Teambuilder Design -

[Paul Scheuer]

The Dragon Boat thread below, and some off-board conversation, got me to pondering the ideal design to foster teamwork, cooperation, leadership etc., for a group of high-school age, teenish types. I have some experience in this area, and have some ideas. What does the board think for a cheap, easy, fun, cooperative, competitive, motivating, etc. plan.

Wouldn't it be grand if something like a universal WBF one-design project evolved ?

[capt jake]

Paul, this is an awesome thought!!! As I have no design background, I hope somebody ('s) can help in this thought. Great idea! smile.gif

[garland reese]

I thought the article on the rowing programs (in last month's WB) was great. Rowing will definitely teach kids about teamwork. The strong do not always win. Some type of rowing gig perhaps??

[garland reese]

This was mostly the reason for John Welsford's 6 meter Whaler design. There are lots of jobs aboard, and she is designed to be economical to build. And she is a double ender with a split rig smile.gif

[JimConlin]

(The heavens may part at any moment)

How about John Gardner's General Lafayette adapted to stitch&glue construction?
You get historical significance bonus and it'd be light enough to be really fun to row.

Jim

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by JimConlin:
How about John Gardner's General Lafayette adapted to stitch&glue construction?
You get historical significance bonus and it'd be light enough to be really fun to row.Oh...you've never rowed a gig before. I row the gig DAN -- 20 feet, 4 stations, not exactly lightly built. We do 5-6 knots (by GPS) without breathing hard. Breath hard and you might do 6-1/4 knots.

And...the weight helps in any kind of wind/waves -- we have regularly raced against 25 foot Umiaks (skin boats) with say, 10 paddlers to our 4 sweeps. We walk away from them because they're two light -- they don't have any carry.

I've raced against Salish Star (the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Foundation's copy of GENERAL LAFAYETTE). She smokes.

The only reason to go to S+G, stripped or cold-moulded construction would be for maintenance issues.

[LoonyToo]

I'm one the people that corresponded with Paul on the dragon boat thread.

Accourding to WB #167, various programs around the country (though mostly in the Northeast) suggest that 32 foot Gigs are the way to go. The advantages for Gigs are that they are traditional, move well in many sea conditions, and that there are lots of programs that use them.

The principal disadvantages are the time and cost to build one.

I think what Paul has in mind is something that is very cheap and easy to build compared to a gig. Canoe designs (like the dragon boats) are nice because you can fit more paddlers into a given space than oarsmen. Also, paddling seems to have (at least to me) an easer learning curve for newbies and yet still yields results with instruction and training.

Rowing looks like it would be more gratifying but would take more time for a team to be minimally effective. This is not necessarily bad, just different.

Mini-dragon boats are probably the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see schools across the country building gigs like they do in the Northeast but it just doesn't seem too likely to happen.

The rules would have to be designed to keep the focus on the teams and not the boats in order to prevent a technology race. Minimum weights and strict building standards would help insure that individual boats built by different teams could be raced fairly.

It would also be nice if you could somehow encourage (or even require) the racers to build their own boats. Make it a year long project culminating in a regatta. In the last event they could burn all the boats like Vikings!

Hal

[LoonyToo]

I got a chance to look at the dragon boats up close when they raced at a festival in Denver a month or so ago. These were the boats out of Fort Dodge sponsored by the Kiwanis Club.

By most of our standards, you would have to consider their construction to be well, sort of "crude." It looked like 3/4" in plywood sheathed in fiberglass. It wouldn't even surprise me if they used CDX.

The paint was bright and colorful but far from yacht standards.

Hal

[garland reese]

Here is some information on the Whaler from John Welsford. The concept is very similar. I think with some creative general fundraising efforts and great volunteerism, these boats could be built. And they could be used for both rowing and sailing competition and training, both of which can teach tremendous lessons. They would not likely be cheap and easy, but a nice compromise, and for a long term program, these boats could last a long time............maybe add the sailing bits later on....
6 Meter Whaler (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/6m_whaler/index.htm)

[N. Scheuer]

The ideas of Stitch-N-Glue construction and massive displacement (like those big gigs) are not mutually exclusive; just use thicker plywood.

I would not be against gigs, but would more favor a dual purpose boat, like the whaleboats used by Outward Bound. These require a crew to sail, or row, whichever weather dictates.

As Paul's suggestion is for a "Wooden Boat" activity, wouldn't FRP-covered wood strip construction be almost as easy, though admittedly more time consuming, as Stitch-n-glue? The advantage with strip would be opportunities for nicer construction techniques, in addition to the expected "quick and dirty" offerings. Most here would tend to favor maximizing aesthetics.

Moby Nick

[garland reese]

I agree about the Whalers. Aside from liking John's 6 meter Whaler (double-ended and split rigged!!), I think that a combination of sailing and rowing would be very good. You could have a trio of events even, with a rowing leg, a sailing leg, and finally, a race which would include both rowing and sailing, perhaps requiring the crews to transistion from rowing to sailing all in the same race. You could have a sailing champ, a rowing champ, and an all around champion. Glued lap or strip sheathed would be a nice mode of construction, as it would allow dry sailing of the boats.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

In Watercraft magazine #35 as part of their series about the Great Glen Raid they featured two boats built by the students at the King Alfred School in London. They are 17' Nigel Irens designed expedition boats. The building of these King Alfred Class boats were featured in Watercraft #25 and #29. Even better than the split rig on the Whaler they have two masts and a mizzen. With the two lug sails on the main and fore masts and a jib and mizzen there are lots of jobs for young crew members. They are strip planked and very beautiful. I'm having scanner problems right now but I'll look around for a pic.
Steven
Oh, their names are Aethelfleda and Aethelswiva for King Alfred's daughters of course smile.gif

[LoonyToo]

The King Alfred Class boats are very nice looking. Here's a link I found to a launching press release about them. King Alfred Class "Expedition Boat" (http://www.sailingnow.com/mag/boats/new_boat/king_a/release.html)

Hal

[N. Scheuer]

LoonyToo has posted pretty much what I had in mind. Glad to see it's already underway with kids. Now to keep it interesting, how about more-or-less "open" rules that permit a lot of design variation? Maybe with a limit for masthead elevation, which would encourage multiple low-aspect sails, but dictate anything too specific?

Moby Nick