Suggest a daysailer design

[JimConlin]

Requirements:
Will be trailered
accommodate 2 adults and 3 kids, ages 4-8
Used in sheltered waters
Passably good rowboat
motor not planned
easily singlehanded
easily rigged
glued lap, multichine plywood or strip (composite) construction

Thanks,
Jim

[Dennis Marshall]

Jim, you can search the data base for discussions ad infinitum on this very topic. My vote:

Green Island 15 (http://www.headlandboats.com/main.html)

Regards,

Dennis

[Dennis Marshall]

Jim, check out the following discussion too:

trailerable daysailer (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000457)

[Steve Paskey]

Jim: There are, well, a veritable boatload of choices that would fit your criteria. If you have any preferences regarding construction method or rig, it would help narrow things down.

[ishmael]

What Steve said. Do you have any interest at all in racing? If so, you should build something with a class nearby.

But check out the 'beachcruisers' here.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/default.htm

Handsome, able, easily built little boats.

[Shalfleet]

Arch Davis' Penobscot 14 would be a good choice. His designs and instructions are very detailed and the video is a great option if you have not built before.

[Ben Fuller]

As soon as you say rowing passably, rig easily you are moving out of the modern daysailer design which generally are not set up for rowing and usually have rigs needing shrouds, fairly high rig tensions.

You should be in the traditionally derived realm. You capacity needs are such that anything under 17 feet will not be good.

Modern designs that would work would be Arch Davis' 17 footer, designs like the Harrier by Tony Dias, several Norweigian or dory based designs by Ian Oughtred.

For traditional boats that would work, the big 17' plus Swampscotts have been satisfactory in this role.

[Bruce Taylor]

If you're willing to compromise on rowing ability, see John Welsford's Navigator:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/navigator/navdwg.gif

or the smaller Rogue, or the larger Pathfinder.

All can be seen here:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/index.htm

Also have a look at Iain Oughtred's Gannet and Fulmar (both of which can be rowed, if absolutely necessary) or Shearwater, which is said to row reasonably well:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/dfwbphp/designINDEX.php?ID=1

[ 03-30-2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[Dave Fleming]

From David Goodchilds web site:

Buddy (http://www.dngoodchild.com/5109.htm)

[Venchka]

This topic comes up more often than not. Will the more learned and more experienced members of the group help to define the parameters of such a boat?

I'll jump in and start things off with what lillte (and it is very little) I know.


Originally posted by JimConlin:
Requirements:
Will be trailered
Easy requirement-most open boats+trailer = 1,000 pounds.

accommodate 2 adults and 3 kids, ages 4-8
Be realistic here-the kids will be older by launch day & get bigger all the time. And they need as much space (or more) than adults. Allow 700 pounds of safe working cargo capacity. Minimum.

Used in sheltered waters
Any boat with sufficient safe working cargo capacity and space for 5 will work.

Passably good rowboat
Here's the rub. More beam means more cargo capacity and space and less easily rowed. Two rowers side by side can overcome this.

motor not planned
Plan one if you decide to venture out of sheltered waters. A small 2hp outboard will get you and the family home safely when nothing else will.

easily singlehanded
This is more a function of rig and layout than boat design. Any boat meeting all the other requirements can be sailed alone.

easily rigged
One or two unstayed spars are easy to rig. But even a boat like Welsford's yawls aren't too complex.

glued lap, multichine plywood or strip (composite construction)
I personally would look at the previous requirements before ruling out other construction methods. But, we all know what we like and construction could come first.

Thanks,
JimIt seems to me that you can build a boat for you and your family to grow out of and move on to a larger boat later. Not a bad way to go. Or, build a boat to grow into. Not a bad way to go either.

On the space needs, try sitting the family on a picnic table. Can all of you sit comfortably side by side on a 6 foot picnic table bench? Or do you need more room? Once you know this, you can look at boats accordingly.

Somewhere I read "If you want a bigger boat, buy one a foot wider instead of 5 feet longer." It makes sense. John Welsford's dinghies are generally wider than most for their length. Conversely, the Whitehall reproductions tend to be narrow and not afford much interior space.

Tom Lathrop sings the praises of the 15' Bay River Skiff from B & B Yachts for exactly the use you intend. It's also available in a 17' version. B & B also has the Core Sound 17 which by all accounts would be great for a family of 5. Rowing might not be it's finest point-that's where a small motor comes in.

Karl Stambaugh has at least 4 designs that might suit your needs. Windward 15 & 17 and the Catbird 16 & 18. Karl Stambaugh Designs (http://www.cmdboats.com/)

John Welsford's fine Navigator has an excellent pedigree with many open water miles under it's keel. His new Pathfinder carries on the tradition in a bit larger size. John Welsford (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/index.htm)

D. H. Kurylko's Alaska is a lovely boat. Narrow but long at 18'-1" and stip built. Alaska (http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/designs.htm)

The Penobscot 17, to my mind, might be cramped for 5.

Iain Oughtred, as mentioned above, has designs in this range. In addition to the 2 dinghies, there is the Ness Yawl and Caledonia Yawl. I chose the Caledonia Yawl for my "family": 4 adults and two grandaughters.

Not a complete list by any means, but the above boats have been built in suitable numbers to have a proven record.

Cheers!

[Gordy]

My Core Sound 17 rows quite nicely. My GPS said 2 1/2 knots at an easy rate, and, when I whipped the bay to a froth looking like an idiot, I hit 4.2 knots.

It'll carry what you want and is a great sailing boat.

I rig and launch it myself and it's quick and easy.

It is, however, somewhat easier to build than what you're looking for.

Here are a few pictures at this link.

http://groups.msn.com/smallboats/gordyscoresound17.msnw?Page=1

Gordy

[JimConlin]

I'll try to amplify a bit on my earlier post.
First, I'm not the user. I've been approached by someone who asked my help in selecting a design.

Will be trailered
My supposition is that, in the land of big vehicles, a gross trailer weight of under 1,500 lbs. is no major problem. The bigger issues of trailering is whether it's easy to get the boat onto the trailer. Deep fin keels are out.

accommodate 2 adults and 3 kids, ages 4-8
I'm not qualified to extrapolate whether this brood will increase or the opposite. If my personal experience is any guide, in ten years he'll be a candidate for a kayak.

Used in sheltered waters
Full decks and teeny self-bailing cockpits are not needed.

Passably good rowboat
Should have a beam of between 4' and 5'6" and not be terribly heavy

motor not planned
So double-enders are not ruled out.

easily singlehanded
In my mind, the rigging issues aren't hard to deal with. The big issue is whether reducing sail is easy and whether the boat has at least some stability that doesn't depend on live ballast on the weather rail. A Thistle wouldn't do.

easily rigged
The boat will be used for short outings. A simple rig with lightweight unstayed spar(s) and simple (or bundled with the rig) running rigging is preferred.

glued lap, multichine plywood or strip (composite) construction
To this user, aesthetics are important. The construction method should have appearance that evokes older elegance and can tolerate dry-sailing.
In this size range, foam composite isn't indicated and we don't need the light weight of cold molding.

There have been many good suggestions to date. I've discovered some boats I didn't know about and remembered some which i greatly admired, like Tony Dias's Harrier.
This has been very helpful.

Thanks a lot,
Jim



Will be trailered Will be trailered

[Venchka]

Be sure and post a follow-up giving your selection and why.

Good luck!

[Ben Fuller]

Jim, note that you are in Mass. If your travels take you to Maine, Pen Bay area or Muscongus, it would be possible to take the Harrier for a spin.

On trailers if you can stay under 1000 GVW, a 4 2L four banger can easily handle the load.