My friends think I'm crazy (1961 Alden)

[vandashner]

So, I'm sending it out to the universe (of wooden boat lovers). . .

Ever since I saw and read about this boat - http://bit.ly/6jnGu1 - I felt like it was the one for me.

Naturally, my friends (some of whom have a great deal of sailing expertise) tell me I'm out of my mind, likely to waste all my money and don't know what I'm getting myself into - they're probably right, but it hasn't stopped me before.

I'm opening this up to the knowledgeable audience on this forum. Feel free to concur with my friends, or offer your best advice - constructive or otherwise. I feel like this one was built for me.

Pros:

1. I live in Sarasota - avg. bay depth is 6'. With the centerboard up the Laissez Faire draws a bit more than 5'.

2. For over 30 years I've wanted a ketch big enough to live on full-time yet nimble enough for me to sail by myself. From what I've read, the Laissez Faire was designed to be exactly that boat.

3. It appears that the Laissez Faire was well-maintained and updated to be "newer" than a 50 year old boat.

Cons:

1. I'm not much of a sailor, but I'm not afraid to devote the time and attention required. One of my friends solo-sails a 58' ketch 3-5 days/week in good weather, so I'm not without training resources.

2. The Laissez Faire has been out of water during the engine rebuild and is currently in a shed on Manhasset Bay, Long Island.

3. I plan to keep it in Florida and I'm told that insect pests here eat wooden boats for lunch and dinner.

4. It's expensive, and perhaps costs more than it's worth.

*****

So let loose, folks. Tell me what you think I need to know and who knows it. Who should be the expert to examine/inspect the boat late this spring or summer. How to Florida-ify it if that's possible, who could do it, how long it lasts and what it might cost.

Let me know what I'm in for - the good, and the bad.

I've got better pictures but they're pretty much the same ones you see on the website.

Thanks in advance,

Van

[pefjr]

I agree with your friends

[outofthenorm]

Well, on one level your friends are right. You are nuts.

But on another level, you're in good company.

The first and best advice I can offer is to get your own survey from a qualified person who understands both the style of boat and the waters she's going into. Someone will be along soon who may have a name for you.

My overall comment is that she's a lot of boat for a newbie. Even if she's in near perfect shape now, her routine maintenance demands in your climate will be substantial. I'm talking just routine paint, varnish and system upkeep that will add up to a lot of time and money. Ask around the local marinas and get a sense of what other owners of similar boats are spending in time and money. Then double it.

If there is overhaul work to do .... well, hang on cuz it can be a bumpy ride.

The decision has a lot to do with big money, so spend some small money and get a survey BEFORE you fall in love.

Good Luck.

Norm

[Henning 4148]

50 ft is a lot. If it turns out to be a mistake, it will be a big mistake.

;-)

Do you have the money? Not just for buying, but for upkeep / maintenance / repair? Just a very rough guess - others may have far better figures - perhaps 15 % of what you pay for her per year as repair and maintenance budget? Every year - and in the years, where you do not spend it, you save it for the years when you need to spend more ...

Do you have the skill to navigate a 5 ft + draft boat in 6 ft av. water? Are the charts in that area good enough for that? Average water depth doesn't help a lot if you are high and dry.

Do you feel a lot like wanting to be young again, irresponsible etc? Learning new lessons from experience, be it good or bad?

If you have three yes - go for it!!!! Have a proper survey done by someone who really knows what he is doing and then reconsider. Apparently, the boat has been out of the water for a fair bit of time, there might be problems from drying out - such problems can be expensive.

Oh - and reconsider the "single handed" - it may work well when underway, but when maneuvering in close quarters, docking etc, having at least two crew on board can make all the difference between successfully making fast on a windward dock and standing on the windward dock and seeing your proud ship head for new places without anyone on the helm. You are not going to hold a 50 footer in strong winds - and you will have to go off the boat to tie her up.

So yes - it would probably be an adventure. But someone's got to do it.

;-)

[paladin]

That's a helluva lotta boat......but consider that it will be a one person, full time job, and an average cost of about 20K per year just to keep that boat up, plus insurance and someplace to park it....when I say 20K, that's an average of restitching sails, varnish, paint, new running/standing rigging every 3-5 years.....it will cost you a minimum 20K cold hard cash plus 1000-1500 honest manual labor hours per year and heaven help you is you find an uncharted rock, get stuck etc and need to pay someone for outside assistance.
If you want a full time liveaboard, just you and maybe one more person, with a boat that you can afford....may I suggest something like a Lyle Hess 34/35 footer and then sail it/maintain it yourself. It will cost you about the same, without the noose around your neck.

[ripley699]

Well !!
You don't say how new to this type of boat you might be...Knowing exactly what you are getting into is THE important item...The size of the boat doesn't bother me,though The upkeep would .
If you are experienced at maintaining a wooden boat then you are already half way home.
If you are used to F.G. boats then your learning curve would be straight up !!

Please tell us...Are you familiar with wooden boat maintenance?

Handleing a 50 foot boat can be a handful,,,but if it is really set up right then it won't be bad...Only you know what you REALLY can handle..I have single handed a 47' often...Only time I wished I had 2 more pairs of hands is when docking or grabbing a mooring in the wind..Again,only you know your abilities...Please tell us more so that we can honestly offer adice.

[Roger Long]

It will cost you about the same, without the noose around your neck.

You'd better listen to this man. I wouldn't accept a boat like that for free, even with a clean survey, unless I was sure I could put 30 grand a year into "housing". Some chunk of that would be put away for major surprises like needing refastening.

Unless you have a level of experience that wouldn't require you to be asking this question, you may not be able to get insurance for a boat of that size and age. That means you won't be able to keep it in most marinas or have it hauled in most boat yards.

[JimConlin]

I agree with Roger and Chuck.

[rbgarr]

If I were looking for a wood liveaboard with features like that boat I'd go with this one : http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2046756&checked_boats=2046756&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=24744&url=

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Roger and Chuck comments agreed with, and even if you decide to go ahead... a VERY comprehensive survey.

I don't like the expoxy ply over the teak decks. In my humble opinion, the boats with a generally better pedigree should be maintained as they were built. It's all very well to have Swanson as the former owner, and the Alden name, but to have some goop thrown down on the decks, and the bright cabin sides painted.... ouch. That makes me suspicious.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the current owner has done only absolutely required restoration, and not done it the right way.... then initially wanted the huge dollars that the provenance would provide IF the boat was maintained the way it should have been. A lot of this type of boat falls into hard times based on owners who just don't have the money/skill (can you say money?) to keep a boat like this (as chuck said).

For $150,000 bucks you can buy a LOT of nice boats right now....but if this old girl really has your heart, make sure the due diligence is done... or that you have dddddeeeeeepppp pockets. A boat like that could hiccup and cost you $50,000 dollars if you need the work professionally done.

[CharlieCobra]

Why would anyone paint the brightwork on the cabin like that? What a shame...

Way too much money for that boat...

[Mike Vogdes]

She has been for sale for 4 years and the price dropped 100K in that time... Keep that in mind when you get tired of her and its time to sell.

[davebrown]

i am troubled by the notorious shallow water in FL with that draft, which you mention. second, in this economy, who is going to FINANCE that boat? it has to be bought cash out of pocket, for the most part...or by someone whose wealth is unencumbered by other liens. three years ago someone was walking into a marina with a home equity agreement to lend in their pocket, and writing a check. ain't going to happen now. here in northern california, no one can finance these big lluxury items right now. they are giving them away, and the usual story seems to be right after they haven't been able to pay for the maintenance for oh, three or four years.

what you are about to do sounds like something i would jump right into.

[Tom3]

You're friends are right Van, but you have good taste. I thought the exact same thing when I saw that Alden on the yachtworld. I have a much smaller 1961 Alden yawl so that type of boat has grown on me.

As everyone has said, the only important thing is finding the true wooden boat surveyor that everyone goes to in that area. It should be a very indepth survey on a boat like that. There's sure to be a lot of things that will need attention right now and bigger things down the road.

You have to know if, no,... when she will start getting "tired" as I've heard used for a wooden hull that will need anything from a refastening to a complete rebuild. And this condition could require just as epic a yard bill in a 50 year old glass boat as well. Spars alone on that boat could be very good, or very bad. You likely can't tell yourself.

But having said that, that boat struck me as the perfect liveaboard. I'd have absolutely no use for it as just a sailboat. Too much stuff going on for me for enjoyable coastal sailing.

As a liveaboard though, I'd look at it differently with sailing as a lesser priority. It fits the bill. A very nice moving home on the water, you can sail.

Having a wooden cabin house on my 50 year old Alden, the now glassed house and decks on that boat will require little maintenance in comparison, and should be good for the span of your likely use as a dwelling.

It lost a lot of character with that drastic change, but it may have been beyond saving. And the lower maintenance result may be a plus for your idea.

That boat is not alone either. The big ones with falling prices on the internet. I watch them. Another nice aspect of them is they're located around the world. The other day I noticed one already in Venice Italy....

[zertgold]

I live in Sarasota, Fl. there are not too many wooden boats another one would be great :).
There are two that i know of:

I bet you are familiar with this one since it is always out in the bay by O'leary's.
( I did classify her wrong, she is not a schooner.)
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98099

My boat is an atkins Eric built in 1969. She has spent the last 15 years in Florida. I haven't seen any bugs, but worms are what i watch for. Bottom paint every year with monthly underwater inspection is needed.

Sarasota Bay is great for a 5 foot draft. That is what my boat has, and I don't have a depth meter. Most of the bay is 10-12 feet. You just need to know where you are going.

There is a yard in St. Pete that is comfortable with wooden boats and older rigs. Saltcreek Marina.

I would suggest a smaller liveaboard at first though. Until you find what you are looking for.

[richincident]

Having read through this thread I have to say I am in favor of starting a bit smaller and seeing how it goes FIRST. As mentioned, you are IN for 20K a year with this boat, and deferring is NOT an option. You could lose the boat and THAT would be a terrible thing. PLUS it SOUNDS like you have neither sailing nor wood boat upkeep experience, though perhaps I have that wrong. This would be the wrong place to start getting it! A smaller, less expensive boat would make for a more reasonable level of risk. I LOVE wooden boats, but I only have a dinghy--I don't have sufficient time OR money to purchase the Herreshoff of my dreams, so I sail a Soverel 28 with lovely lines.

This forum is a great resource though--if you have the dollars and can't stop the feelings, then come back here for ongoing advice and comfort.

IF you can't stop yourself I would offer close to 100K and see if you can negotiate down. The survey is step number ONE if you decide you are ready to part with your dollars!