Large dory designs

[ishmael]

Does anyone know of large dory designs for traditional construction? Something along the lines of Benford's Badger et al. Either flat or round sided. Something capable of crossing an ocean.

[NormMessinger]

Hey, who let you out of the bilge?

[ishmael]

Didn't know I was exiled there?

[Alan D. Hyde]

There are numerous designs for large St. Pierre dories around, and some are available (as I recall) from the kindly sponsors of this website...

Alan

[gary porter]

Jack, are you talking something bigger than say a St. Pierre Dory? I've seen them stretched out to 30+ feet and rigged for sail as well.
Gary

[ishmael]

Well, I'm looking for a design to build over the next three years or so. I rather admire Benford's Badger, but really don't relish the thought of working with epoxy and plywood.

Working criteria:

Traditional construction

Open ocean capable

Relatively easy to build

Shallow draft, ie centerboarder

Comfortable liveaboard for two

I keep thinking I'm talking about a Presto type, though it wouldn't be as easy to assemble as a Banks style dory. I've got half a dozen mature white pines on my new property, which I hope will be suitable for planking stock. There's a sawyer right next door.

Jack

P.S. Anyone know the keel arrangement on Badger. I seem to remember from the drawing I've seen that there is an optional lifting keel of some sort.

[ 03-25-2003, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Venchka]

The folks at the Badger Group at Yahoo! could help with Badger questions.

Badger Owner/Builder Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BadgerOwnerBuilders/)

I needed a good reason to open The Dory Book tonight. I will refresh my memory on what's in there and let you know tomorrow.

The world needs more good dories!

[TR]

Jack;

I just checked Annie Hill's book for drawings of Badger, all Jay's dory’s are there, but no lifting keel. All the Benford dory designs are equipped with a ballasted fin keel. Badger herself is equipped with a Collins Tandem Keel, a retrofit which reduced her draft by about 6". The Collins keel is a pair of fins connected on the bottom by a large flat wing, all cast iron I believe.

In WB # 92 is the story of a boat called Dakini. A 34'6" dory/sharpie cross designed by Phil Bolger for Mait Edey. She is set up with two centerboards and a gaff yawl rig. There's a good write-up on her vices and performance. Perhaps Phil could be persuaded to give you some revised scantlings for her. Or you could addapt Dakini with Gardner's scantlings for a St. Pierre.

Dakini has 7'11" beam, draft is 1'11" B/U, displacement 6000 pounds, 2000 pounds of inside ballast, and 384 sq. ft. of sail.

Best, Tad

[Venchka]

I checked in The Dory Book last night and John Gardner gives offsets and lines for two St. Pierre dories. Construction details are very traditional, plank on sawn frames.

The largest is a widened version with the following dimensions:

27'-0" LOA
9'-0 1/2" Max. Beam
5'-2 1/2" Beam across the bottom

No information on sailing rig, keel or centerboard. He does caution against overpowering the hull. Reading between the lines, I suppose he is saying that the CE should be kept low. There is a photograph of a sailing version with a gaff sloop rig with bowsprit.

The McNaughton Group has two designs in the Silver Gull Series:
Silver Gull (http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/stockplans.htm)

[Steve Paskey]

This is smaller than you want, and not "ocean-capable," but nonetheless fits in the general topic at hand . . .

Pete Culler -- a man with no use for googe if ever there was one -- designed a 25-foot ketch-rigged sailing dory with minimal accommodations. There are two much-reduced drawings in "Skiffs and Schooners," and she looks like a lovely boat. (Culler's plans are now available from Mystic if anyone's interested.)

[ 03-26-2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[Dennis Marshall]

Ish, another, smaller possibility is John Atkin's "Merry Weather" a 23ft x 5'6" ketch rigged banks dory. Here are the specifics:

LOA 22'7 1/2"
LWL 19'
Beam 5'6"
Lapstrake contruction
SA 157 sq ft
fin keel (lead) 404#

An even nicer boat, if you like skip jacks, is Atkin's "Coot" a 27 foot schooner that will make your heart pound with lust.

Dennis

[pjwalsh]

How about Josh Slocum's Liberdade? The drawings in the book "Voyage of the Liberdade" are not exactly plans but that would just allow plenty of scope for boatbuilder creativity - we all seem to need plenty of that.

It is sort of a dory-sampan mixture, 35' length.

A link to the illustrations

http://www.mcallen.lib.tx.us/orgs/liberd1.htm

[ 03-28-2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: pjwalsh ]

[ishmael]

Now there's an itriguing idea PJ. Bamboo sponsons and all. smile.gif

I used to live just up the road from you, in Warwick.

[pjwalsh]

Good to meet another hill town billy,

I am actually a Wendell native - spent many an evening at the Warwick Inn when it was still a real tavern and not just a fluffy B&B.

I am interested to know what your motivation for going with a traditional construction is? I have done a lot of building in fiberglass, and wood composites, but recently have been thinking of a traditional wood construction project too.

[Dave Williams]

Ish,

There is a current thread here in Designs titled Pinked Stern. You might be interested in the boat in question.

Here's to kindness,
Dave

[ishmael]

Hi PJ,

I've done a little buiding in both composites and timber. Working with solid wood is just more pleasant...much more pleasant. Clearly not as 'elegant' from an engineering standpoint, but long and proven.

An added incentive is that I have these white pines, and a sawyer next door.

It's hard to say anything, except it's time to build a boat.

Jack

[TomRobb]

My (often faulty) understanding is that if it's a decent sailer you want, a dory isn't the best place to begin. By the time you make her bottom wide enough to cary sail well she might as well be somthing else - a sharpy perhaps - but then are sharpies considered likely blue water sailers?

[Venchka]

I heartily second what Tom Robb just said. I wanted a dory forever but I also wanted a sailboat. I finally gave up on the idea of a sailing dory.

I know this is way off target, but what about ELLY? Cover boat of WB 162. Clinker construction. Live aboard size. Proven ability. Go for it!

Good luck!

[Dennis Marshall]

Yes, and when you start talking sharpies, who fails to drool at the mention of Clapham's Roslyn Yawl Minocqua? Check out Parker's Sharpie Book on that one.

Of course, there is also Sea Bird and her various interpretations. Right up your alley, Ish.

Dennis

[Venchka]

ELLY (http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001597&p=)

[SailBoatDude]

Jay Benford's dory line, at last check, was up to 37 feet on deck. These seem quite able little cruisers. If memory serves he has a 30, 32, 34, 36 & 37 foot version of his refined dory form.

They have fin keels, simple construction and can be built on the cheap. What has that book "Cruising on a shoe string . . ." or something?

I don't like the lack of a real bilge to speak of, but we all love our compromises accepted in boat design.

[swingking]

Parker's 28' Egret is close to a dory. He says it could be scaled up to 45' for standing headroom and 50'-60' max ("The Sharpie Book" p161)
see:
http://www.parker-marine.com/28shegretpage.htm

[JimD]

Ishmael, a little off topic, but why do you want to cross an ocean in a dory??

[TomRobb]

I thought Jim's question was a good one.

[Dave K]

I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but if it's a dory you want, Ted Brewer's "Grand Banks 22" and "Grand Banks 28" are nice boats; I can say from experience that the "22" sails really well ( no room here for anecdotes but we embarrassed some much more expensive craft). Construction is ply & epoxy OR seam batten planking (pine works well with this). You might also want to check out Tom Colvin's "Hattie Belle IV" (28 ft.) or "Radian" (36 ft.), also his "Julia II" (25 ft.) and "Saugeen Witch" (34 ft.) Ply construction is fine for all of these, and seam batten or strip should work just fine - ask Tom.

[RonW]

Why not look at the chesapeake bay sharpie's, they are dory,s. should be able to find plans from 20ft. to 50 ft. glen-l has a 27 footer. Shallow draft and beachable, as well as rough water capable.

[garland reese]

Maybe not exactly a dory, but not too far from the concept (Swampscot maybe....). And simple wood construction.....from George Buehler.
http://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/Jays%20Juna1.jpg
http://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/Juna%20Lines.jpg http://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/Juna%20sailplan2.jpg

[ 02-04-2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

[Kermit]

Now if it's an ocean-crossing dory you be wantin', and you don't mind doing it under d'sl, have a look in Bill Garden's YACHT DESIGNS II, and peek at "Tlingit and Two Dories." The big 'un is as follows:

LOA 88'0"
LWL 70'0"
Breadth 15'0"
Draft 5'0"
Displacement 78,000 lbs
Ballast 10,000 lbs
Power 6-71 GM diesel
Speed 10 knots

Bill says "bone simple" and estimates about 8000 man-hours. Let me know when you're ready to launch.

[Steve T.]

Parker Marine has a big dory design. It's drawn as a power boat but I was corresponding with them a while back and he said a center board and sail rig would be easy to add.

http://www.parker-marine.com/dor501.jpg

http://www.parker-marine.com/dor502.jpg

http://www.parker-marine.com/dor503.jpg

http://www.parker-marine.com

Steve T.