BB Crowningsheild where to get a catalogue of his plans??

[Wild Dingo]

Im sorta curious about this designer... I have seen a few of his lines now and am somewhat smitten... but where can one find a catalogue of his designs? I know woodenboat sells the plans to a couple of his designs... but does anyone know if theres a catalogue available?

Is he somewhat under rated as a designer? or is there just a lack of knowledge about him and his work? We all drool over the works of Herroshoff and Stephens Al Mason and others... {very worthy of our drool they be too! :cool: } Perhaps in the light of his times he was and is overlooked along side of the "greats" {Im not sayin he is but that from the lack of info available on him and his designs that I can find perhaps that may be the case?}

What is known of Mr Crowninghsheild? Is there a contact? a web site? a museum somewhere where his work is available?

Take it easy
Shane

[Art Read]

Shane... Actually, he's still pretty highly regarded, but sort of like William Hand, a bit "overlooked" by the universal, (deserved, I might add...) admiration, familiarity and subsequent "press" that the "giants" you mentioned so often receive.

I can think of several, good sized schooners from his board sailing today, just in our local, Seattle area waters. Being he was based in Boston, that says something in itself... The Peabody Musuem in Salem, Massachusetts has his design portfolio in their collections. I suspect a "Google" search would provide you an e-mail address that might put you in touch with somebody who can help with the particulars. Let me know what they say!

(BTW... In case you hadn't noticed, I'm kinda "partial" to his designs, too! ;) )

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid16/p28466672e5d32f5984b8fcf1f63adec5/fdef5213.jpg

[ 12-18-2002, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[Wild Dingo]

You were right... as you normally are mate! :cool:

Shot of an email to the Peabody Essex Museum (http://www.pem.org/directions.html) pem@pem.org so hopefully they will contact me and let me know what the deal is and I can pass it along to you. :cool:

Soooo okay you know my curiosity and the drill Art!!... cant just whack a pic like that up with no explainations!!... What who length etc etc etc... :rolleyes:

Take it easy
Shane

[Bpolk]

I was able to purchase copies of Crowninshields "Pup" class some years back fromn the Peabody Museum. This was the boat I learned to sail when I was a mere pup. She looked very much like a Dark Harbor 17. It was my Dad's first real boat and she was originally built in 1917.
He had to rebuild her transom and cabin. Here's a guy who couldn't hang a door but he did a masterful job on the repairs. Hope you hear back from the Museum. They have been a bit slow responding of late cause they've had a major expansion going on.

Old Bob on the beach in Oregon

[Wild Dingo]

Thanks Bob... Maybe like the NSW maritime museum and make me wait awhile but no worries Im a fairly patient fella :D

Would love to see a catalogue of his designs... wonder if thats possible? will see I guess probably ask which design I want copies of and I will go.... "mmmm yer well..." so many designs over so many years and Ive only seen a few!!

Take it easy
Shane

[James R]

Shane, I know what you mean. I've always admired the work of Knud Reimers but lately I've been lusting after Crowninshield's Camden Class Sloop. She would make a pretty daysailer (you know you're smitten when you can't come up with the right adjective to describe a boat, so "pretty" it is).

Do let us know what the PEM says.

[Wild Dingo]

No worries James... I must admit the only Crowningsheild designs Ive seen are a couple TonyH sent me taken from old Rudder mags he has... 1 was a 126ft cruising schooner!!! what a beautiful set of lines that has!... amazing!... I know he has many other designs as theres a couple of others in the sheets Tonys sent a 46ft 6in Seriola designd packet had scant information...

Which is what got me thinking... Ive seen the Haven 17 1/2 in the woodenboat store mag and its also beautiful... that counter does me in Im afraid just love that long overhang aft...

Anyway will keep in touch with it. If anyone feels in the mood to send some pics over this way to give an idea of the scope of his designs Id be forever indebted! :D

Take it easy
Shane

[Art Read]

Shane... Guess I was too "obscure". The sailplan above is from the project I'm working on. His "Dark Harbor 12 1/2". 20' on deck, 5 1/2' beam, 3' 2" draft. Available as the smallest of three Crowninshield designs sold by "WoodenBoat".

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid21/p444b29da663997a75bdb976562fddc61/fdb1219c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4292219521&show_all=1&start=1

[TR]

From Maynard Bray's short Bio in Designs to Inspire;

B.B. Crowninshield (1867-1948)

Crowninshield's designs were wide-ranging and many in number, and the drawings were consistantly well drafted. A number of younger designers, including John G. Alden and William H. Hand, got their start working in the Crowninshield office. B.B. (for Bowdoin B.) established a big shipyard in Somerset, MA , about 1917 where he built wooden-hulled cargo schooners for World War I. He is best remembered for the seven-masted schooner Thomas W. Lawson, the America's Cup candidate Independence, and the little and still loved Dark Harbor 17 1/2-footers.

Crowninshield's book Fore and Afters, published by Houghton Mifflin in 1940, is recommended reading, as are his annual catalogs, which feature several of his designs among the tide tables, brokerage listings, and other ephemera. This important designer deserves a more comprehensive treatment, but to date there has been no biography.

Designs to Inspire includes a couple of schooner yachts, Adventuress (101' schooner), a 126' fishing schooner, and a 1909 runabout, all by B.B.

All the best, Tad.

[Art Read]

Thanks, Tad... I'd not seen that before. Obviously I've been neglecting some "required reading"! ;)

[Wild Dingo]

Strewth mate!!!... Soooo thats what youve been abuilding all this time?!!... mmmm well mate whack me upside the noggin for not listening to you all that time youve been posting updates of your work!...

You do good work Art... finest kind! :cool:

So those imagestation pics are upto date? shes gonna be a bobby dazzler no doubts about that!! a stunner!

So with the work your doing and the design your building and the designer who done did the drawings your going to have a legend on the water pretty soon eh?

Thanks for the update!!

It looks like my library is somewhat depleted dont it?... I may have to get it to grow again eh Tad?... sigh "ooohhhh possumpoop lookee what Tad reckons I gots ta get!!"... "no she'll be right luv no worries just a couple of books by that fella Crowningsheild that designed that 120 of footer that Tony sent us"... "no darls dont be daft woman I aint thinking nothing like that!!"... "sheeeesh could you imagine the response if I mutters Im building a 120ft schooner on the board woman?!!!... CRIPES!!"

But he did design mighty fine boats didnt he?! :cool:

Take it easy
Shane

[NevadaBoy]

Last summer, I visited the Museum of Yachting in Newport, mostly because they have a Crownishield Dark Harbor 17 in their collection. The mast was in the shop and the boat needed some cosmetic work, but it was still gorgeous. I snapped a bunch of photos, several of which I have scanned. I would be happy to post them if I could figure out how.

Bill Deming

[ 12-21-2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: NevadaBoy ]

[Wild Dingo]

Bill check your email!! :cool:

I describe the easy way and the easier way take a choice!! ;) but mate lets see em!! :D

Still no word back... sigh... early days yet I guess :rolleyes:

Take it easy
Shane

[ 12-21-2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Thad]

I have looked through part of the BB C plan file at the Peabody a couple of times in the last 20 years. I know one of the men who volunteer and do the cataloging in the maritime dept. I was asking him about the FAME design not long ago based on your earlier post, WD. It is a treat for the eyes flipping through those drawers (carefully!!), but right now the museum is in the throws of a building project and the archives ar hard to access. If we're lucky the museum will not shelve the maritime dept and ship the lot to Mystic -- spread the wealth, keep the local talent local, not the boats -- they look good anywhere! Anyway, for FAME or any other I can talk to Tom and see if there is any getting at the plans. They never had any more catalog than a card file with little description, so picking a plan from the file was nigh impossible. I don't know where they are at in their cataloging just now.

[Wild Dingo]

Thad mate that would be flamin brilliant mate!!

Absoflaminlutely!!! :cool:

I was wondering about Fame too last night as I went back through all the peices that Tony has sent me... beautiful design that one... absolute stunner... and the small bit Ive read on her not undoable to a fella whos determined...

Any help would be great mate and appreciated... maybe you can get an idea what theyre going to do with them or where theyre going to put them after the redo is done?

Take it easy
Shane

[NevadaBoy]

Well Shane, you asked for it...
I'm not a professional photographer, I just took the pictures to clear up some questions I had about the design.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p7d2678755d2aecb51ace53c4fbf063eb/fce7c5f6.jpg
This is a good overall 3/4 rear view. In the background is a lovely 30 Square Meter by LFH. "Bandwagon" was built in 1930. I believe it's cedar on oak, copper riveted. The boat is in very good condition overall and is for the most part in "as built" condition. Some of the brightwork could use some attention, though. The mast (a gaffer) was in the shop when I was there. This view gives a good idea of the layout of the various bits of deck hardware. The rearmost pair of cleats are not original. According to the man at the museum, she sails beautifully. He also said the lack of a motor is no real disadvantage. She is easy to maneuver under sail, even in confined spaces. He said she is very easy to paddle if the wind dies entirely. He told me about one afternoon when he was caught in a dead calm about two miles from the harbor. He paddled all the way in.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p281c6ae60e85f775b17a5c8c989dd0d3/fce7c553.jpg
Taken from the rear deck. Good view of the cockpit sides, companionway hatch, weatherboards, and cabin top. One detail puzzled me before I saw the real thing. On the plans, the cockpit scupper appears to empty nowhere in particular. In fact, it goes to a thru-hull on the port side through the strake next to the garboard. The scupper would take forever to drain the cockpit if the boat were pooped. It's really just for rain. This is not really a boat that is meant for sailing in conditions where she might take a wave over the stern anyway.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/pd707ed8d65f99dd28ee2b3e3a22db533/fce7c54a.jpg
The cam cleat directly abaft the tiller is obviously not original. The fitting just forward of the tiller is also a later addition. It's an inspection hatch put in so they can check for rot as there is too little room under the cockpit to allow inspection from the inside. If you look closely, you can see a small wooden toggle on the rear of the cockpit. This holds the aft section of the cockpit in place. The boards lift out as a unit to allow access to the lazarette. One other detail is the small diamond-shaped bronze plate that reinforces the rear joint in the coaming. Just out of view to the rear is a Herreshoff "Fish."

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p4f5c4590b4a7f6fd442de84b6502a350/fce7c545.jpg
Stern view showing the layout of the boards and the name. What a lovely backside!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/pcbe1f3f524c3f81683f09e370a1c8d5f/fce7c533.jpg
Looking through the companionway. Good view of the companionway slide and the aft bulkhead. Also shows some construction detail for the cabin top.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p7e160148d79b425a4cc0c04844ec39d9/fce7c52a.jpg
Inside the cabin. Lots of details here. The cabin on the DH17 is pretty cramped, but two people could sleep in her in a pinch. It's difficult to see forward of the cabin trunk as it's all painted with red lead. However, it's all open.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/pb552dae80f37536162cc7e41845807c7/fce7c523.jpg
A view of the underside of the deck on the port side.

From what little info I've been able gather, I think many of the original DH17s have been converted to a deep cockpit. This one looks pretty much like the plans (I have a set), at least from the waterline up. I hope these answer the mail (at least for now). ;)

Bill Deming

[ 12-22-2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: NevadaBoy ]

[Wild Dingo]

oh gawd strewth...

sllluuuuuuurrrrrrrrp... aaaaaahhhhhhhh.... ppppppppllllllloooooooooop! bang! crunch! ohhhh thite!!!

{that was me eyes poppin of the screen forhead whackin the monitor and the tongue gettin crushed as it recoiled back into me gob from the floor}

WARNINTHS BILL!!!... For gawth thake mathe warninths!!... :eek:

That was purely the finest kind Bill... finest kind :cool:

Now to race out the back to grab the drool bucket and come back and have another gander!!! man shes sweet! :cool:

Take it easy
Shane

[holzbt]

What ever happened to the Dark Harbor 17 that sank in Port Jefferson harbor that redonebyme posted about a few weeks ago?

[True Love]

Wild Dingo - There's a Dark Harbor 17 1/2 for sale up in Maine (if she's not already been bought) - was listed in WB just a bit ago. I saw photos of her - very pretty. If you are interested, I could dig up the info.

[Art Read]

OT, TL... Got your message... Reply as soon as all this "Holiday" foolishness is over... ;)

[True Love]

No sweat, Dear Art. Know you are busy - enjoy the holiday - Merry Christmas to you and yours. Did you hang a wreath on the bow?

[Thad]

Tom thinks the card file is still the only catalog of the plans in the Peabody collection. He will be on the job Friday and look for FAME, and STRANGER for MMD. Happy New Year!!

[Wild Dingo]

Just thought Id bring this up again...

2 months and still waiting :( ...that building project must be a whopper wonder if Tom and the plans have gone into hibernation?

Did you ever get back to me Thad? If so I dont think I ever got it!... maybe I should just settle for the Dark Harbour 17 1/2??? ...sigh :rolleyes:

Of course it could be just a museum thing?... like the Australian Maritime Museum I contacted a fair while back too for plans of a couta boat... but they aint got back to me either... sigh :(

[ 02-13-2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[mmd]

Shane, Crowninshield's papers are kept by the Peabody-Essex Museum in Salem, Massachusetts. You can contact them at www.reference@pem.org (http://www.reference@pem.org) but don't be in a hurry - I e-mailed them two weeks ago and have recieved four notifications that someone has opened the e-mail, but no reply as of yet. :rolleyes:

[Wild Dingo]

mate at least you got recognition!! :eek: :rolleyes: sigh oh well never mind onwards and upwards!

[Thad]

Tom found MMD's schooner but the FAME he came up with is a bigger boat, so I will have to get him to look again at that. MMD, I can ask Tom if he could help get your material quicker. I thought I had posted these results here but no. Where then? Thanks Shane.

[mmd]

Thad, I e-mailed the museum - attn: Mr. Fennimore - and asked them to supply me with a quoted price for the drawings of the schooner in question, and to advise me of any attendant legalities in using the design as the basis for a new boat. It appears that everyone in the office is reading the e-mail, but no-one is answering back. I guess I'll have to spend time on the phone. :rolleyes:

[Thad]

G'luck, as the Dingo might say. Dan Fennimore is a good man, but may be hard to catch.

[ 02-14-2003, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Thad ]