Help with installing cleats.

[salk]

I need to install some cleats into my boat for the first time. I know in general how to do this and it seems fairly obvious but I don't want to make any mistakes. I will be installing cleats into teak wood. Thanks gents.

[Candyfloss]

Tell me more.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
Yes, it would be good to have some details -- what sort of boat, what sort of cleats, to be mounted where, etc, etc.

Generally you would bolt them through the surface rather than screwing them to it, often (depending on what we don't yet know) with a backing plate underneath. Whatever, use bedding compound.

Also, pay attention to the angle you mount them at. See this document (http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/cleats-mounting.pdf) for more info.

Mike

[Thorne]

Bed 'em. Bolt 'em. Sorted.

Want more info? Give more info.

[cap'nRod]

Through-bolted with backing underneath and use large 'fender' style washers against the backing plate on the underside to spread the load more. I also bed cleats in 3M 5200 because cleats are categorized as a 'permanent' hardware and you want the most permanent bedding/adhesive that you can find on them as they take a tremendous amount of load.

[Ian McColgin]

Ah the bedding debate. I'd use Dolphinite or another bedding, not a glue. The glue will not keep the cleat in place any better than a bolt alone.

I like a nice exactly sized bolt hole and mabe a schmear of a thin seam slick or bedding compound (or permatex or whatever you have in an old tube in the tool bag) around the smooth shank of the bolt so water won't run down along it.

If you're mounting somewhere you can't get a nut to - it happens - thread the hole in the wood, add some drops of thinned epoxy to the bolt threads as you screw it home - that just to harden the wood threads and seal the end grain - and drive it deep. This could happen if you absolutely have to have one or two bolts land in a deck beam, into the shear plank, or shelf or whatever.

Otherwise, backing plate and fender washer.

Cleats are used mostly in shere, but sometimes a verticle pull and there's other fittings. There are times when you want to have some filler blocks and then a backing plate that spans a couple of deck beams.

G'luck

G'luck

[Breakaway]

What everyone said...plus consider the likely run of lines from/to the cleat. For instance, if they will be used for docklines, be sure the line wont bear against a rail or your engine. You cant account for every scenario, but its worth considering.

[htom]

What they've said: bolts through exact holes and backing board, fender washers. Bedding compound. Careful placement. Strong. Your life may hang from them someday.

[stevedwyer]

Another minor detail is to angle the cleat away from the sheet led to it.
But as others have requested... more info on the type of cleat would help.

[donald branscom]

What are the cleats for?

Different types of cleats for different purposes.
What kind of boat? Some boats have cleat placement down after a long history to a very exact placement.

Remember you do not want to be tripping over a cleat all the time or getting a sheet lead snagged on it.

Need a lot more information about the boat, the use of the cleat, the size of the line to be used etc.,.

They do have to be through bolted so the location may depend on wether or not you have access to the underneath side of the area you want to place the cleat.
Also through bolted so the cleat does not end up embeded in someone's head.

Here is a photo of a poor choice of cleat because you may need to get the line of the winch fast.
It looks like a hazard to me.
http://i40.tinypic.com/qqyiau.jpg

[donald branscom]

Here is a photo of a cleat placed for a sheet lead coming off of a winch.
Correct placement. It could be on the side of the combing also, and be more out of the way when stepping over the combing when leaving or coming aboard, if the deck was a bit wider. In this photo it was not possible to locate the cleat on the outside of the combing.
http://i42.tinypic.com/125hstu.jpg

[SchoonerRat]

What are the cleats for?

Different types of cleats for different purposes.
What kind of boat? Some boats have cleat placement down after a long history to a very exact placement.

Remember you do not want to be tripping over a cleat all the time or getting a sheet lead snagged on it.

Need a lot more information about the boat, the use of the cleat, the size of the line to be used etc.,.

They do have to be through bolted so the location may depend on wether or not you have access to the underneath side of the area you want to place the cleat.
Also through bolted so the cleat does not end up embeded in someone's head.

Here is a photo of a poor choice of cleat because you may need to get the line of the winch fast.
It looks like a hazard to me.
http://i40.tinypic.com/qqyiau.jpg
The problem here is not so much the placement of the cleat, but the fact that it is bass-ackwards. The line needs to go through the fairlead first. In this configuration, it would be next to impossible to uncleat the sheet with any strain on it.

[floatingkiwi]

Salk is not giving much away is he?

[salk]

Salk is not giving much away is he?

Had to go to work during the day.

So I am planning on placing leading cleats for 3/4 in line to the gunwale on the starboard and port sides of a 46' 1926 sportfisher. The gunwale is roughly 1 inch thick teak. I have tried to upload photos but not able bec. the pic size is too large?? Anyways, here is a website that has photos of the boat www.idamay.org (http://www.idamay.org) Hope this helps otherwise if you PM me I can email you photos. Thanks.

[John B]

What are the cleats for?

Different types of cleats for different purposes.
What kind of boat? Some boats have cleat placement down after a long history to a very exact placement.

Remember you do not want to be tripping over a cleat all the time or getting a sheet lead snagged on it.

Need a lot more information about the boat, the use of the cleat, the size of the line to be used etc.,.

They do have to be through bolted so the location may depend on wether or not you have access to the underneath side of the area you want to place the cleat.
Also through bolted so the cleat does not end up embeded in someone's head.

Here is a photo of a poor choice of cleat because you may need to get the line of the winch fast.
It looks like a hazard to me.
http://i40.tinypic.com/qqyiau.jpg
That set up looks wrong at a glance but if you have another look you'll notice that its actually a seperate setup to the jib sheeting.. probably a mainsheet system.. a traveller perhaps, coming from the left ( aft) and the jib sheet coming from forward( right. The left line is drooped on the winch from the wrong side and drops over the coaming ( which confuses the picture).
I've used similar for my double ended mainsheet ( which I think this is)and it allowed me to use the spare windward winch to trim the main in a blow.

[Ian McColgin]

The pic initially shown at #10 is confusing to interpret as there are two different lines passing the cleat. The blue tracer line outside the cockpit from left to right through the jam cleat happens to be laid across the winch and likely laid coiled on the seat out of sight. The red tracer line around the cleat leads from the right (aft on the boat) and around the winch and then to a cleat inside the combing. That line is obviiously unloaded and slack.

To salk's questions - cleats on the gunnels of an old classic. Are these to be springs, maybe one on each side a bit ahead of amidships? Or two per side one noticably foreward and one more aft for bow and quarter springs?

On the gunnel can be tempting as it would appear to reduce the need for chocks, but you'll at least need some bronze oval section to prevent chafe. Also, without a chock you'll need to either make sure of the line's lead so you bring the line around the back (from a load perspective) of the cleat, or use an open Herraschoff pattern cleat so you can cast a bight through the center of the cleat.

Either way, in the gunnel may preclude through bolts, at least on the outer two bolts, as you'll be driving through the gunnel into the shere strake. Use the thread and epoxy dip method.

More details might change the advice, of course.

G'luck

[Lucky Luke]

Here is a photo of a poor choice of cleat because you may need to get the line of the winch fast.
It looks like a hazard to me.
http://i40.tinypic.com/qqyiau.jpg

At the risk of sounding unpleasant to some:

1- Soooo many comments (I exclude the rightfully asked questions) on something one does not know a thing about is quite surprising!!! Before Salk showed which boat it concerned and vaguely indicated where this cleat was going to be, without even saying what it would be intended to, there was not the slightest indication permitting any useful comment as to how, which type, which position etc.... this cleat should be installed (if even it has to be?: this old classic quite probably already has all what she needs...???!?!). To give the "all purpose" comment: "bed it, bolt it" was about all what could be said! The rest is just a show!

2- More surprising: Donald comment on his picture - and those which follow - show a lack of attention to details (even by John-B: sorry mate!). This picture shows a companionway and a bridge deck which will indicate that the bow is to the left. It won't be an aft cabin companionway in a center cockpit configuration because (as lifeline shows) the boat is wider "on the left" = forward). But this are non-significant details! What is important is that only the line with red tracers (which maybe the one just seen on the lower left corner, apparently coming out of the genoa car, and then to the winch through a deck block) is the one concerned by this winch, after which it is around the cleat just visible inside of the cockpit coaming ("combing"?: whatzit: a hairdresser thing?). The smaller line (blue tracers) is just put there around the winch (in a direction opposite to winch rotation!) in a non-significant manner. The boat is not sailing, and picture probably taken from the quay! This line (blue marker) pulls from left to right as the position of the cam cleat indicates, and NOT after the line goes around the winch. It possibly is the roller furling line. As John says, though, it would be possible to use the winch for this line (although exerting on the articulated cam-cleat base an effort for which it was not designed) but only AFTER it has gone through the cam-cleat, not the other way around.

Sorry for the rant, but I really don't understand what use are such posts when one does not even pay attention to what he pretends to comment, or comments on a problem about which he does not have the slightest clue!

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

At the risk of sounding unpleasant to some:
...
To give the "all purpose" comment: "bed it, bolt it" was about all what could be said! The rest is just a show!
...
Sorry for the rant, but I really don't understand what use are such posts when one does not even pay attention to what he pretends to comment, or comments on a problem about which he does not have the slightest clue!

In the following comments I'm specifically not referring to posts about the photo with the winch (whether it's on a bridge-deck or a bilge-keel.) I only use three-strand, so pictures of that artificial woven stuff just turn me off....

But in respect of what I've quoted above --

"The rest is just a show!" Not at all. It was because there was initially so little information about the question that people offered several "if this, then that" sorts of answers. Without additional background the responses might or might not have been helpful in answering the original question, but between them they covered off many possible situations.

Not to dispute the succinctness of Thorne's "bed it, bolt it" comment, but depending on the cleat location even that enviable piece of crypticity might not have been correct.

In any case there are now several views on various ways of fitting cleats in varying circumstances that are there for others to read and possibly make use of in the future anyway.

So what's the issue?

Mike

[stevedwyer]

What a fine boat! Imagine having Stan Laurel aboard!

Anyway, to post photos on this forum, you need a photo hosting service ( or your own website ) then you use the icon with the mountain image to link them to your post.

[John B]

At the risk of sounding unpleasant to some:

1- Soooo many comments (I exclude the rightfully asked questions) on something one does not know a thing about is quite surprising!!! Before Salk showed which boat it concerned and vaguely indicated where this cleat was going to be, without even saying what it would be intended to, there was not the slightest indication permitting any useful comment as to how, which type, which position etc.... this cleat should be installed (if even it has to be?: this old classic quite probably already has all what she needs...???!?!). To give the "all purpose" comment: "bed it, bolt it" was about all what could be said! The rest is just a show!

2- More surprising: Donald comment on his picture - and those which follow - show a lack of attention to details (even by John-B: sorry mate!). This picture shows a companionway and a bridge deck which will indicate that the bow is to the left. It won't be an aft cabin companionway in a center cockpit configuration because (as lifeline shows) the boat is wider "on the left" = forward). But this are non-significant details! What is important is that only the line with red tracers (which maybe the one just seen on the lower left corner, apparently coming out of the genoa car, and then to the winch through a deck block) is the one concerned by this winch, after which it is around the cleat just visible inside of the cockpit coaming ("combing"?: whatzit: a hairdresser thing?). The smaller line (blue tracers) is just put there around the winch (in a direction opposite to winch rotation!) in a non-significant manner. The boat is not sailing, and picture probably taken from the quay! This line (blue marker) pulls from left to right as the position of the cam cleat indicates, and NOT after the line goes around the winch. It possibly is the roller furling line. As John says, though, it would be possible to use the winch for this line (although exerting on the articulated cam-cleat base an effort for which it was not designed) but only AFTER it has gone through the cam-cleat, not the other way around.

Sorry for the rant, but I really don't understand what use are such posts when one does not even pay attention to what he pretends to comment, or comments on a problem about which he does not have the slightest clue!

What are you doing here Luke , when legions of your fans are patiently waiting for schooner updates.:D

Yes you're probably right about the furling line.. sheet through a turning block. My point was ( and Ians I think) that contrary to first glance ( and I can see why Donald would think it) that set up isn't "wrong".

As to the cleat fixing.. that was already answered by 4 or 5 people to different levels. The only discussion point left being the type of bedding compound.
I'd rather eat worms than let 5200 ( edit.. as bedding )anywhere near a wooden boat myself , but some people like it.

[Vinny&Shawn]

Salk, from the description, it sounds like you are installing bow chocks for leading mooring line. can you post pictures of the actual hardware. Use photobucket as your uploading mechanism.

[SMARTINSEN]

http://www.idamay.org/_DSC0031_1__op_800x623.jpg

That is quite a boat!

[Ian McColgin]

I'm not sure Luke read my pose but the pic is certainly open to different interpretations. Like Luke, I think the bow is off camera left but John B could as easily be correct.

The variety of remarks shows how easily a close-up without context can be confusing.

The installation question was asked ambiguously enough that the variety of responses should help in the eventual placement. It would still be nice to see the boat and the thoughts of placement as there are so many ways to get this wrong - espcecially with that lovely little toerail.

G'luck

[SMARTINSEN]

Use photobucket as your uploading mechanism.

Salk already has his images on the web. All he has to do is link to them.

Click on User CP in the upper left corner of the WBF screen. About 1/2 way down under Settings and Options is Edit Options. From there scroll all of the way down to the bottom to Miscellaneous Options. On the drop down menu, choose Enhanced Interface-Full WYSISYG Editing.

Now when you want to post a photo, you can copy your image source, (starting with HTTP:// and ending in .jpg or the like) and then paste it into the reply box using the insert image icon thus: And lo! your image should appear!

It is really easy, and it takes more time to post the instructions than it does to post a photo.

Thus:
http://www.idamay.org/_DSC0010_copy_1__op_800x535.jpg

[donald branscom]

At the risk of sounding unpleasant to some:

1- Soooo many comments (I exclude the rightfully asked questions) on something one does not know a thing about is quite surprising!!! Before Salk showed which boat it concerned and vaguely indicated where this cleat was going to be, without even saying what it would be intended to, there was not the slightest indication permitting any useful comment as to how, which type, which position etc.... this cleat should be installed (if even it has to be?: this old classic quite probably already has all what she needs...???!?!). To give the "all purpose" comment: "bed it, bolt it" was about all what could be said! The rest is just a show!

2- More surprising: Donald comment on his picture - and those which follow - show a lack of attention to details (even by John-B: sorry mate!). This picture shows a companionway and a bridge deck which will indicate that the bow is to the left. It won't be an aft cabin companionway in a center cockpit configuration because (as lifeline shows) the boat is wider "on the left" = forward). But this are non-significant details! What is important is that only the line with red tracers (which maybe the one just seen on the lower left corner, apparently coming out of the genoa car, and then to the winch through a deck block) is the one concerned by this winch, after which it is around the cleat just visible inside of the cockpit coaming ("combing"?: whatzit: a hairdresser thing?). The smaller line (blue tracers) is just put there around the winch (in a direction opposite to winch rotation!) in a non-significant manner. The boat is not sailing, and picture probably taken from the quay! This line (blue marker) pulls from left to right as the position of the cam cleat indicates, and NOT after the line goes around the winch. It possibly is the roller furling line. As John says, though, it would be possible to use the winch for this line (although exerting on the articulated cam-cleat base an effort for which it was not designed) but only AFTER it has gone through the cam-cleat, not the other way around.

Sorry for the rant, but I really don't understand what use are such posts when one does not even pay attention to what he pretends to comment, or comments on a problem about which he does not have the slightest clue!

Rant all you want. No we do not have a clue - so that is why FLOATING KIWI said "He's not giving much up is he."
The purpose of showing the photos of a couple situations was to just let the forum member know that it is a complex question, and without seeing what it is that we are talking about that it is hard to give a meaningful answer.

[donald branscom]

We are going the LOOOONNNG way around the barn on this one.

He could have just shown a photo, and asked where would a good place be for the cleat. But then as an Aussie would say, "Where is the sport?"

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
Wassat mate?