A lurker and a convert to virtual boat building

[Malcolm]

Greetings,

A little while ago I posted my first forum question regarding saving 10% off Mr Strange's "Wenda". Please accept my humble apologies and thank you for the responses and the advise. Since then I've been a lurking on the forum.

So here the real story, I'm coming off the back end of 4 years of MBA (an aged student) and need something to do in the wee hours. Since I have always loved to sail and have spent sometime on a Young 99, the new project is building a boat, but a classic not plaastic (does that rhyme?)

But what boat, I have looked at many, spent a fortune at Amazon.com and had many sleepless nights dreaming about a Malabar II....

But back to reality, I would like something that I can take my two boys out on, and the wife if its not too windy, but also have the ability to really blow the covers off after a had day at the office.

The final choice, the John G Alden, Indian class, WB No. 42. She’s a classic, has better lines than most center folds and is 'almost' a simple construction (open to debate) than Wenda. Plus she will fit in the shed.

Heres the question, has anybody built one of these lately and if so any advice? I’m ordering the plans on Wednesday after my final exam and construction starts in January.

On a perosnal note, I have found the culture of this forum entertaining and enlightening and really appreciate the openness of communications that goes on here. I know already before I start that there is a larger world outside of the shed at the bottom of the garden.

Cheers

[Gordy]

Malcolm,
Now that you've made up your mind, let me confuse things a bit. I built a Core Sound 17 and am terribly impressed with it. It's stitch and glue, has beautiful lines and went together just like it was supposed to. It's an incredibly simple sprit rig that proves to be very efficient.
Here's a couple links you might like.

And yes, I am an unabashed supporter of Graham Byrnes and his designs.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/default.htm
http://www.messing-about.com/smallboats/albums.htm

[Charlie J]

There's also a bulletin board for B and B yachts- I've built one of his designs and plan a second this winter. Nice folks, Graham and Carla. Graham visits the board frequently.

http://www.messing-about.com/B&B/webbbs_config.pl?#9

[Thad]

David Corcoran built a modified Indian at Bullhouse Boatworks a couple of years ago. Build the real thing -- It is a great design and a super boat to sail! There is one here across the street from my shop that should be in the water again next Summer.

[Bruce Taylor]

A beautiful boat. It's not a small project, although it doesn't look especially difficult. Things might get finicky around that rudder post, the ultra-wide garboard, the coaming & deck. Is this your first boat?

[ishmael]

Hello,

I rebuilt one a few years ago. Not much hull work needed but everything else: transom, deck frame, decking, coamings, rails. Only got to sail it one season, but it was a very fun boat. Fast, a well balanced, light helm, and a real looker.

Bruce is right, the trickiest parts of all that I replaced were the coamings. I broke one piece of stock bending it, but it wasn't a very nice piece anyway. Essentially, I used the boat as a jig, making and clamping uprights to the deck edge. Then after the steaming of the stock, the cutting and shaping. Aside from the breaking of the one piece it went quite smoothly.

One thought, some of the stock required for the hull planking is quite wide. Are you planning on building as per original? My hull was cedar, and I remember marveling at the wide clear stock the builder had had available. I also have thought it would make a good design for glued lapstrake construction

Great project. If I can be of any help, let me know.

Jack

[Bruce Taylor]

Yeah, the study plans mention the possibility of making up wide planks by dory-lapping a couple of narrower ones. Sounds like no fun at all.

On the other hand, half the frames are sawn, and it looks like you've got a plank keel there, which simplifies things a bit.

I love the stem profile.

[Malcolm]

Thanks for the input guys.

While I do appreciate the referrals to other boats, now that I've made up my mind I'll stick it it. That way she might actially get built! ;)

So here's a couple of design questions.

Apart some tradition (yes, I know what this could set off) is there any reason why the contruction can't be out of high grade marine ply, also would steel centre board provide a little more stablility (haul up would have to thought about to cater for the extra weight)

As to her lines, 'but of course, shes an Alden'

[ishmael]

Malcolm,

I think ply would work quite well. Given the original dory construction, over sawn frames that act as a mold, there should be little re-engineering to do. Because ply is stronger across the plank width than solid stock, you could probably forgoe the intermediate bent frames. Laminating might be the way to go for really strong framing. The only reason not to use ply is that it is less pleasing to work with, though it depends on how you define pleasing. Picking through, finding properly swept pieces, and scarfing solid stock is not some folks idea of a good time.

As to the steel centre plate. It sounds good in theory, but I wonder if after you engineer the lift mechanism you will end up not really having gained much. I've heard that a steel plate really doesn't buy much stability in a boat of this sort, but maybe someone else knows more about that.

I will say that with only 200 lbs of lead in the bilges(what the boat arrived with, and I never got around to buying more) the boat was reasonably stiff. My wife and I sailed in some fairly blustery weather on the coast of Maine, and rarely tied in a reef. The plan calls for three hundred lbs., if I'm not mistaken.

Best of luck,

Jack

Oh, an interesting side note. It's my understanding that the boat was actually drawn by Sam Crocker when he worked at Alden's office.

One other thing. My boat had an aft bulkhead of t-g pine. I think I would consider a forward bulkhead, and making both of them with water tight hatches. It would make self-rescue, in the event of a swamping, more likely. I remember looking at all that open space and wondering what it would be like if we ever filled the boat. Granted, not all that likely with it's side decks and coamings, but accidents happen.

You do realize that you are going to build a racing boat? While not as frisky as a planing hull, that 230 ft. of sail is quite a cloud in an open, 20 ft. ballasted centerboarder. We out-sailed just about every dispacement boat up to about 28 ft. in impromptu races, the one summer we sailed the boat. Especially off the wind. Fun, fun, fun.

Floatation, what's that? Foam under the decks would be another less aesthetic option.

I'll be excited to hear about your project as it progresses. I loved that boat.

[ 12-01-2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Malcolm]

Jack,

Thanks for update. Thats what I thought about the use of ply, especially with the wide garboard.

Also, the water bulkheads I feel are a must as this will provide a level of safty when the whole thing goes toes up on when we are steaming along under 230 sqft and the wheel falls off :D

Bruce, yes this is my first boat build, but what a way to learn.

As to Sam Cocker, although "50 Wooden Boats" mentions Sam doing the drawings in 1921. I have "john G Alden and his Yacht Designs" it doesn't mention Sam around the Indians but rather the San Francisco Bird Class. However, it should be noted that the use of Indian in Alden's desings went across a number of classes i.e Indian Harbor Arrows, the Pequot-Black Rock One design 239s that "were dubbed the Indian Class by their owners, and the Nantucket One-Design #398 which appears to be the sames as the Indian class in 50 WBs. These were built between 1929 and 1931 for the Nantucket Yacht Club. They were described as "very evenly matched and produced some widly exciting racing all through the years" (Allen Mills Nanticket YC)

Guess thats what you get with 230 sqft of sail a 21' dory :D

[ishmael]

Malcolm,

You're contemplating the boat I wanted to build after sailing Sacagawea for a summer. Glued lap, water tight bulkheads, modern materials, traditional look.

Who cares who drew it? it is a GREAT boat!, and not many built these days.

You better do it, or this kid will be major disappointed.

:D

Jack

[imported_Conrad]

A quick calculation shows that the effect of the steel centerboard would be the same as about 40 lbs. on the rail- I doubt you would notice much difference.

[Malcolm]

Jack,

So its a race your after

Malcolm

:D

PS. Do you ever sleep?

[ishmael]

Nah, not a race my friend. I said I rebuilt that boat a few years ago, but it's pushing twenty. It was just such a great boat, and great experience re-building it, that it seems like yesterday.

Though the Indian is a fantastic boat, I'll sail my Drascombe Lugger and dream of boats to live on.

All the while enjoying your Indian as a voyeur.

:D

Jack

[ 12-01-2002, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[mark ward]

Hi Malcolm, I understand your desire at this stage to keep with your chosen design, she is a very beautiful vessel. If it's of any concern, I'm currently building an Alden Triangle, designed several years later than the Indian class. In "alden and his yacht designs" however, I think there are some quite similar details, and would enjoy tossing ideas back and forth with you as you proceed down this treacherous path that I can't seem to remove myself from. Best of luck to you!

m.