Strip Building a Canoe Yawl

[trango]

Dear all,

I'm soon finishing my current project and while looking for the next boat to build I came across pathfinder - a design that I find very appealing. However, living in Sweden, loyd classified ply is both expensive and difficult to obtain. This is rather strange since the hole country is crowded with wood. Anyway, my father in law have an unlimited access to high quality wood and he also have a perfect sawing-mill... Poor me...

So, is there any comparable design that you think could be built using solid wood and the strip-building technique? I'm looking for something around 17´ in length?

I would really appreciate a some suggestions!

[keyhavenpotterer]

The D18-Myst is a strip plank design of great beauty

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/myst_images/049.jpg

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/buildd18.htm

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/myst_images/015.jpg

Transom stern as is John Welsford's Pathfinder. If it has to be canoe stern, perhaps one of Iain Oughtred's double enders in strip plank.

Brian

[KAIROS]

William Garden's "Eel" design can be built strip. It's 18'6" and 1500 lbs. Outstanding for it's size. Open boat or with cuddy cabin. Mine had the cabin.

http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/otter.gif

[trango]

Thank you for pointing in the right direction, both Myst and the Eel are very beautiful boats! First I though that the Eel would be to advanced and large, but after chewing on it for a while - I see no reason why I shouldn't try. So far, I've only built rather "simple" boats and maybe it is time to move forward - that is the only way to learn more.

I'll order the studyplans today...

/Fredrik

[KAIROS]

My Eel was coldmolded, and I did not build it. However, I have seen one at least that was strip built. And it is noted as a construction method in the '30 Wooden Boats' book at the WB store (where I scanned the drawings above). So at least there is nothing about it that precludes strip construction. It was not designed with strip in mind though, so it is probably not as easy as another designed with strip constr. in mind.

So, it probably is challenging for amatuers, but you've had some experience. Maybe talk to an expert on strip about Eel.

All that, but then there's this. I can't imagine a more capable boat for her size and weight:

http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/otter_gbay_72dpi.jpg

[Brumenschenkel]

You may want to have a look at Siri, Doug Hylan's interpretation of Iris from the canoe yawl craze of the 1890's. Beautiful craft with very detailed drawings. Enjoy your studies!

http://www.dhylanboats.com

[Chipito]

I'm currently building a Bolger canoe yawl that was designed to be strip planked although I've modified the construction somewhat. The design is #433, I don't think it was built before now and doesn't have a name. Here's the link to the few pictures that I have uploaded...
Jeff
http://picasaweb.google.com/smallcraftjeff

[Steve Paskey]

Paul Fisher in England has a really lovely 16-foot canoe yawl for strip planking ... the Casco Bay Canoe Yawl:

www.selway-fisher.com/DoubleEs.htm#CASCO

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Cascod1.gif

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Cascop2.jpg

[klondike]

Otter was sailed by it's first owner (Kairos?) from Anacortes Wa. to Juneau AK. in early Spring of 1981. That should speak volumes about the capability of the EEL.
My EEL - Odalisque - was the open version and built in the same shop in 1980.

[trango]

Dear all,

Thank you for all suggestions - this actually starts to feel problematic as all designs are very beautiful - on the other hand - beauty is the hallmark of canoe yawls.

Chipito - your boat looks very good! Looking forward to see her finished. Anyway, this is my latest build - not by far as impressive, but she has been very rewarding to build...

http://picasaweb.google.com/109717866750825996173/TheHonkerByBateau#.

/fredrik

[Brumenschenkel]

Klondike,

Did you ever experience any problems with the lifting rudder and tiller of the Eel design? I have often wondered what the effects of moving the rudder further aft would be on handling. Comments anyone?

[trango]

Klondike,

Did you ever experience any problems with the lifting rudder and tiller of the Eel design? I have often wondered what the effects of moving the rudder further aft would be on handling. Comments anyone?

Hmm, good question. I guess the balance would be affected - but for better or worse I have no idea!

I also have a question - maybe I get an opportunity to harvest some lumber during ester - do anyone have any suggestions for the final dimensions of the strips when building something like the eel? What is a typical thickness of the hull planking? I've previously built a kayak but I guess I should use other dimensions on a larger boat? I will of course order plans but I have not chance to get them during this week...


/F

[willmarsh3]

If it's any guide the thickness of the hull on my Elver - a 20 foot canoe yawl is 3/4". I have a copy of the plans for the Eel which is high on my list of next boats to build - I'll look at it tonight.

[trango]

If it's any guide the thickness of the hull on my Elver - a 20 foot canoe yawl is 3/4". I have a copy of the plans for the Eel which is high on my list of next boats to build - I'll look at it tonight.

Great - much appreciated!

/Fredrik

[KAIROS]

Otter was sailed by it's first owner (Kairos?) from Anacortes Wa. to Juneau AK. in early Spring of 1981. That should speak volumes about the capability of the EEL.
My EEL - Odalisque - was the open version and built in the same shop in 1980.

The original owner was Bruce Baker. He sailed/rowed/motored north. I bought OTTER from him in Tee Harbor (north or Juneau) and made the 45 day passage back to near Anacortes. She is now in Victoria BC, I think. I suggest her as a build here because the result could be incredibly nice. But it wouldn't be as easy a build as most others.

The lifting skeg rudder was no problem in these deep waters on the west coast. You just raised it and steered with an oar off the quarter when beaching. Long ago I planned to build one for use on a shallow bay on the east coast. I wanted to change the rudder to 'kick-up' style. Wrote to Garden twice asking for his input. Never got a response. Later I heard he was not as open as some NAs to entertaining changes to his finished designs. But maybe he just never got the letters.

Here (http://www.yachtflyers.com/otter/) (more photos) I used OTTER as the subject of an example advertisement to sell a classic boat (I am no longer in that business).

[willmarsh3]

I looked at the Eel plans - for strip plank it calls for 3/4" and shows bead and cove strips that are edge nailed then smoothed and sheathed in fiberglass cloth.

[klondike]

"Did you ever experience any problems with the lifting rudder and tiller of the Eel design? I have often wondered what the effects of moving the rudder further aft would be on handling. Comments anyone?"

No, I have no problem with the design. It is very robust. I have run it into mud/sand quite a few times but the centerboard lifts first. It has been sailed
with an steering oar that fits into a mounted block on the stern.
If a kick-up rudder is desired, I wonder if a joint in the shaft just above the blade would not do the trick without changing the balance.
I would try it as designed first rather than worring a problem which in my opinion does not exist.

[trango]

The original owner was Bruce Baker. He sailed/rowed/motored north. I bought OTTER from him in Tee Harbor (north or Juneau) and made the 45 day passage back to near Anacortes. She is now in Victoria BC, I think. I suggest her as a build here because the result could be incredibly nice. But it wouldn't be as easy a build as most others.

The lifting skeg rudder was no problem in these deep waters on the west coast. You just raised it and steered with an oar off the quarter when beaching. Long ago I planned to build one for use on a shallow bay on the east coast. I wanted to change the rudder to 'kick-up' style. Wrote to Garden twice asking for his input. Never got a response. Later I heard he was not as open as some NAs to entertaining changes to his finished designs. But maybe he just never got the letters.

Here (http://www.yachtflyers.com/otter/) (more photos) I used OTTER as the subject of an example advertisement to sell a classic boat (I am no longer in that business).


She will be a challenge to build - but on the other hand, if I'm going to invest so much time into a boat it's better be an outstanding design - I think she is. At least for kayaks, the strip building/epoxy techinque is rather forgiving - if you mess upp, just add more epoxy... I guess the same is true also for a bigger boat - just on a different scale..



I looked at the Eel plans - for strip plank it calls for 3/4" and shows bead and cove strips that are edge nailed then smoothed and sheathed in fiberglass cloth.

Thank you very much! Sorry for asking these questions, but is the width of the strips also specified? It would be great if I could harvest the lumber this weekend, soon the spring is here and then the moisture content will increase...


/F

[KAIROS]

For me, besides 'Eel' there is one fairer in the land, maybe. The 'Wenda' design by Albert Strange. I don't know about strip building Wenda. And I don't know if she is as seaworthy. And she is bigger. See forumite Conoeyawl's website.

More canoe yawls in the world is a good thing.

[willmarsh3]

Thank you very much! Sorry for asking these questions, but is the width of the strips also specified? It would be great if I could harvest the lumber this weekend, soon the spring is here and then the moisture content will increase...


/F

The thickness was specified as 3/4. From the plan drawings it appears that the strips are between 1 and 1/4" wide after cutting the bead and cove.

In my thinking I'm leaning more toward cold molding instead of strip planking. The reason is that near the stern there is a much tighter bend then on the Elver which would make it difficult IMHO to bend the strips around without them snapping.
Perhaps a lengthwise kerf could be put in the strips near the stern with a Japanese hand saw to make them bend more easily.

[trango]

The thickness was specified as 3/4. From the plan drawings it appears that the strips are between 1 and 1/4" wide after cutting the bead and cove.

In my thinking I'm leaning more toward cold molding instead of strip planking. The reason is that near the stern there is a much tighter bend then on the Elver which would make it difficult IMHO to bend the strips around without them snapping.
Perhaps a lengthwise kerf could be put in the strips near the stern with a Japanese hand saw to make them bend more easily.

Great - thank you for the dimensions! In my experience (from kayak building) it's easier to skip the bead and cove and use a plane to get a decent fit and then fill everything with epoxy/wood-flour mix. Maybe not the most elegant solution - but certainly efficient and strong. I think the bead and cove is an disadvantage when you want to make sharp bents because it is difficult to get a good fit. My plan is to try the same technique on the eel, should not be a problem since I'm anyway planning to paint the hull. For difficult bends it rather easy to steam the strips, fit them using clamps and then let them dry before epoxy gluing. I think I will harvest the lumber so that I can saw strips of different width - for areas with sharp bends I'll use narrow strips.

I hope this will work!

/Fredrik

[trango]

For me, besides 'Eel' there is one fairer in the land, maybe. The 'Wenda' design by Albert Strange. I don't know about strip building Wenda. And I don't know if she is as seaworthy. And she is bigger. See forumite Conoeyawl's website.

More canoe yawls in the world is a good thing.

Second that!

Without any first-hand experience, I think the basic design of this type of boats is extremely seaworthy - especially when considering their modest weight...

[Y Bar Ranch]

I have plans for the Eel with intent to strip build it, and had lofted the plans and was cutting molds when life put the boatbuilding on hold for a bit. Now that I'm ready to press on, I've been searching around just to confirm my orginal choice, as the plans for the Eel are a bit daunting, at least for me. The Canoe Yawls at Selway Fisher keep looking good, with the Jim Canoe Yawl in particular attracting my eye. Same approx size as the Eel. I'm going to order plans, compare, and go with my gut.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/DoubleEs.htm#JIM

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Jimd1.gif

[PeterSibley]

Is it possible to give an idea of the seaworthiness and performance of this boat compared to say a similar sized Ian Outred yawl ?

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Jimd1.gif

[KAIROS]

Is it possible to give an idea of the seaworthiness and performance of this boat compared to say a similar sized Ian Outred yawl ?


When it comes down to comparing how designs of this small size would do in rough conditions, the skill of the sailor becomes a so much bigger part of the equation. As the boat gets bigger, it's particular design figures in more and more. Bigger boats are more forgiving.

That's what I think. And have experienced.

[Y Bar Ranch]

Here's the numbers on the CY
Length 19 ft. 6 in.
Beam 6 ft. 2 in.
Draft25-1/2 in.
Approx. Weight 450 lbs.
Lug Sail Area 164 sq ft.
Capacity 1-6 adults, or a cub scout troop and leader - dog optional

And numbers on the Jim Canoe Yawl

LOA 18'4" 5.6m
Beam 5'6" 1.68m
Hull Mid Depth 1' 10" 0.56m
Draft 11"/3'5" 0.29/1.05m
Sail Area 156 sq.ft 14.57 sq.m
Approx. Dry Weight (excl. ballast) 507 lbs 230 kg
Ballast 321 lbs 150 kg

So, Jim Canoe Yawl is a smaller boat with less beam but about as heavy and with almost as much sail area. Its covered front end (as with the Eel), gives me more of a warm and fuzzy that does the openness of the CY. Curious to hear from experienced folks at to whether that is warranted or not.

[PeterSibley]

I guess I'd really want positive flotation bags in a ballasted open boat , but she sure looks good .As you say I like the 1/2 deck and small side deck ,they should add significantly to stability .

[KAIROS]

I guess I'd really want positive flotation bags in a ballasted open boat.....

Since water in the Northwest USA is dangerously cold, I towed an inflatable kayak when I was going somewhere very open to wind and seas (Queen Chalotte Sound, Icy Strait, Strait of Georgia). If you tow it on a very long line, you can pretend that the ugly thing doesn't belong to your boat.

Otherwise, there is always a risk of capsize. But there again it has most to do with the skill of the sailor on a small boat.

[willmarsh3]

Kairos is this your Eel?

http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/traditional_sail/eels/cruising_world_1993.pdf

[KAIROS]

Kairos is this your Eel?

http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/traditional_sail/eels/cruising_world_1993.pdf

Yes. Thanks. I don't have that article. The original owner, the guy I bought OTTER from wrote that article. His trip north was 24 days and 900 miles. My trip south was 42 days and 1400 miles. I had to go see a few things along the way :). I get all tingly and weepy thinking of that boat still. What a boat! Here she is on damp morning at the P.T. Festival in 1997.

End of gushing.

http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/otter_fest.jpg

[trango]

Kairos, I enjoy hearing your stories, it's obvious that you value Otter very high - good to hear that it is a well proven design. I've still not decided where to go and which design to build, but the Eel is on the top of my list right now. I've owned a couple of nice sailers, but right now I have two small kids - the questions is if they will have the patience for a small and relatively slow sailboat. On the other hand, I also have a motorboat for fishing, so I have that option for bringing the family. Maybe I should just build a boat for my own pleasure!

Anyway, I hope to be able to cut some wood during the weekend, it will probably be slowly grown spruce.

/F

[44xt]

I am currently building an Eel, and I highly recommend that you research hull construction a bit more before starting on your boat.

While some Eels have been built using the strip planking method, there may be strength issues when you get to a boat of Eel's size and rig stresses. I suggest you go to Paul Gartside's website and read his very informative information about strip planking versus cold-molding. It convinced me that I should build with the cold-molded method, I willl be using 3 layers of 1/4" red cedar veneer. It adds complication, but a boat as good as Eel deserves to have an equivalent long life.

Kairos, Thanks for posting those additional photo's of Otter, I am land-locked and I can use all the inspiration I can find to get this boat completed.

[klondike]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/klondike_photo/Scan.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/klondike_photo/Scan8.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/klondike_photo/Scan7.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q242/klondike_photo/Scan9.jpg

[KAIROS]

Marvelous, Klondike! I like the compass built into the centerboard trunk. And of course the bright hull.....you masochist.

On my cuddy-cabin version, there was plenty of room in the cockpit and it was nice to have that solid-fuel stove burning in the tiny cabin at night. The cabin is sort of like the size of a 2-person tent.

It is difficult to add a cabin without spoiling her looks, but it worked on OTTER. On some others, the builder tried to cheat the cabin up a little higher. I swear, even an inch makes a big difference in appearance.

In warmer, dryer climates or in more protected waters, I might go for the open version. OTTER was perfect for me here though.

Here's the cabin. Those are my knees there as I lay back on the v-berth. Beer can for scale (I couldn't buy any good beer in Canada :eek:).

http://www.yachtflyers.com/otter/images/graphic_08.jpg

http://www.yachtflyers.com/otter/images/graphic_09.jpg

[klondike]

The Varnish is actually not that big a problem to maintain.
I almost had to sell this boat this year to pay for some medical bills but, my
pickup sold quickly instead.
My 5 year old grandson has developed a fascination with everything pirate. When he saw my boat set up his eyeballs bulged and he can hardly wait to captain Papa's pirate ship this summer. Glad that I still have her.

[trango]

I am currently building an Eel, and I highly recommend that you research hull construction a bit more before starting on your boat.

While some Eels have been built using the strip planking method, there may be strength issues when you get to a boat of Eel's size and rig stresses. I suggest you go to Paul Gartside's website and read his very informative information about strip planking versus cold-molding. It convinced me that I should build with the cold-molded method, I willl be using 3 layers of 1/4" red cedar veneer. It adds complication, but a boat as good as Eel deserves to have an equivalent long life.

Kairos, Thanks for posting those additional photo's of Otter, I am land-locked and I can use all the inspiration I can find to get this boat completed.


Good to hear that boats are beeing built! Regarding building techique we all have our preferences. I'm sure your eel will be very strong! Likewise, I'm very confident also in strip built hulls. All methods have their pros and cons...

Would be very intresting to see pictures from her construction?

Klondike, thats an amazing boat! Stunning!

Living close to the artic circle, I'll probably go with the cuddy version, which makes more sence in my waters!

[Venchka]

Here's the numbers on the CY
Length 19 ft. 6 in.
Beam 6 ft. 2 in.
Draft25-1/2 in.
Approx. Weight 450 lbs.
Lug Sail Area 164 sq ft.
Capacity 1-6 adults, or a cub scout troop and leader - dog optional



The plywood needed to build a Caledonia yawl weighs almost 450 lbs. Elisabeth Grace, built of khaya plywood, mahogany, cedar & spruce with fore and aft decks as shown on the plans weighs 900 lbs in full sailing trim. I do wish folks would stop throwing those understated numbers about. I almost didn't buy enough trailer because of incorrect weight estimates.

We now return you to your regulary scheduled topic.

Paul Gartside has some very nice designs for strip planking or cold molding.

http://www.gartsideboats.com/cat.php

Good luck.