PDA

View Full Version : were you ever hazed at school?



S.V. Airlie
03-31-2010, 10:30 AM
The case in MA brought this thought to the forefront. Hazing has been a way of life and there are many out there who have been hazed. Today, however, hazing appears to be much worse because of texting, Facebook etc...there is no respite. I don't have any ereal answers just one idea that obviously won't go over...

Have the parents take away the bloody cell phones. Kids really don't need them...until the kids go to college.

Make the parents more responsible for their actions/control of their kids.

In the MA case, hold the school, which was aware of what was going on, more accountable.

And yes, I was hazed endlessly.. I survived...

Phillip Allen
03-31-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm not sure what constitutes hazing for others...I called it bullying in my case and I was beset for years in school...I have little tolerance for it now but childhood is beyond recovery...

S.V. Airlie
03-31-2010, 10:48 AM
I'm not sure what constitutes hazing for others...I called it bullying in my case and I was beset for years in school...I have little tolerance for it now but childhood is beyond recovery...


Okay Bullyiing works...

Phillip Allen
03-31-2010, 10:55 AM
I suppose I could write volumes about it...but I don't have the energy

once any kid has shown that he is "safe" to bully, that bullying intensifies and follows him

it's similar on this forum if the bully gets a rise out of someone and is supported by another...the thing escalates...this forum is rife with enablers. I stick around (partly) as a duty to my younger self because I wouldn't fight back then...now I will...hammer and tongs!

Ian McColgin
03-31-2010, 11:11 AM
There is a difference between hazing and bullying. Hazing is a sort of initiation rite whereby those who pass join the local elite and the failures suffer. It can grow from mildly wierding pranks to truly dangerous and sadistic crimes but still remains distinct from bullying where an individual or sometimes a group exercise a grim dominance over those weaker.

The only physical bully who tried anything on me was in 6th grade. He was a great deal stronger and bigger than I, but I got it into my insane little head that I'd die before giving in and after a while slugging a screaming little jerk to the ground bores even the most mindless.

All careful students of cultures know that both hazing and bullying have cycles but that nothing today is more extreme than things in the past, though perhaps technologically different a little.

At one time hazing might have helped a new hunter prepare for the encounter that proves his manhood. Later with technology a dueling scar might be the badge of initiation. And now a sorority expands defoliation to taking on the football front line, with phone pix.

Same with bullying, except bullying has not really advanced so much with technology as that interferes with the key psychological satisfaction for the bully, the direct flesh to flesh.

I think for hazing a combination of cultural education as children grow and learn of both productive and really stupid initiation rituals will help them as they make their own secret societies to create rituals that at least are not too physically or psychologically damaging.

Bullying takes two adult responses. On the one hand adults need to identify and correct young bullies. But adults cannot simply take the place of a kid to stop a bully. So on the other, adults need to teach children (without blaming the victim) the many many different ways of how not to be victims.

Nicholas Scheuer
03-31-2010, 11:17 AM
Yes, which accounts for why I wouldn't stand for it on my School Bus when I did that for a few years.

The culprits would object strongly, but our school system has a lot of discipline problems, and Bus Drivers are given a lot of backup when they want to take the trouble to maintain order on the buses. The culprits never seem to figure out that the kids who get in trouble on the buses are well-known in school for the same behavior. Very rerely does a concientious student behave badly on the bus.

Moby Nick

Joe (SoCal)
03-31-2010, 11:42 AM
Ahhhhh fun times, fun times. My mother divorced 4 times before I entered middle school. We also moved almost twice a year and went to 8 different schools by the time I was in the 8th grade. So I was always The NEW kid. My life was a living breathing Darwinian survival of the fittest competition.

I will admit that sometimes I was bullied OK all the time I was bullied, until I got it into my head to NOT be bullied. I had a strong mother who once told me when I got chased home from Donald Miller that if I didn't go back down and Take Care of it she would take care of me. At that point of life I was more afraid of my mother than Donald, so I went down and kicked ass, and me and Donald became best friends. I have give my mom credit for being a strong single mother, must have been hard to do that.

After that when I went to a new school I would swing first and talk later. I was always the smallest kid in the class but I was a pit bull in a fight. I also had compassion for other kids who were bullied. I remember once on the bus there was this "special" girl. She was teased horribly. One day I had it, the BMOC Jock older kid was playing like he was flirting with her and she was so taken with his affection that she was unaware of his mocking her for the whole bus. So little Joe, stood up and said knock it off. Everyone gasped cause jock boy ruled the bus. He looked at me and said shut up schmuck. I said get off the bus next stop. Saying that on the bus always meant a fight. He was like Ohhh yea. We got off the bus and with a bunch of spectators and here was this big football jock and scrawny little me. He shoved me hard and I hit the ground and everyone laughed. I got up and went at him like pitbull. I got a couple good licks in but he beat the crap out of me. I got back up and went back at him. He punched me and gave me a bloody lip and nose. I got back up and KEPT getting back up. He was made to look like the bully he was cause this little boy kept standing up no mater what. In the end he just looked sad and I looked like a mess, but I was still standing.

The next time on the bus the jock was egged on to continue his taunt on the special needs girl, and I just stood up and he stopped.

These days with the web, Twitter, facebook & texting its way more than just standing up to a bully and given the emotional nature of young girls I can see how this sad suicide happened.

Keith Wilson
03-31-2010, 01:43 PM
No hazing; they didn't do that at the schools I went to. No significant bullying either. I was always large for my age, although peaceable, and there were easier targets.

skuthorp
03-31-2010, 02:18 PM
Came down from the country to a 'good' school with a reputation for 'initiations' and bullys. Solved my problems with a cricket bat in the first week. Left severely alone after that which suited, but the school and I agreed to part eventually as they weren't prepared for civil disobedience. Colored my attitude to children all my life I suspect.

woodrat
03-31-2010, 04:18 PM
I was bullied and hazed relentlessly in 6th and seventh grades. I was a smart, nerdy fat kid with glasses, and an obvious target. Switched to a private school for 8-10, and somewhat bullied there, too, but at a way lower frequency and pitch, and it mostly ended after the first few months. By the time I went back to public school for 11-12 with the same people I had been in 6th and 7th with, I was a very much larger and taller nerdy fat dude, without the glasses, and was pretty much left completely alone by those same people who had tormented me in middle school.

My youngest daughter had nothing but trouble at the schools here where our land is, constant and cruel bullying, mostly from the "town" girls. She would punch them, and then land in trouble herself. The administration and teachers did nothing to punish the kids who were bullying her, but every time she fought back she got into trouble. We moved the kids to a larger town for school, and that stuff stopped almost completely. There is still some mean girl stuff floating around, but it doesn't consume her like it did at the previous school.

Oldest daughter was homeschooled until 9th grade, so she skipped right over all that horrible middle school stuff. I think her first year in HS was a little lonely, but she eventually found her group there, and has no troubles like that at all.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-31-2010, 04:29 PM
I was bullied kind of like Joe. I was skinny and small, and mouthy. Not a good combo. I got punched out a few times, but as I got older, I learned to fight a lot dirtier, and that made up for my size. Being bullyed is not fun, and even standing up to being bullyed isn't fun, but it beats just standing there taking it.

htom
03-31-2010, 04:30 PM
Both. We all survived. I don't have many male friends from those places.

Harbormaster
03-31-2010, 05:06 PM
Don't know if it counts as either hazing or bullying, but I was beat up a number of times. I was a chubby, unathletic, jewish kid in a predominantly Catholic public school. I was fair game for most of them.

Old Sailor
04-01-2010, 03:57 AM
I beat the s###t out of him.
Old Sailor

downthecreek
04-01-2010, 04:24 AM
No.

ChaseKenyon
04-01-2010, 04:57 AM
Well I was a musicain and a ladies man in HS. Had 4.5 years of chef school in 4H and was cooking professionally as asst chef at 16. Was a "ringer" in CT for over 10 orchestras as a cellist. We play anything, bassoon to french horn parts, in all four clefs! Was not interested in team sports, founded the ski club and ski team instead. So I took my share of harrassment, even back to elementary school as red on the head like a dk on a dog and all that ****.

Had to get into U of H for a Baroque composition 200 level class I was teaching in the afternoon one HS junior day in the spring of 67. We were finishing up as last gym class of the day with the national fitness trials for the 600 yard dash. One of the school bullies a year ahead of me, Steve Weibust ( trombone player) grabbed my towel and shirt and swiss automatic Zodiac (like a rolex then) watch and would not give them back when we clocked out.

I walked up and demanded them and all he did was throw them behind him and say come take them. I went to walk past him and he started punching me in the chest with both hands. I said "Steve, you know I have a class to teach at U of H we both are on the early student program, I don't have time for this." He kept punching me in the chest. I finally took one punch as a left jab to his jaw so I could walk by him on the right. I did not know it flattened him instantly, out for the count, till the next day. So for the next 4 weeks openly everyone talked about how I kicked steves a$$. No one would believe I hit him just hard enough to get by him. ??? NO hip, no leg, no shoulder, no twist , no back, nothing of force to really hit him, just forearm (a cellist's forearm however usually wins 99% of arm wrestling encounters though) to stop his movement towards me.

THe next year my senior year I had to add team sports for West Point and Air Force Academy nominations so played soccer and wrestled, that's another story.

BTW Steve was easy as I was already an accomplished fencer in the art of Epee' but only three people in the HS knew of that. :D:D:D:D

George Jung
04-01-2010, 07:54 AM
Didn't do 'town school' until 8th grade - five years of misery followed. Lots of cliques in small towns, and if you weren't part of one, you were toast. I always had four plus big guys pick on me - and I was one of the smallest kids in school, until I finally started growing end of junior year. Never understood that until years after grad - it seems my uncles, all since left that area for California, were an ornery bunch, and kicked the crap out of this mobs dads, most likely. So I came to school with a reputation - but didn't know it. And although there was a bunch of us lil' guys targeted, we didn't have the brains to stick together. About junior year, I had a better handle on it - but once your 'reputation' of being bulliable (word?) is made, it follows. The pecking order is established. I determined to last out the aholes in highschool, and re-invent myself for college - the way I wanted to be perceived. And I didn't take crap from then on, from anyone (including the professors). An interesting aside - after HS graduation, I managed to track down many of my old tormentors - but then it was one on one. They weren't nearly so confident and cocky in that situation. Got most of them paid back in full. I don't return for reunions, either.

New fed guidelines apparently mandate schools ensure bullying doesn't happen - and there can be significant fallout if it occurs. My youngest daughter was being bullied by a group of nasty girls at our state One Acts - same crap they had pulled year earlier. Their drama director caught me coming in for the shows, to talk to me. I mentioned these same guidelines, and shortly after, the teacher met with these girls. They were incredibly well-behaved after that. I suspect the spector of them and their wealthy parents being hauled into court for these charges may have gotten someones attention.

Interesting topic; interesting how the responses line up with the personalities, too. Being victimized changes you. This same crap also goes a long ways towards explaining Columbine. That wasn't an option when I was a kid - but once one school did it, and they publicized it like they did - it's on the list of options from here on out.

elf
04-01-2010, 08:09 AM
Too many people. Classes too big. Too many children the same age in groups. No adult supervision. No consequences.

No wonder we are endlessly at war.

Bullying is the norm for human society.

Keith Wilson
04-01-2010, 08:23 AM
FWIW, it seems that most schools around here are now taking bullying very seriously. Not that they can stop it altogether, but the days of turning a blind eye and letting the kids work it out themselves are over.

Mrleft8
04-01-2010, 08:25 AM
Hell.....I'm still bullied nearly every day.

George Jung
04-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Marriage - what an Institution!

LeeG
04-01-2010, 04:38 PM
nope, I lost a fight to a girl in 3rd grade and a boy in 4th grade. In 8th and 9th grades two girls flirted with me and I didn't know what to do then either.

bamamick
04-02-2010, 12:07 PM
No, I was not. To be honest, even though I had my share of schoolyard fights and there were sometimes run-ins on the football field, I really just don't remember anything specific that could have ever been considered hazing.

I was asked by a buddy of mine if I wanted to rush for a high school fraternity. I asked him if they were into all of that spanking and hazing gradu. He sheepishly said 'yeah, but it's not that bad after you get in and are settled'. I told him no thanks. My dad disciplined me pretty hard as a kid and I was damned if I was going to volunteer to allow anyone else to do it. It's another reason I turned down the Coast Guard Academy. By that age I had a pretty good idea of what was right and wrong, and being told the one was the other to make some sort of point that you could do so and get away with it was just something I wanted no part of.

I guess I have been lucky.

Mickey Lake

JMAC
04-02-2010, 09:13 PM
I was knifed by a kid on the front steps of my Jr. High on a Saturday morning. 2" cut down my back, through my jean jacket and shirt. The kid apologized like hell as I did a lot of bleeding. Fun... I did some bullying and got bullied, had my last fight in 7th grade wood shop with another kid, well 2nd to last...., we had an ooold sub that day who sent us to the principle's office, out the door we went, never did make it to the office though....

AussieBarney
04-03-2010, 05:19 AM
I was bullied really badly when I was in the sixth class at the sate school I attended. The principal knew it was happening but did nothing to stop it. He reckoned it was ok to bully the skinny little Aboriginal kid. It went on for two terms I had my nose broken, lost a tooth and sundry others cuts and contusions. It stopped when after being chased into a alne way I stopped, spun round with a fence paling in my hand and hit the first pursurer in the face, put him in hospital for 4 months. When the police investigated they refused to press charges. The sergant in chrage said the kid shoulkd not have chased me into the lane way. Called it self defence. this was thirty eight years ago, I saw the guy about twelve month back and he still wears the scar. funny thing was, when he saw me he crossed the street, he was smart.

PeterSibley
04-03-2010, 05:33 AM
Yep ,I was bullied but fixed that eventually .I also engaged in bullying a kid who was different from we Anglos .I wish I could find him and apologise .

Kids are cruel stupid little bastards at their worst and brilliant at their best ,speaking personally here .

Sorry Bouyer .

bobbys
04-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Growing up in New Jersey was a bit rough, .

In Grammar school Giant Eyetalian kids with mustaches and Irish kids with chips on there shoulders lurked ready to engage with the Marquis of Queens berry rules disregarded by popular demand..

I wuz surprised by the brutality inflected on little ole me till i figures it wuz child play compared to my Dads and brothers beating.

My best move wuz a tickle torture followed by a flying jersey lindy drop kick which Sister Mary Margret taught me .

coelacanth2
04-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Yup. About every 5 years or so, the kids in school would forget, and somebody would get hurt. Badly. I was the prototypical short, fat glasses wearing, SF reading model building science dweeb. Didn't do organized sports, loathed tennis when Mom tried to get me interested, Dad was out of the picture from a massive stroke when I was 8. I was the only one in the house suited to heavy work, so I mowed the lawn (3/4 acre) with a push reel mower (power mower too dangerous, dontcha know:rolleyes:), hand raked it, shoveled a good sized driveway in the winter and the like. To challenge myself, I'd carry the trashcans down the driveway one handed, at arms length if I could. Mom didn't have the time to drive me, ride the bike 10 to 30 miles a day, depending. Did get a couple of years of Judo in at the local YMCA (8 miles one way) but at 11 years old, 5'2" and 205 I was in the adult class. By this time, Dad was home from the hospitals and rehabs and if he tipped his wheelchair over, I could pick him up and put him back in, and if necessary, carry him up stairs. In the wheelchair. Dad was 6' and about 200 lbs. Quite honestly, Mom really didn't understand boys, esp of the time - 40+ years ago - and thought that childhood should be like Louisa Mae Alcott's Little women andLittle Men. I wasn't supposed to fight, that JUST WASN'T DONE and if I came home scuffed up, I must have done something to make him mad, it must be my fault, you have to control your temper better and apologise more, why couldn't you just be a good boy:rolleyes:. About that time, my folks had had about the only real knock-down, drag out fight I'd ever seen them have...both very rational controlled reasonable people, and it scared and angered me. When I told them to stop, I got told, brusquely, to go mind my own business. I went to the shop, picked up a little iron prybar we had - 1/4" inch thick, 1.5" wide, walked upstairs, tore it in half like you'd tear a sheet of paper, put the bits on the kitchen table and told them that they were going to listen to me. I was 11... So I learned to hold it in...
6th grade wasn't a great year - new school, new kids, closest friend was in another school. Couple kids decided, since I wouldn't fight back, I was easy meat. One skinny little monkey, his buddy had got the early growth spurt and was almost as tall as the homeroom teacher (Mr. Daniels, RIP, decent man) Coming out of art class, going back to English, I kept feeling a tugging on my hair which, as was the fashion, was a bit long. Every time I turned around, one of the two was there, grinning - I ignored them. Got to class, sat down, went to scratch the back of my head, it was loaded with art clay. You know, the oily stuff that's rather adhesive... . The teacher had to cut it out with a scissors and I had a heck of a patchy bald spot. I told him who I thought had done it. So I waited outside by the lockers for the next 3 periods, until the monkey showed up. I asked him if he'd done it, put the clay in my hair. If he'd said yes, I'd probably have left it, but he didn't. He lied to me. The first throw didn't quite break him, so I sat down and tried to pull his head off. Mr. Daniels had to punch me as hard as he could to get my attention, and politely asked me to let him go. The monkey went home, was out for 3 days and came back in a neck brace. Mr. D figured he'd better nip the rest of it quickly, so he pulled the other kid up to face me and asked him if he'd had anything to do with the clay. Again, if he'd told the truth... but he didn't. I picked him up with my left hand around his neck, held him off the ground at arm's length and began to beat him with my right. I got another punch in the head and a polite request to put him down. He went home and came back 3 days later with his neck black and blue from jaw to collarbones. Admin never bothered [U]me, and I was left alone till high school. SOSDD this time with the captains of the basketball and football teams. Simultaneously. Same thing in college - Floor captain's roommate was a bullying jerk, on the rugby team, etc. I took the nonsense for half a year, he pulled something truly disgusting, and ran and hid in his room. This was the football/rugby dorm, the doors were solid and doorframes reinforced. I kicked the first door at the hinges and blew the lock out of the jamb, and started pounding my way through the second door. The campus cop who showed up knew me from my evening job of running the biology building night labs, so he, calmly, asked me why I was going after the RA's roomie. I explained why, and we had a quick meet with the Dean of Students. He started to come down on me and I told him that I was perfectly justified in what I had done, I had taken as much as I cared to, that I wasn't going to pay for the repairs, and if the creep didn't leave me alone after an abject apology, I was perfectly justified in what came next, and it would be HIS fault. Didn't hear anything more about that, either. Boy, do I enjoy adulthood. No cretins. Civil disagreement, I can deal with.

johnw
04-03-2010, 02:21 PM
By the time I got out of high school, I'd been in 12 different schools (Air Force brat.) My observation is that the smaller the group of kids, the more bullying I saw. Bigger schools seemed to allow people to find their own group.

ishmael
04-04-2010, 06:58 AM
Interesting thread.

When I was maybe thirteen, some friends and I used to hang out at the railroad tracks. A long wind through the country back to a high tressle. A beautiful spot.

Various factions, cliques, hung out there. The two main ones were the Racks and the Surfs. I stayed clear of that, but it was there. The Racks were largely Italian boys, with greased back hair and shiny shoes, the Surfs wannabe Beach Boys, hence the name.

One day my friend and I were back there, and there were kids in the Racks chucking rocks at a car carrier, breaking windows and generally causing trouble.

The railroad dicks picked up my friend and me, and sat us in the back of The Car. I told what I saw. I wasn't a rat by nature, but I thought what they were doing was wrong and said so.

The next school day, the word had gotten around. I was harassed a bit by the Racks, called a rat. I was large for my age, and athletic, so they didn't dare attack me physically, but I'd broken the code of silence.

So, in answer to the question, no, not hazed. But that school year was one of wariness.

It passed.