C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

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  • Nicholas Carey
    Flâneur • Seattle
    • Feb 2001
    • 20330

    C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)



    Could you build this 19th c. French sawhorse?



    From the above blog where the author has a series on figuring out how to build this thing:
    There's more to this sawhorse than meets the eye at first. Take a look at the legs. You will see that one pair, diagonally opposed, are rotated so the corner of the leg meets the corner of the floor plan of the horse, and the other two legs are rotated 45˚ along their axes, similar to the way a hip rafter is commonly oriented (i.e., the side of the rafter is aligned plumb to the floor). Even the pair that are rotated so their corners meet the floor are subtly different from one another - one being aligned to the long axis of the plan, and the other aligned to the short axis. To this melange of leg orientations, we interconnect x-braces, and then even inter-connect x-braces between cross braces. It's quite insane! I get dizzy just looking at it. The layout problem condenses into determining relationships of positions between parts, as there isn't wiggle room between pieces, with so many crowded into the same space. To complicate it further, the pieces are all through-tenoned to each other, which means the shapes of the tenons vary and the mortises are shaped to suit. Even the cut out of the mortises will be difficult, given their shapes.
    Here's a detail of his drawing where works out the "development of the brace...which meets a leg turned 45˚ to the plan. Once that scratching is completed, the view is a tad more congested:



    just a few projection lines
    “The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction,” Goebbels said as the Nazis rose to power—one of those quotes that sound apocryphal but are not.​
    — Adam Gopnik
  • JMAC
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2000
    • 1523

    #2
    Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

    Could you build this 19th c. French sawhorse?

    No problem, how many you want? It'll be T+M, so you know....

    Comment

    • johnw
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2001
      • 28589

      #3
      Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

      Gee, I wonder why that didn't catch on.

      I heard of one contractor who, when hiring carpenters, would ask them to build a sawhorse. If it took more than 20 minutes, they didn't get hired.
      On the trailing edge of technology.

      https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-John-L.../dp/B07LC6Y934

      http://www.scribd.com/johnmwatkins/documents

      http://booksellersvsbestsellers.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • oznabrag
        Historical Illiterate
        • Nov 2008
        • 40761

        #4
        Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

        Originally posted by johnw
        Gee, I wonder why that didn't catch on.

        I heard of one contractor who, when hiring carpenters, would ask them to build a sawhorse. If it took more than 20 minutes, they didn't get hired.
        No, it didn't catch on, but it looks like it was intended as an answer to that question!
        Rattling the teacups.

        Comment

        • contented
          Member
          • May 2008
          • 96

          #5
          Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

          might could, but why build something you're always going to trip on as the legs extend beyond the base of the work at hand and as you concentrate you trip as you move around the work. keep the legs straight and teach the rookies to clean up under them while the work is going on

          Comment

          • ishmael
            Banned
            • Jun 2000
            • 23518

            #6
            Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

            That's a fun one. Thanks Nick.

            Pretty obvious the point of this horse isn't having a saw horse. Look at all them weird angled pieces. And remember, no power tools. You better get out your file and sharpen up a few saws! While you're at it, sharpen a few pencils.

            There are some pieces in there that would not be so easy. Looking at the angled brace to the left leg. A sharp bird's mouth at the end. A compound angle with a shoulder.

            Could I make it? Yeah, fifteen years ago on a good day. Even though it looks terribly complex, it's still just a bunch of sticks made and stuck together.


            Is this real? A real apprentice project from the French three hundred years ago? No wonder they haven't been a world power lately.

            Comment

            • stevedwyer
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2007
              • 404

              #7
              Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

              Can't wait to see it! Then do the honors of the first saw kerf to score the top.

              Comment

              • Nicholas Carey
                Flâneur • Seattle
                • Feb 2001
                • 20330

                #8
                Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                Originally posted by ishmael
                That's a fun one. Thanks Nick.

                Pretty obvious the point of this horse isn't having a saw horse. Look at all them weird angled pieces. And remember, no power tools. You better get out your file and sharpen up a few saws! While you're at it, sharpen a few pencils.

                There are some pieces in there that would not be so easy. Looking at the angled brace to the left leg. A sharp bird's mouth at the end. A compound angle with a shoulder.

                Could I make it? Yeah, fifteen years ago on a good day. Even though it looks terribly complex, it's still just a bunch of sticks made and stuck together.


                Is this real? A real apprentice project from the French three hundred years ago? No wonder they haven't been a world power lately.
                The guy whose blog entry I posted earlier spent several hundred hours figuring out how it goes together.

                But they still teach these kinds of skills in France. Les Compagnons du Devoir is a french trades guild system that dates back to the 12th century. 2 years of schooling with the Compagnons gets you the government-issued Certificat d'Aptitude Professionelle in your trade. Once you have that, you get to be an itinerant journeyman working under the supervision of a compagnon. Work on site all day, after which classes until 8pm or so. Group dinner (coats and ties required) at the Compagnons' local siège (lodge). After dinner, work on your maquette (model) to demonstrate your mastery of the skills for current position. Lather, rinse, repeat for 3-5 years, after which you may submit a maquette as a masterpiece (original meaning) to support your candidacy to become a Compagnon du Devoir in your own right.

                I discovered them when I was in Troyes in the heart of Champagne and quite literally stumbled on the Compagnons' tool museum, Le Maison de l'Outil et de la Pensée Ouvrière (The House of the Tool and Thoughtful Workers). Amazing place. Thousands and thousands of amazingly specialized tools. Here's a video tour of the place:

                “The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction,” Goebbels said as the Nazis rose to power—one of those quotes that sound apocryphal but are not.​
                — Adam Gopnik

                Comment

                • SMARTINSEN
                  Transplanted Yankee
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 10162

                  #9
                  Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                  Originally posted by johnw
                  Gee, I wonder why that didn't catch on.

                  I heard of one contractor who, when hiring carpenters, would ask them to build a sawhorse. If it took more than 20 minutes, they didn't get hired.
                  This guy started in January of 2009, and here we are in March of 2010, and working steadily, he has not even close to being finished. He even had to go out and buy a new computer to finish his lofting. For a sawhorse!

                  Originally posted by Ishmael
                  Could I make it? Yeah, fifteen years ago on a good day. Even though it looks terribly complex, it's still just a bunch of sticks made and stuck together.
                  .....ummmm...I do not think so!
                  Steve Martinsen

                  Comment

                  • oznabrag
                    Historical Illiterate
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 40761

                    #10
                    Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                    Originally posted by ishmael
                    That's a fun one. Thanks Nick.

                    Pretty obvious the point of this horse isn't having a saw horse. Look at all them weird angled pieces. And remember, no power tools. You better get out your file and sharpen up a few saws! While you're at it, sharpen a few pencils.

                    There are some pieces in there that would not be so easy. Looking at the angled brace to the left leg. A sharp bird's mouth at the end. A compound angle with a shoulder.

                    Could I make it? Yeah, fifteen years ago on a good day. Even though it looks terribly complex, it's still just a bunch of sticks made and stuck together.


                    Is this real? A real apprentice project from the French three hundred years ago? No wonder they haven't been a world power lately.


                    Whatta maroon.
                    Rattling the teacups.

                    Comment

                    • Glen Longino
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 28863

                      #11
                      Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                      Originally posted by oznabrag
                      Whatta maroon.
                      Nope, a Jungian!
                      That's a Jungian sawhorse poeticized by Walt Whtman if I ever saw one.

                      Comment

                      • oznabrag
                        Historical Illiterate
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 40761

                        #12
                        Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                        Well Glen,....I never thought of that!

                        Just outta curiosity, what would you have said to me if I'd told you I could build that on a good day. That all it was was a bunch of weird sticks stuck together?

                        Remember, you've already used Jung and Whitman!
                        Rattling the teacups.

                        Comment

                        • Glen Longino
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 28863

                          #13
                          Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                          I'd call you a lying sack of green shyte!
                          Then I'd offer you a cold beer and say, "Roll another one, just like the other one!"
                          Call me a humanitarian!

                          Comment

                          • Paul Girouard
                            Banned
                            • May 2005
                            • 16591

                            #14
                            Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                            Originally posted by oznabrag

                            That all it was was a bunch of weird sticks stuck together?

                            Remember, you've already used Jung and Whitman!
                            I might-a said you where full of excrement, but Glen, he might of said somethin rude! He's like that yanno.

                            Comment

                            • Paul Girouard
                              Banned
                              • May 2005
                              • 16591

                              #15
                              Re: C'est compliqué! (could you build this?)

                              Opps , see he said something more rude , he called you a doper

                              Comment

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