Searching for photos of "Rozinante", 30' Malabar jr together with articles

[Mr. Maar]

Does anyone have photos and articles of Rozinante and Malabar Jr from old issues of WB magazine. I heard that Rozinante was descripted in ¤26 issue of WB magazine, but I don't have it.

[RodB]

Lots of photos on the Rozinante website, www.rozinante.org (http://www.rozinante.org) but you have to pay $25 to access them. They need the money to keep up the website...

There is also a complete series of construction photos there. Quite a beautiful design, I have always wondered what the cost would be to build one strip-planked with no engine. Also, do a search on Google and Yahoo for "Rozinante" and "Herreshoff Rozinante" and you will get several sites with photos of different "Rozinantes" several of which are fiberglass.

I have some photos gotten off the internet on Malabar Jr's, mostly yacht broker photos, I can email them to you if you like.

RB

[ 05-10-2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Mr. Maar]

I have seen her now, but I dont't like her. She looks like a toy to me. I need something more serious but classic and beautyfull. Zinnia and Psyche by Burnett are fine but I still haven't found building plan for what I am looking for. Can anyone direct me?

[RodB]

Look at Peterson's schooner "Susan", also available with a gaff/tops'l cutter rig. Do a search on this design forum and you will find plenty.

If you can live with 5 feet of draft, look at Winslow's Friendship sloop, 31 foot, gaff sloop, beautiful, spoon bow, plans at Mystic Seaport. There were articles about building her in the Rudder. She is written up in "Designs to Inspire" by the Brays.

RB

[ 05-11-2005, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Mr. Maar]

Thanks Rod. The "Susan" seems to be too much mystified. Actually I like sloops I think. The sailing boats from the wb plans are fine, but I don't wont to buy these catalogs (thirty, fifthy wooden boats) to get all neccessary informations that other designers regulary provide on their web sites. I tried to contact them, but they said they can't send me info such as type of keel, headroom hight and other description. The photos are the most important I think.

[RodB]

I think the books "Thirty, Fourty, and Fifty Wooden boats" are a good investment and give you lots of information on many boats. Even if you spend a few hundred dollars on books and study plans figuring out a design to build, the cost is minimal considering the money you will spend building a boat. When you consider all the time, money and labor invested in building a boat, I don't think you can spend too much time or money researching a "boat to build".

For example, I cannot imagine not having several of the following for my educational and selection process:

"Good Boats" by Roger Taylor
(all the other 4 books in this series)
The book on the designs by John Alden
Woodenboats catalog books as above.
Yacht Designs" by William Garden
Any and all books about and by John and William Atkin
The index on the designs by Mystic Seaport (Ann and Maynard Bray)
Sensible Cruising Designs by Herreshoff
Any and all books by the Herreshoffs
Yacht Designs by PHilip Rhodes
Any old issues of Woodenboat or any other boating magazines that have an article on a boat you are interested in.
And many more books I'm not listing here...
et al

If you think photos are a much better source of information for you to discern whether you would like a design and want to build her... you will not be able to to avoid buying some books. You can buy most books for at least half of new cost by searching the internet...like Abebooks.com and Amazon.com... Both of these sites will show used books from different sites around the country. All you need is the title and knowing the author helps sometimes.

If you search on Yahoo or google you can find some good photos of many boats, especially on yacht broker's websites like yachtworld.com and of course the many boatyards around the country still actively building many of the older traditional classic designs of yesteryear.

Overall I think you will have to do alot more footwork than you think to even become aware of a small percentage of designs that are out there and the more you look at the more you will find you like. The choice becomes harder. Initially you will have to at least come up with some parameters such as displacement, LOA, draft, sail rig, basic intended use, etc..these factors help narrow down the selection process but you have to do this first or you are just chasing an unknown "moving" target".

Also, it is common for folks to begin thinking they need a larger boat than they really need and once costs, labor time, etc are assessed, they start sizing down their "dream boat" to more realistic terms... focusing on a size or boat they can, in reality build and get on the water in a reasonable amount of time and of course a reasonable cost for their own circumstances.

Get some parameters listed...ie a precise list of important criteria and then members here can make suggestions for you to check out...for example www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002670&p= (http://http://)

RB

[ 05-12-2005, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[PVanderwaart]

It's easier to suggest something if you give an idea of how you want to use the boat. Do you want an older design, or will you consider a new design that looks traditional. Modern sail handling gear, or only blocks and belaying pins?

http://www.tantonyachts.com/
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/stockplans.htm

[Mr. Maar]

Thank you for details, guys. That's just what I needed. One question. I heard that low cost plans can mean insuficiency of details and problems when the boat is done. Who has good, and who has not so good plans? WB plans are good, right?

[RodB]

The available plans vary in detail and many of the folks on this forum may own plans of a design you are interested in. You really need to decide on use, style, size, displacement,traditional or modern composite construction... etc to speak of specific designs. I think some plans from WB have lots of detail, others do not. Narrow things down to few designs and then ask about details available in the plans.
RB

[ 05-13-2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Mr. Maar]

I need something like this: max 6000 lb ballast, about 30' length, round bottom, carvel planked or cold molded, wine glass shape, canoe stern or round stern perhapse, spacie, standing hight, lead ballast (no iron or cement), no inner ballast, only outside ballast, keel for and aft, sloop or gaff sloop or cutter, completly wooden classic (vintage) style, wooden mast, sturdy, tough, higher freeboard. That kind can be find in the WB but I need more informations with photos on them, so I am still searching on the net. For exemple, "Ivy" by Burnettyachtdesign is very atractive but she is also very expensive. Her detailed building plan costs ł2000 (GBP), and I need something for about $200 (USD).

[Mr. Maar]

...keel ballast, not centerboard, ocean going sailing boats, not pilothause,... and beautifull.

[rbgarr]

William Garden designs, perhaps, like Bullfrog or Buccaneer as shown in his first book? I have no idea of the cost of his plans but they would be very detailed.

[RodB]

Limiting the cost of plans to $200 US makes this search harder especially if you want lots of details.

Mark Smaalders offers designs that would work but the cost is closer to $400 to $500... His designs are very traditional in style but they are for building modern epoxy composite construction (strip-planked and cold-molded). Lots of details, etc.

http://smaalders.net/yacht_design/homemod.htm

The Schooner "Susan" has tons of details in many sheets of plans... and the molds already exist for all the hardware and the ballast keel, which saves you lots of money. I think her ballast keel is around 2800 lbs, her displacement about 13K lbs. This is a large 28'6" LOD hull and you can rig her as a schooner (original) or as a gaff cutter.

You can get several plans for great designs from the Atkin website...and prices are reasonable, around what you are saying your budget is.

All these plans are pretty much for traditional carvel construction and you have many choices here from "Eric" to "Vixen" if you like double-enders... Look at design number 311, a 30 foot vesion of "Eric" which is 32' LOD...(you should look at a copy of " Colin Archer and the Seaworthy Double-Ender). Here is the Atkin URL.
Atkin boat plans (http://www.boat-links.com/atkinco/)

Designs close to 30 feet plus or minus: Look at "Elf" or "Eric" or "Tally Ho" "Benbow" "Fore and Aft" etc...lots of different displacements, sailplans... etc.

Good luck.

RB

[ 05-13-2005, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Mr. Maar]

Atkin's boats seems fine, altough some of them have inside ballas of iron or cement and trimming ballast too. I will study them more and than I'll see. A what about "Susan"? Does anyone have her study plan, articles or something like that? Everybody speek about her all the time. By the way, how much is her building plan and where it is available?

[RodB]

There is a good chapter on "Susan" in the book by Roger Taylor "Still More Good Boats". Go to the following thread to see some good photos on her:
Thread on Susan (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004149)
www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p hp?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004149 (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004149)

Go to "Search engine" on this Design forum and just type in the word Susan, and you will get plenty of postings on her or about her including her designers son Bill Peterson's phone number.

Any of the Atkin designs could have the external ballast increased to minimize the internal ballast, but most design require a little interior ballast to get the boat to float level to her lines.

Go to the following thread:
http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultim atebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002670 (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002670)

lots of suggestions on 30 foot boats.

RB

[ 05-13-2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Meerkat]

Specs would fit a "Hess-30", best known by the prototype: "Taliesen", the Pardey's 2nd boat. Plans are/were still available from his daughter.

IIRC:

30' LOD
~38' LOA (one heck of a bowsprit, plus pushpit)
11' beam
17,000# displacement.
cutter rig.
carvel planked.

[Venchka]

Ok, here you go...

30 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #109

Construction: Carvel on bent frames or strip planked/cold molded

This is a new version of an earlier design based on the Falmouth working boat model. It is a powerful go-anywhere boat with full headroom and a three berth layout with optional double. It is also a very simple boat to build with easy lines and straightforward construction detail. An eminently buildable and affordable cruising sailboat.

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/109Best2.jpg

Specifications for 30 ft gaff cutter, Design #109

Length on deck 30 ft 0 in Beam 9 ft 11 in

Length waterline 28 ft 8 in Draft 5 ft 9 in

Displacement 18,000 lbs Ballast 6800 lbs

Sailing rig Gaff cutter Sail area 596 sq. ft

Fresh water 220 litres Fuel capacity 130 litres

Building time 5000 hours Skill level High

Price $550 Canadian funds Design #109 6 Sheets

Paul Gartside answers even dumb questions from me via email. The plans may seem expensive, but remember, Paul will answer your questions during construction. That service is priceless.

Gartside 30' Cutter (http://www.gartsideboats.com/catsail4.php)

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Mr. Maar:
Atkin's boats seems fine, altough some of them have inside ballas of iron or cement and trimming ballast too. I will study them more and than I'll see.
There is a happy proportion between the iron on the keel and the ballast carried inside; the iron weighs 3,500 pounds and the lead inside, exactly the same. I think it is pretty well known that comfortable sea boats carry a good proportion of their ballast inside.

William Atkin writing about Fore An' Aft
Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 05-14-2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Jay Greer]

I have many pictures and plans for the Baby Malabars,
"Wanderlure II" and her sister ship "name escapes me".
That are still here on the West Coast. I raced and skippered Wandulure for over fifteen years. These boats are both 36' in length. Wanderlure was built at City Island NY in 1927. She was shipped to California shortly after and was at sea during the hurricane of 1939 here. Fastest little schooner I have ever sailed!

[PVanderwaart]

30 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #109
Building time 5000 hours Skill level High
2 1/2 man-years for a skilled boatbuilder.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by PVanderwaart:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
30 Ft Gaff Cutter, Design #109
Building time 5000 hours Skill level High
2 1/2 man-years for a skilled boatbuilder.</font>[/QUOTE]Correct. Paul spent 5 years working part time just like the rest of us to build his 22' Surprise. Seven months by a professional to build my Caledonia yawl. There ain't no free lunch.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D