chebacco VS windward 21

[skaraborgcraft]

I dont think either Bolgers Chebacco(chine version) or Karls windward 21 needs much introduction here,i would post pics and links if i knew how to. Anyway, for family daysailing on a large lake, which would you choose if you had to build it yourself. Many Chebaccos have been built,and apparently the windward has a few builders too,but Karl has no pictures of any completed boats. Its taken a while to whittle down the list of possibilites to these two. I have the option of keeping the boat afloat or trailing it. I would be interested to hear any comments or suggestions. Cheers

[JimD]

To post links and pics just copy/paste them from cmd's website. The obvious thing when comparing these two boats is how much is known about them. There is so much out there on Chebacco you can be very confident you know what you'll be getting before hand. Windward 21 has a couple sentence description on the designer's website. I suspect Windward would be faster.

http://www.cmdboats.com/images/windward21.jpg

[James McMullen]

I would definitely, absolutely, without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt-ly build the cat-yawl instead of the cat-ketch. The mizzen on the Windward 21 couldn't hardly be any more inconvenient or in the way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in that cockpit!

There's no way you won't have to duck and dodge either or both of those sails on each and every tack or gybe.

[skaraborgcraft]

i agree with your observation.I also prefer the gaff main on the Chebacco. Any comments on hull charachteristics?

[Steve Paskey]

For family daysailing on a large lake? If I'm building it myself, I'd probably choose "none of the above." Is that an option? Why'd you pick these two?

[skaraborgcraft]

theres always an option! However,my reason for interest in these two is ease of building,small cuddy,and practicality. I much prefer the look of the lapstrake Chebacco,but i want the faster build time. I like traditional looks,and l was thiking of swampscott type dory,but something with a small cuddy and ability to take a good size cockpit tent meant something a little larger.I think both these designs offer a good compromise for the intended purpose. I dont want to spend 4 years in a shed building. Cheers

[Yeadon]

Romilly is a hot little number worth considering, too. Scroll to the bottom of the table on this page (http://www.burnettyachtdesign.co.uk/studyplans.html) and take a look.

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/images/romilly_-_w25.jpg

[DGentry]

Perhaps take a look at Bolger's "Summer Ease" - big cockpit, with cuddy. Not quite the looks of a lapstrake Chebacco, but hard chine ply (not square!) and likely faster to build. Water ballast, too.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/alias1719/summerease1.jpg

Specs:
Length on deck 23'6"
Length waterline 17'3"
Breadth overall 6' 2"
Hull centerboard raised 10"
Draft centerboard fully lowered 4'0"
Displacement in sailing trim (designed waterline) 2500 lbs.
Water ballast in double bottom 96 gallons or 820 lbs.
Sail area 150 sq.ft. mainsail, 52 sq. ft. mizzen
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/alias1719/summerease2.jpg

[skaraborgcraft]

Romilly is a nice boat.I love the rig,i saw her sailing in Falmouth shortly after launch. If i recall she was strip plank and sheathed. I dont want to deal with a mass of epoxy. I quite like a well designed chine boat,and ply on frame construction. If i didnt have time constraints, a Rozinante would fit the bill nicely. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

RE summer ease. Never see that design before, interesting but getting on the large side.Anyone built one,would like to see pictures. There is always a point when you have to say stop with adding a few more feet,a few more pounds of displacement,sails get bigger and so does the outboard and so does the final cost in terms of time ,materials and money. I dont want an ugly boat,and of course everyones taste is different. Cheers

[Woxbox]

For one thing, the Chebacco would have real resale value down the road. I like that choice myself. A decent-sized cuddy will allow you to store all the vitals in the boat, and stuff doesn't get wet when trailering in the rain. Surprisingly, more than one reviewer has said that the chine version and lapstrake version sail equally well. You really can't go wrong with a Chebacco.

[Steve Paskey]

The Chebacco is a great boat. If it were me I'd go with something lighter, less expensive, and even easier to build ... maybe a Core Sound 17 or 20, or John Welsford's "Sweet Pea." www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sweetpea/index.htm But then I have no tolerance for trailering a boat the size and weight of Chebacco.

But if you like Chebacco, and you're sure you'll be comfortable with trailering, launching, and retrieving her, go for it.

[Jamie Orr]

Be warned, I'm totally biased because I built my own Chebacco and have been sailing it for 10 years now. It's been a total 100% success. The Windward 21 is probably a good boat too, but here are some comments on the Chebacco, all proven by history.

Pros:
- Good looking, I get comments on her almost every time I go sailing.
- Simple rig, no shrouds, boom is high enough that bumping heads has never been a concern
- Easy to trail. I use a 15 year old Plymouth Voyager van, have hauled it on 1,000 mile trips with no trouble. With spars inside the cabin, the mast sticks over the transom by a foot or so, about level with the back of the engine.
- The cuddy will sleep two adult males, 6 feet tall and over 200 lbs, without crowding. This is in the cuddy as designed, some folks have made it higher and wider.
- The mizzen position makes it possible to sling a simple boom tent over the boom that covers the whole 7 feet of cockpit.
- By using the floorboards to bridge the footwell, the whole cockpit becomes a 6x7 foot sleeping platform under that boom tent (gear can be stored under the platform) We've cruised with three adults and once slept four on board, but two adults are optimal for cruising. Daysailing, it depends on the weather, has been as high as nine (not recommended).
- The boat takes an outboard on the centre of the transom without getting in the way of the rudder; the gas tank is in a well outside the cockpit, no mess, no fuss.
- there is storage space in cuddy, under cockpit seats and in aft lockers.
- won't beat a Martin 242 to windward, but as far as I can tell she sails as well as any traditional rig in her size, and better than many.
- has a network of other builders to consult, see www.chebacco.com (You can probably find someone not too far away and bum a sail on his/hers to help you decide.)

Cons:
- Not a rowing boat, although it can be done in a pinch. I've rowed her 20 miles in 8 hours (some help from the wind, but not much) but don't recommend it.
- The shallow keel, about 5 inches deep, means you need that much more water at the ramp to launch than a flat bottom with no keel at all. Except for one very shallow ramp at a small lake, I've managed to get her off every time, although it wasn't always pretty.
- All those compliments and questions at the ramp can slow you down and make you miss some sailing!

I warned you I was biased!

Jamie Orr
Chebacco Wayward Lass

[mcdenny]

Skaraborgcraft,

Just a comment that the lapstrake hull vs double chine won't make much difference in build time. I'd bet in a Chebacco with a decently finished interior, the hull would only represent 25- 30 % of the total build time.

If you like the lapstrake look better it will only add a few percent to the build time. Check out the video here of Howard Sharp's beautiful lapstrake Chebacco sailing on the Hudson river.

[SScoville]

I have pretty much nil experience sailing (although I hope to change that in about 6 weeks), I am building my second boat and will point out that every additional piece of interior structure seems to add exponentially to building time - and epoxy - in my experience. I like the Windward design, but I would try to get in touch with the few who have built it and ask them some questions - like James' concern about the mizzen mast being in the way.

[skaraborgcraft]

Thanks for the input chaps.
Welsford sweet pea was on the list also,but didnt make the final 2.
In regards to lapstrake planking and percentage of overall buildig time,i agree to a point,but as mentioned,if time and money was not an issue,i would build a rozinate....good resale value there too.
Jamie,thanks for the PM,its good to hear real feedback on what a boat is like to live with,just a shame i cant get the same with Windward 21.
As for the core sound boats,they were discounted on their looks,otherwise they are very capable boats.
As for the towing issues.....well...in comparison to one of my present boats,either of my choices will be easier. Cheers.
I dont seem to be able to copy a picture here......sorry!

[skaraborgcraft]

i dont have any of my pictures held online,so cannot post any here yet. One of the other boats i was looking at was from American small sailig craft, a 26ft sailig dory,with a similar profile to the widward.A cape ann 22ft was also a possibility......but i wanted something with a little more initial stability,and dare i say,better sailing performance.Although both of these could be rowed,a small outboard is the prefered method for any distance.
Im still open to suggestions,the "summer ease" design i really like,but maybee just a wee bit too big. Cheers