & laminate it and it'll stay in the cabinet behind the panel. I've done this on my current boat and it's handy as heck!


If, for example, you're wiring a lighting circuit with five switches/lights on one circuit, done run all the wires to the circuit breaker. Run them to a terminal strip solid-mounted next to the panel, and then run a single jumper from the terminal strip to the hinged panel. If you do this with all the circuits it will allow a single neat bundle of feed jumpers, all coming from the panel, and going to the terminal strip. Looks good, works well.

I've planned to do this as well on the AC side. I have a Bussman ATC fuse block to use for circuit protection on all the DC circuits.


IF you're going to put AC and DC on the same panel, the NFPA code requires that the back of the AC panel be: A) marked as ....

The back of the panel will be marked and I've got a plastic cover for the separate AC & DC sides. It's a little tight but it works.


I run all ground wires to a DC grounding bus bar, and from there a direct grounding cable to a second bus bar next to the batteries where the starter ground, battery - cables, and system ground jumper are all mounted. It's common to do this on the engine, but I don't do that, preferring to keep the engine-compartment wiring to a minimum.

Understood and absolutely agree. I've got that planned as well. This was an earlier schematic of the electrical system.

KBIII Electrical layout Adobe PDF (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boatdesign.net%2Fforums%2Fatt achments%2Fonboard-electronics-controls%2F12307d1175547060-photos-electrical-installations-visio-kbiii-elec-layout-planb-rev5b-1-.pdf&rct=j&q=kbiii-elec-layout&ei=g8u8S-uoDoK0lQfN9smECQ&usg=AFQjCNE2NnSWnflJHQek6MRV7J9eiT2RLg)


This grounding scheme is different from the AC panel, where I always use double pole, single throw (dpst) switches, and switch both the white and black wire. The green (ground) wire is never switched, even at the system shut-off/selector switch. Any time shore power is hooked up, the green wire should be connected. I put a jumper between the green wire bus and the DC - bus, but not between AC neutral and green or DC -.

I thought I could get away with just switching the black wire but I see now what you're talking about. I may have to change those switches.


I run two hot feed wires to the panel from the battery selector switch. One is switched, and is used for all the circuits EXCEPT the bilge pump. The other one runs from the hot side of one or the other of the batteries, and goes to the bilge pump switch, which is on the panel, but is not connected to the common DC+ bus bar, but gets its own feed. The panel switch is a three-position, being off, #1 (feed to float switch) #2 (feed direct to pump). This circuit needs over-current protection, just like all the others. This can be provided with a fuse, or if all the other circuits have circuit breaker switches, and you can't find a three-positiion circuit breaker, then you can use one of those circuit breakers as the feed to a three-position non-circuit breaker switch right next to it on the panel. This eliminates the ugly special bilge pump switch, but has no other advantages. In any event, the bilge pump should: A) not get turned off when the battery master switch is off and B) have a fuse or circuit breaker in the system.

Understood and many thanks.

[knottyBuoyz]

Rick,

Looking at the DC part of the panel, I think I am seeing switches for the various circuits but no fuses or breakers. If that's the case, how are you handling individual circuit protection - with separate in-line fuses for each circuit or another panel with fuses. I did see the breakers near the middle that look like the number needed for the AC part of the panel. Just wondering....Ralph

I'm going to use an ATC fuse block so it can be mounted in the helm within easy reach.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/Inventory/bussman_ATOATC_Fuse_block.jpg

[knottyBuoyz]

I managed to get some of the wiring on the backside done before I ran out of parts.....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/panel_wired-1.jpg

[GregW]

This is a good thread, I've learnt quite a bit.

[paladin]

The Dymo labels will get absolutely sticky, slimy and not hold their stickiness together in damp air.... use proper labeling. Professionally there is a hot stamp machine that "burns" the label into the wire as you pull it thru.

[knottyBuoyz]

The Dymo labels will get absolutely sticky, slimy and not hold their stickiness together in damp air.... use proper labeling. Professionally there is a hot stamp machine that "burns" the label into the wire as you pull it thru.
I've had pretty good luck with the Dymo if you stick them under some clear shrink tubing. Sorry I don't have a pic.

[seo]

Paladin's right, Dymo label glue doesn't hold up, and you can get clear tubing to put it in.
I find it much quicker to use numbers, which come in a little dispenser made for this purpose that wholesale electric distributors sell. It dispenses a little strip of tape, maybe 3/16 inches wide X 1/2" long, marked "4", for example, all along the outside. It wraps around the wire, so it's stuck to itself, and doesn't come loose. You can also cut one of the "4"s off and stick it onto the circuit breaker, and even on the front of the panel, and on the devices that it's switching. And then you mark "4" on the circuits on the diagram.
I like this better than name labels because if they don't fall off the wire they turn themselves around so that you can't read them without a lot of twisting and turning. Having numbers all around the wire means there's always one facing you.
I used to wrap the labels around the wire so that they overlap, and then tried putting them around and then sticking the "tails" of the label together, so that they're stuck sticky side to sticky side. Works better, and the little tail makes it more readable for some reason.
Two other comments.
NFPA rules require that there be circuit protection within (I think, I don't have the book right here) six feet of the power source. Which means that if the switch panel is more than six feet from the batteries (DC) or the service entry (AC) then there has to be a breaker/fuse in that line. The reason for this is that if you have wires that aren't over-current protected you can start a fire. The NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) 302 code for boat wiring under 50 volts isn't very long, is very clear, and quite reasonable. It's the basis for both the USCG rules and the standards in ABYC. Both those organizations add a lot of their own stuff on, which may be useful. Or not.
RE: shore power service entry. Hunter Marine builds pretty flimsy fiberglass boats, but they are quite clever about some things. For example, they were one of the first builders to include the foredeck lockers for anchor and rode. What an improvement over having a wet, muddy, slimy rode down in your forward cabin...
They also rig their AC service entry in a logical fasion: There is no ugly, expensive, fragile service entry fitting with the little hinged cover over a Twist-Lock receptacle.
Instead, the service entry cable is stored in a cockpit lock, with a small (2.5") deck plate, big enough for the plug end to fit through. At the other end, the cable goes directly into the AC circuit panel, where it's wired directly to the main service disconnect switch/circuit breaker. The cheapest and best way to replicate this is by buying a 50', 30amp shore power cord, and cut off the service entry end, strip back the cover, make the connections. Works fine. You need to buy a cable anyway, and they cost less than the receptacle. Getting rid of the receptacle/plug connection gets rid of one source of high resistance in the circuit.
This fits code, because if you're plugged into a 30 amp fused shore power outlet the cable is protected. If you have both shore power and a generator you'll still need a selector switch, UNLESS you don't hard-wire the generator, but instead just put a 30 amp outlet on the control box, and plug the shore power cable into it when you're running on ship's power. Not tidy-paws neat, but cheap, safe, effective.

[AstoriaDave]

seo wrote: NFPA rules require that there be circuit protection within (I think, I don't have the book right here) six feet of the power source.

Thought the DC side requirement was within 7 inches of the battery.

[knottyBuoyz]

seo wrote: NFPA rules require that there be circuit protection within (I think, I don't have the book right here) six feet of the power source.

Thought the DC side requirement was within 7 inches of the battery.
I prefer the Maxi-Fuse type.

[seo]

I'll look it up at some point, but 7" is not possible. With only a 7" cable you wouldn't be able to dis/connect the battery. The issue isn't the physical proximity of battery and Fuse. It's the length of the cable.

[AstoriaDave]

seo,

You might want one of these:

http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/productline/overview/378

[knottyBuoyz]

ABYC 11-e.

11.12.1.2. Overcurrent Protection Device
Location - Ungrounded conductors shall be provided
with overcurrent protection within a distance of seven
inches (175mm) of the point at which the conductor is
connected to the source of power measured along the
conductor. (See FIGURE 15.)

FIGURE 15 – BATTERY SUPPLY CIRCUITS – LOCATION OF OVERCURRENT DEVICES

NOTE: Up to 40 inches (1.02m) is allowed if the conductor throughout this distance is contained in a sheath or
enclosure, such as a junction box, control box, or enclosed panel.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/figure-15.jpg

[seo]

I have a life-time collection of holders for "shotgun" style fuses, which are simple and pretty cheap.

[Zakkendrager]

Rick,

You seem to be "up" on the electrical requirements and I probably don't need to belabor this but just in case...in your prior response to my question, you said you were going to use a fuse panel in conjunction with your DC distribution panel circuit switches.
The last few posts cover the requirement for primary fusing at/near the battery and all that is good and clear up to a point but the references I've studied also require that wiring between the primary fuse and the next fuses/breakers or main buss bar, switches, and fuses all need to be rated to carry the current of the primary fuse with a nominal overload allowance (so they don't melt or start a fire before the primary fuse blows if there is a fault). In other words, if the primary fuse is 100 amp and any of the wiring from the buss bar or main distribution point to the switches and fuse panel is 10 or 12 AWG, there could be a problem in the event of an electrical fault (short) not significant enough to blow the 100 amp fuse. Similarly, if the switches are rated for 15 or 30 amp, there could be a problem if there is a fault.
The Blue Sea panels solve this by having, say, a 100 amp rated buss bar with the 15 amp circuit breakers bolted to it.
Anyway, I hope you've already factored all this into your design.

All the best.
Ralph

[knottyBuoyz]

Hi Ralph

Granted it's been awhile since I actually sat down and read the ABYC & Cdn Small Vessel construction standards so I might be a little rusty on some of the details. I did have the wiring schematic passed over by an electrical engineer where I work (Canadian Coast Guard Technical Services Branch). I'm an Marine Engineering Logistics expert so I have some technical capability although I've never done anything like this before! :o

I do appreciate your input and I'll check but I'm sure the switches and breakers are correctly sized for the 30 amp shore power and 100 amp DC services. I've used (and will use) 14 ga for all the AC branch circuits. It'll be 12 ga 3 conductor flat cable for the AC inlet to the panel. It's a bit of overkill but I tend to oversize all my conductors where its practical. I had planned for 12 ga for most the DC circuits but I'll have to check based on your comments. There's a couple of heavier loads there (20 amps), the upper and lower helm panels where I think I spec'd 10 ga, maybe 8, I'd have to check. The main DC positive and ground leads to the panel & main negative buss are 1/0 ga which is spec'd to be well within the allowable 3% voltage drop (it's a short run to the battery banks). Like I said earlier I like the Maxi-Fuse and have a 100 Amp for the main branch circuit protection. I can't find a rating on the Bussman ATC fuse block but it looks like the buss is sized about the same as the Blue Sea 150 Amp buss bars.

The actual loads for the higher DC amperage devices, inverter, crash pump, Air conditioning etc. will likely be switched through solenoids so I don't have to carry larger conductors for those through the panel itself. I'm thinking I might even have to do that for the main battery connects considering I didn't plan out the DC battery switch too well.

I did a complete re-wire of our current 25' express cruiser two years ago. This was checked by a very knowledgeable surveyor who gave it his blessing (for insurance) and said it was one of the best retrofits he'd see on a small cruiser in quite awhile. :D Sorry just had to toss that in there and toot my own horn!

I think I'll spend some time next week and draw up the wiring for the panel and all the associated buss's. I did that for our express cruiser and had it laminated an stuck on the bulkhead for easy reference.

Thnx again, I really do appreciate your input. More eyes are always better.

[knottyBuoyz]

Ok fella's I need help. AC electrics and I definitely don't get along. There's just something about it that mystifies me. Here's what's going on:

I have a Kraus & Naimer C20-A211 rotary selector switch going in the panel. It will switch between shore power and inverter sources. The switch didn't come with any kind of diagram. I was able to find this on the K&N web site but it means squat to me.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/KN_CA20-A211.jpg

I need to be able to work with "green goes here, white goes here, black goes here" kinda help. I know where the green goes so we can skip that.

Here's the back of the panel.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/backofpanel.jpg

Sp from what I can figure I'll have a black and a white wire from each source going to the switch and one black and one white wire from the switch to the Blue Sea 30 Amp breaker. From there I got it figured.

Any help appreciated.

[Zakkendrager]

Rick,
Appears you have a 2 pole, center off switch. The diagram just indicates that as you rotate the knob, the connection alternates between the left top terminals and the right top terminals. If I were wiring this switch, I'd connect black shore power to "3", white shore power to "7", black inverter 120VAC to "1" and white inverter 120VAC to "5", and ship main panel AC feed black to "2" and main panel AC feed white to "6". This would allow switching between shore power and inverter power. From the diagram it looks like the "0" position is off (neither source connected to ship panel).

My disclaimer: I'm neither an electrical engineer nor electrician but have worked with power and controls in my capacity as a design engineer.

What I am not certain about is the green/safety grounds: should they be switched as well?; otherwise you are going to have the inverter and shore power green tied together all the time. While this doesn't sound hazardous, I can think of one scenario where it could be (though very low probability). If it were me, I'd check further on regulations for that.
So, from what you said, it sounds like you would be doing the same as I would be doing on the hot and neutral wires.
Ralph

[knottyBuoyz]

Thanks Ralph

I stared & stared at it then it hit me just exactly as you said. I think I'm gonna go see my buddy the industrial electrician. He does this stuff all the time. I asked him about switching the green safety grounds and the white neutrals along with the hot feed and he said it wasn't necessary unless you've got parallel equipments on the same ground buss with highly unbalanced loads. I don't see that happening here on a small boat.

I guess I just wire it all up, plug it in and wait for the "Magic Blue Smoke" eh? :eek:

[paladin]

You switch both sides of the line and let the green/ground carry through......too late for the magic blue smoke, once it escapes ya gotta buy a new container and hope it's still inside.

[knottyBuoyz]

You switch both sides of the line and let the green/ground carry through......too late for the magic blue smoke, once it escapes ya gotta buy a new container and hope it's still inside.
Yeah. Funny stuff that magic blue smoke! :o

We had a really stubborn dishwasher on the last ship I worked on. The engineers were in the galley once a week working on the stupid thing. One day one of the engineers got the call to fix the dishwasher. He showed up in the galley with a sledgehammer! :eek: It took me 10 mins to calm him down after which I had to explain we didn't have the $10K to replace the old one. He got to work switching out some solenoids etc. but forgot to lock it out on the breaker panel outside the galley. One of the stewards came into the galley after chores to run the coffee mugs through the dishwasher. The engineer had skipped out for a coffee break. Now it was common place to see the bottom kick panel off of the dishwasher. He just kicked it back into place, loaded up the dishwasher and turned it on. This commercial dishwasher had a steam cycle and it took a min or two to warm up. Once it did that the steward had gone about his other chores when all hell broke loose in the galley. There was that magical blue smoke coming from the dishwasher along with acrid odour of burning wire that always seems to acompany it! :o Well after that lil' episode the chief engineer and myself had to sit down and figure out where we were going to shave $10K from our budgets for a new dishwasher. We eventually found enough to get a replacement. I think I shaved about $5K from the clothing budget. No new winter jackets for any of the engineering staff that year! :p

[SV Papillon]

Couple observations,

Take the DC battery switch out, put a DC amp meter or smart mattery moniter in its place

Try to establish seperate AC and DC runs perpedicular and horizontal to the face plate, come off of terminals with even 90s group everything in nice clean runs. Brady and others make the only real solution for wire labling, a white heat shrink, the labler is pretty spendy but you can just as easily write on the lables with a fine point sharpie and they shrink up to look like typed.

Everything on the panel should be grouped and brought in established AC and DC runs to a single point near the hinged side. Use a p clip or like to secure then spiral wrap or mesh enclosure the grouped wires to a terminal strip on the bulkhead behind the panel. A easy way is to keep everything long label the long end with tape and the panel end with the heat shrink, then start grouping things to the runs off the panel. Run spare AC and DC leads 5 ea. Secure them in the bundle at each end and label.


Any testing in the future can be done via the terminal trip connetions.

Try to use industry established wiring designations Numeral or otherwise

Jake

[knottyBuoyz]

Take the DC battery switch out, put a DC amp meter or smart mattery moniter in its place

Thnx Jake. I've decided to use the battery switch to select which source will power the panel. I know it's sort of redundant but...... I'll add another battery switch (hidden) to select starting battery/emergency cross connect.

I've doodled a schematic of the panel & breaker with associated battery sources & buss's. I know it's kinda busy but it was a quick and dirty. Sorry the only thing I could get it in that would be easily viewable or printable was Adobe PDF.

Link to PDF (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15297&d=1271180432)

Comments as always are welcome.

[Zakkendrager]

Rick,
I took a look at your schematic (I'm doing my own new boat's wiring, currently, and saw an opportunity to expand my horizons...) only thing that jumped out at me was the fuse size for the inverter - only 5 amps? Seems small - that's only 60 watts on the DC side, less on the AC side. Possible?

I can't tell if 14 ga is adequate for all loads (3% loss critical loads) without more info but am assuming you've got that covered. And assuming you are fusing your voltmeters (internal?).

Battery charger?

Finally, references books suggest having a DC case ground for large objects (frig/AC/macerator) that gets tied to the ship's ground buss/ground plate - you're not showing one.

But those are minor points. Conceptually, no big issues.

Ralph

[Zakkendrager]

Rick,

Just re-read your earlier post - I missed the point that you are using a solenoid (contactor) to switch the inverter, so I gather the 5 amp inverter fuse is for the solenoid (contactor) coil and not the inverter. Please ignore my prior post comment about inverter size.

Ralph

[knottyBuoyz]

Thanks for the observations and comments Ralph. This is still very much theoretical at this point. I don't know exactly how far some of the runs will be but rest assured I'll correctly size the conductors & circuit protection. Yes I intend to use solenoids for switching larger loads like the inverter, bow thruster etc. They're relatively cheap and reliable and cuts down on long runs of very large cables.

I stumbled onto a great deal, too good to pass up, for a CnC cut kit for our boat for a great price so that's going to expedite our project quite a bit. We'll likely start stitching panels together later this summer or early fall..... Standby.....

[knottyBuoyz]

For all intents & purposes it's done and ready to build a boat around it.

I apologize for the crappy pics.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/finished1.jpg

I'll be off to the plastics shop tomorrow to get some thermo-form plastic to make the backside covers.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/finished2.jpg

Don't think I'd ever do this again. Final price tag was somewhere near $800. :cool:

Thnx to everybody who commented and made suggestions. I took them all to heart on this lil' project.

[paladin]

Do you have rubber covers for those toggle switches...they are not waterproof.

[knottyBuoyz]

Do you have rubber covers for those toggle switches...they are not waterproof.
I have a few but not enough for them all. This panel will be high and dry on the side of the steering console so I'm not too worried about them getting wet. I got a drawing somewhere. :confused:

[WX]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/KBIII/iid_switch.jpg

I have a similar switch my son pinched from an old armoured vehicle on a live fire range in Malaysia. I like what you have done with yours:D

[Dave B]

I'm going to be needing to do a schematic of my system. What kind of program did you use to do yours?

[knottyBuoyz]

I'm going to be needing to do a schematic of my system. What kind of program did you use to do yours?
Hi Dave

I used Microsoft Visio for those particular drawings.

You can download a free 60 day trial here.....

http://trial.trymicrosoftoffice.com/trialcanada/product.aspx?re_ms=oo&family=visioprofessional&culture=en-CA

[P.L.Lenihan]

Very,very nice work Rick! Is this for the boat you'll be building? If so it would appear you have a ton of stuff planned for that boat if I counted the number of toggle switches and buttons correctly.I can't help but wonder whether you've got enough for a 28footer(?) ::)


Cheers!


Peter

[knottyBuoyz]

Very,very nice work Rick! Is this for the boat you'll be building? If so it would appear you have a ton of stuff planned for that boat if I counted the number of toggle switches and buttons correctly.I can't help but wonder whether you've got enough for a 28footer(?) ::)r
Hey Peter.

Yup it's for the one we're building. I'm going to stretch it to 31' and what's on the panel is pretty much what we have in our current boat with the addition of the AC & Bowthruster stuff. There'll be lots more switches for gizmo's & gadgets on an overhad and helm console. There's only 10 AC circuits & 16 DC that's not a whole lot I don't think.

The AC is for the wife she's got asthma so it gets really uncomfortable for her when it's hot & humid. We'll see how it goes I might be able to do away with the bowthruster! :p

I like gizmo's & gadgets. :D

[paladin]

I built a little 9 1/2 foot dink 30 years ago, just before I sold the 38 and started the 44.....
It would not fit on the cabin overhead......BIL ended up with it as a fishing boat. It had a small electrical panel with 3 switches on it...one marked "on-off", one marked "emergency bypass" and the last one marked "Warp Drive". I had used a large trolling motor sorta modified like an outdrive and (no centerboard) the batteries under the center thwart......
Sonny asked what the switch was for and I told him never to use it as I hadn't had the chance to test it......
He used the boat, kept the batteries charged and enjoyed fishing from it. He used "emergency" once. It had a circuit installed to bypass the regulator if the battery was really low and he needed to get home, but it might kill the batteries.....
One day.....he was fishing with some friends and they were joking about the Warp Drive switch....one dude was standing up and they decided to flip the switch....It Worked....the dude standing ended up in the water and Sonnal almost flipped the boat. The motor was a "12 volt" trolling motor...but checking the specs it was rated to 40 volts, so instead of one 12 volt battery, I used three smaller ones.....and the motor worked correctly with one 12 volt system...the warp drive switch cause the three batteries to switch in series giving 36 volts....the motor would only run about 15 minutes, but developed a helluva lotta get up and go for that 15 minutes.