paying the hull seams

[rideaubill]

Hi All,

I have a double hulled utility boat 26feet (if that matters?) Stripped most of the bottom, removed old red lead putty and old cotton. I plan to re-cotton the seams and seal. I have heard it is best to apply linseed oil to the cotton and insert it after a coat of paint in the seams. Is that good advice?

The other question is how to pay the seams after the cotton is in...I have heard some say go back to red lead putty (I don't think it's even available in Canada/USA? ) Some say Pettit seam sealer, some Interlux seam cement, some sikaflex..some life caulk.... I'm lost as to what to do! Also finding it hard to find any of the pettit or interlux sealers here in Canada.

Any help would be great!

Bill

[SchoonerRat]

I like Slick Seam

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00730

No priming - easy cleanup - paintable withing a half hour.

It's mostly beeswax, and some people substitute toilet bowl ring wax, but Slick Seam seems to handle better.

[nedL]

More information would be helpful, esp. with your mentioning the "double hulled". Being double planked at 26' there may not have originally been caulking seams, the planking could very well be to thin for that, and cotton may have been added as a 'fix' later on in her life. Or, maybe she was designed & built to be caulked with cotton & seam compound. I guess what I'm saying is we need more info on her construction in order to provide proper direction & guidance. :)

[rideaubill]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5028418&id=603667017#!/album.php?aid=66041&id=603667017&page=5

this is an album with all the boat pics if that helps. outer planks are about 1/2" thick. There was two or so strands of cotton in each seam with red lead putty cover. Not sure what else I can tell you. Been out of the water for two years while I've brought her back to life. there are some areas with 1/8 to almost 1/4" open seams, while others are tight even after being out of the water for a couple years. Is ther e a sence of not replacing the cotton? I would imagine that I would replace it atleast where I have any sizable seams and putty them? If so I have trouble finding seam filler in Canada, do I have to ship it from the US? and if your telling me I could do something different please go right ahead. Felt quite comforatable with everything about ther waterline...but undersides are a foreign puppy to me.

[Soundman67]

where in Canada are you?
SlickSeam worked very well on my friends double planked 55 foot chris.

Doug

[Flitch]

I bought two gallons of red lead putty and three of red lead primer at Steveston Marine in Vancouver...

[nedL]

It looks like your album is on facebook? "Can't get there from here" so to speak". I don't have a log in so I can't see your album.

That aside, 1/2" planking is to thin to do any real 'traditional' kind of caulking with cotton. You mention that some of the seams are 1/4" wide, if this is the case, 1/4" wide x1/2" deep seams aren't going to hold any real cotton anyway. You could probably gently role in some strands of cotton more or less as just 'filler material' so you don't need so much seam compound to fill the seam. Considering she has been out of the water for two years, you might be suprised how much the seams close up when the planking swells, so I would recommend using a seam compound that remains soft so that extra material can squish out as the seams close. Slickseam may be a bit to soft as it may tend to wash out with time. - Just my thougths. :)

[rideaubill]

It did have very little cotton in there so you maybe right. When you say a flexible seam material are you talking interlux seam compond etc? I have heard bad things about slickseam especially it falling out as fast as soft soap.

My plan is to paint the seam, insert some cotton, paint again, seal it with "something" (the something is what I need advice on) then copper anti fouling paint..does this all some right?

I am in Eastern Ontario, also close to the NY state boarder so either area is where I can pick up product.

Fitch: you mentioned buying red lead at Stevestons? I can't seem to see it on their web site, was it something you bought dirrectly at their store...can't seem to find it anywhere outside of England...atleast on the web.

[rideaubill]

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wooden-boat-building-restoration/my-new-project-needing-advice-24768.html

Thsi is an old post on on boatdesign with a few pics. All the topsides have now been redone, but there is a pic of the bottom before I did any work. hope this helps?

[nedL]

OK, so wer're talking about a hard chine, mahogany speedboat bottom. Almost certainly not built with cotton in the seams. Unfortunately I will have to defer to others for recommendations as I would have used something like Pettit's underwater seam compound (but I think they stopped making that years ago). I would also not be against using something like Boatlife 'lifecaulk'. The stuff stays nice & flexible for long enough to squeeze out of the seams after lauching & over time (week or so) it will stiffen up but not harden, and it does not have anything like the tenacity & gluing qualities of 3M5200 (stay away from that!!!). I know there are a lot of people who don't care for Boatlife (it is pricy) and will recommend something else similar & that's fine.

[rideaubill]

They do still sell pettit seam compond at Jamestown distributors I've heard good things about it...but something about labelling..they don't sell it in Canada arrghh, but can have it shipped.

So, what I hear is put some cotton in as a stopper then pay them with something flexible...does the pettit stay flexible?

[Harbormaster]

If it's been out of water for a few years, those planks are likely to swell again, so I'd avoid a putty that won't squeeze out. The Petit brown seam compound stays soft, and I'd say it's the best bet. I'm assuming the inner layer of wood is what really keeps the water out of the boat, if that's the case, just roll the caulking in lightly and put a soft seam compound in there.

[GreggHS]

Wow what at timely thread. I have lots of the same questions. I am in the process of restoring a 27', 1947 Stoutfella Jr. She is an all wood sailboat built by Palmer Johnson. However, it has been out of the water for over 20 years! Seams are all bad. I have half the hull stripped but have not started on the seams themselves other that what I did while stripping it. I used a heat gun as it proved the most effective and I had the option to only work for a few hours at at time if need be. Anyway, I've been looking at various threads on WB and learned about cotton and red lead primer and various seam sealing compounds but at what point do you replace the cotton? How do you know if it is bad? My boat, despite being out of the water so long, is in remarkable shape. the planking is all good except for the top plank on the port side, and the frames all seem sound. I think I may have some fastener issues with the old iron screws and a mix of bronze and brass one installed later but I'm really trying to know how far to go with the seams. Any suggestions or old WB threads anyone can point me to would be greatly appreciated.

[Harbormaster]

Me? I'd pretty much treat it like a new boat for caulking purposes. I'd reef out all of the old caulking, clean the seams real good and lightly caulk her up with fresh cotton. I'd use that same underwater brown gooey seam compound, and above the waterline white stuff. She'll swell quite a bit and if you caulk her too hard she might really stress the fastenings, but I'd still caulk the garboard, stem and deadwood seams pretty hard that's not going to swell all that much.

[rideaubill]

If it's been out of water for a few years, those planks are likely to swell again, so I'd avoid a putty that won't squeeze out. The Petit brown seam compound stays soft, and I'd say it's the best bet. I'm assuming the inner layer of wood is what really keeps the water out of the boat, if that's the case, just roll the caulking in lightly and put a soft seam compound in there.

Thank you so much! Spending this Easter weekend preparing seams for lif\ght cotton and waiting for my Pettit seam sealer to arrive!!

[Flitch]

Fitch: you mentioned buying red lead at Stevestons? I can't seem to see it on their web site, was it something you bought dirrectly at their store...can't seem to find it anywhere outside of England...atleast on the web.

Sorry for the lag time. I have always been able to find it by asking for it at both Steveston marine in Steveston (not on West 3rd) or at Nikka Marine across the street. I am at both stores next weekend if you want me to check.
Flitch

[rideaubill]

Sorry for the lag time. I have always been able to find it by asking for it at both Steveston marine in Steveston (not on West 3rd) or at Nikka Marine across the street. I am at both stores next weekend if you want me to check.
Flitch

Thanks for that...found it..finally..in Toronto at Tendercraft

http://www.tendercraftboats.com/index.html

It's like looking to buy heroin..feel like a you need to know somebody and do the special knock at the door!!!

Very warm at this end of the country getting some real work done on the boat 25c in April..in Canada wow!

[drrishi1]

It did have very little cotton in there so you maybe right. When you say a flexible seam material are you talking interlux seam compond etc? I have heard bad things about slickseam especially it falling out as fast as soft soap.

My plan is to paint the seam, insert some cotton, paint again, seal it with "something" (the something is what I need advice on) then copper anti fouling paint..does this all some right?

I am in Eastern Ontario, also close to the NY state boarder so either area is where I can pick up product.

Fitch: you mentioned buying red lead at Stevestons? I can't seem to see it on their web site, was it something you bought dirrectly at their store...can't seem to find it anywhere outside of England...atleast on the web.

red lead is available here

http://www.kirbypaint.com/