Self Proclaimed Ocean Liner Buffs Please Wander This Way

[riversailor92]

Ok, ok, ok, I beg everyone's forgiveness right off the bat because this is the "wooden" boat forum and in this particular thread I do not plan on discussing wooden boats, but rather large, fast metallic ones. I provide as my humble explanation and excuse that there are enough nautical enthusiasts on here, the fact that this is the only forum I belong to, and the fact that I have placed it in the "Misc. Boat Related" category, to justify this post's existance.

Now to Business: Although the title of this post is rather broad I have a more specific question for those interested to postulate on. Those who are not familiar with the story of the ocean liner "SS Normandie" get familiar or step aside at this point in the post.

Every time I read about her terrible demise or see it on the history channel my stomach seizes up like the engines on the Titanic if you were to try to start them up today. From the standpoint of maritime technology and naval architecture she was undoubtedly the most beautiful lady to come off of any ship yard's ways in the 20th century, and in my opinion probably EVER, including anything built since. having said all that, what really really really bothers me is looking at the dazzlingly successful post-war careers of ships like the Queen Mary, the Queen Elizabeth, the Liberté, or the Ile de France (all who existed before the war) and wondering what Normandie's post war career would have looked like. So that is what I'm here to get various different opinions on. What is your vision of SS Normandie's war service? Her post-war career? her ultimate demise and/or preservation (i.e. Queen Mary, Long Beach California)? Still sailing today like the MV Doulos who will be 96 this year? (by the way really quite an amazing vessel I must say). What do you think about the future of Normandie which was robbed from her by a US Navy welder? Or the mob. Or a Nazi spy. Or the communists. Or an agent of Cunard. I guess it depends on which story you believe.

Hope this generates a response of some kind.

Thank's y'all,
- Cam

[donald branscom]

I think:

a) it was the welder who was hurried and careless and more particularly his supervisor who did not clear the kapok lifejackets away from the hot work and the supervisor's manager who did a truly dreadful job of Ship Repair 101 - Connect Up the Fire Main To Shore Pressure. But remember - Germany did just the same with the "Bremen"

b) Yes, she was undoubtedly the most beautiful Transatlantic liner.

c) War service same as the "Queens".

d) Ditto post war service, ending with scrapping or preservation in preference to the "Queen Mary" in the mid sixties.

You might enjoy www.shipsnostalgia.com (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com). In fact I am sure you would.

Story does not work for me.
I have been a welder most of my life and I can tell you that the last thing a welder wants is a fire. Many fires get blamed on a "welder" Nameless of coarse and usually for insurance claims.

A welder is very conscious of the surroundings and flammables in the vicinity.
Story sounds like another insurance job.

[riversailor92]

In the field of conspiracy it is interesting that you mentioned Bremen. It was found after a meticulous investigation that a crew member who had a personal grudge against Norddeutscher Lloyd personally set fire to the vessel in 1941. Somehow I don't think Clement Derrick had a grudge against CGT but it is an interesting comparison.

You are undoubtedly right about the mismanagement of the refit into a troopship. As soon as France fell in 1940 the USA seized Normandie. By the time we entered the war officially we were all gung-ho about converting her into a troopship. Anyone who knows anything about wartime production in America in the 1940's knows it went into mega-super-hyper-overdrive so it seems logical that there were careless mistakes like leaving kapok lifejackets lying around welders. It might not have been totally Mr. Derrick's own fault but it was a combination of his own carelessness, that of his supervisor, and the over-all climate of hurriedly getting fired up to go to war.

I must admit I did not know that story about Mr. Yourkevitch but it sounds perfectly true and he would have been 100% right to open the seacocks and let her settle given the circumstances of the fire being on such a high deck. Why they thought he would want to sabotage his own entire life's work I will never really understand.

Normandie might not have held the Blue Ribbon until her final demise but while she did hold it she did so with 30% less horsepower than RMS Queen Mary making her an incredibly efficient vessel for her day. Re-engining ships is not unheard-of today and was not unheard-of then either. RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 had it done and for a ship of her size and stature that was no small feat. Given Normandie's pre-existing efficiency, the possibility of further improving her power post-war, and her "ahead of her time" beauty leads me to wonder if she wouldn't have been sailing in some capacity even up until the 80's or 90's. It would be a much bigger stretch to say that she could still be plying the seas even today but it is not totally out of the question.

Food for thought.

- Cam

[Dave Wright]

Here's a souvenir from the original QE. You can note the weather and the distance covered on particular days. It seems strange to recollect that dozens of passenger vessels plied regular North Atlantic routes fifty years ago. It's unlikely to happen again:

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww58/Siberian11/QE.jpg