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Art Read
02-13-2010, 09:47 AM
A complete list of things caused by global warming: http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

(You can click on each entry on the link)

Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, poppies more potent, Africa devastated, Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, African summer frost, aggressive weeds, Air France crash, air pressure changes, airport malaria, Agulhas current, Al Qaeda and Taliban Being Helped, allergy season longer, alligators in the Thames, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, animals shrink, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra lost, Arctic warming (not), asthma, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer and bread prices to soar, beer better, beer worse, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird strikes, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds decline (Wales), birds driven north, birds face longer migrations, birds return early, birds shrink, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blood contaminated, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brain eating amoebae, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city, Britain Siberian, British monsoon, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, butterflies move north, carbon crimes, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, coast beauty spots lost, cockroach migration, cod go south, coffee threatened, coffee berry borer, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), cold weather (world), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, crabgrass menace, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, deadly virus outbreaks, death rate increase (US), deaths to reach 6 million, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, dig sites threatened, disasters, diseases move north, dog disease, Dolomites collapse, dozen deadly diseases - or not, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, earlier pollen season, Earth axis tilt, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, pikas, polar bears, possums, walrus, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, salamanders, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever, figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fires fanned in Nepal, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish head north, fish shrinking, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flies on Everest, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, flora dispersed, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), football team migration, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, geese decline in Hampshire, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, geysers imperiled, giant icebergs (Australia), giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacier grows (California), glaciers on Snowden, glacier wrapped, global cooling, glowing clouds, golf course to drown, golf Masters wrecked, grain output drop (China), grandstanding, grasslands wetter, gravity shift, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, haggis threatened, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, health risks, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, homeless 50 million, hornets, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insect invasion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of alien worms, invasion of cats, invasion of crabgrass, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of king crabs, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, Italy robbed of pasta, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, large trees decline, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lawyers want more, legionnaires' surge, lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, locust plagues suppressed, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Meat eating to stop, Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, Melanoma decline, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys at risk, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National Parks damaged, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean acidification faster, ocean dead spots, ocean dead zones unleashed, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up,

Art Read
02-13-2010, 09:53 AM
(cont.) Olympic Games to end, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, penguin chicks frozen, penguin chicks smaller, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, pines decline, plankton blooms, plants lose protein, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears deaf, polar bears drowning, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, pushes poor women into prostitution, rabid bats, radars taken out, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, reindeer endangered, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, salmon stronger, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, seismic activity, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking sheep, shrinking shrine, Sidney Opera House wiped out, ski resorts threatened, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall decrease, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snow thicker, soaring food prices, societal collapse, soil change, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders getting bigger, spiders invade Scotland, squid larger, squid population explosion, squid tamed, squirrels reproduce earlier, stingray invasion, storms wetter, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, terrorists (India), threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tigers eat people, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, toxic seaweed, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, truffles down, turtles crash, turtle feminised, turtles lay earlier, UFO sightings, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, violin decline, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water scarcity (20% of increase), waves bigger, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whale beachings, whales lose weight, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, winds stronger, winds weaker, wine - Australian baked, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine - Scotland best, wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World War 4, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

and all on 0.006 deg C per year!

Advice of any omissions (with sources) or broken links is welcome at warmlist@numberwatch.co.uk

Note: All links were live at time of posting. Inevitably some will disappear, particularly from Yahoo News.

Thanks to correspondents for additional entries; especially, as always, Our Man in Puerto Rico. Also, thanks to "Scraperguy" for the script to form the following:

The dead link collection

Africa hit hardest, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, anxiety, Arctic tundra to burn, atmospheric defiance, bananas destroyed, beer shortage, blizzards, boredom, business opportunities, business risks, British gardens change, cardiac arrest, cataracts, challenges and opportunities, cloud stripping, cold spells, cremation to end, damages equivalent to $200 billion, dermatitis, desert life threatened, diarrhoea, disappearance of coastal cities, drowning people, early marriages, early spring, Earth spinning out of control, Earth wobbling, extinctions (bats, ladybirds, pandas, pigmy possums, koalas, turtles, orang-utan, elephants, tigers, gorillas, whales, frogs, penguins,) fish catches rise, flames stoked, footpath erosion, frosts, glacial growth, global dimming, god melts, Gore omnipresence, harmful algae, hazardous waste sites breached, high court debates, HIV epidemic, human health improvement, ice shelf collapse, lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, Lyme disease, jet stream drifts north, malnutrition, marine dead zone, Maple production advanced, mental illness (Alberta), migration difficult (birds), mountains melting, mudslides, oceans noisier, oblivion, oyster diseases, ozone loss, Pacific dead zone, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears starve, psychosocial disturbances, rainfall reduction, reindeer larger, riches, rivers dry up, rockfalls, shrimp sex problems, skin cancer, snowfall reduction, squid aggressive giants, stick insects, stormwater drains stressed, teenage drinking, terrorism, tree beetle attacks, trees could return to Antarctic, tree growth increased, tsunamis, tundra plant life boost, uprooted - 6 million, walrus displaced, war, war between US and Canada, water stress, water supply unreliability, weeds, whales wiped out, white Christmas dream ends.

Suggestions for replacement links are welcome.

Total Links (dead and alive) 690

Last updated 01 February 2010

redeye1962
02-13-2010, 09:58 AM
that is a mouthfull:eek:

Ian McColgin
02-13-2010, 10:01 AM
If you actually read it, under "extinctions" is included logic.

'Nuff said.

isla
02-13-2010, 10:02 AM
You didn't mention 'Increased right-wing ranting on WBF', or maybe that's caused by sunspots or something, who knows.

Art Read
02-13-2010, 10:03 AM
My personal "favorite"...

__________________________________________________ __

Global Warming: now it hits brothels


If people could still do this, they wouldn't want prostitutes. Or something like that.
Brothel owners in Bulgaria are blaming global warming for staff shortages.
They claim their best girls are working in ski resorts because a lack of snow has forced tourists to seek other pleasures.
Petra Nestorova, who runs an escort agency in Sofia, said: 'We have hired students, but they are temps and nothing like our elite girls.'

Pugwash
02-13-2010, 10:11 AM
You didn't mention 'Increased right-wing ranting on WBF', or maybe that's caused by sunspots or something, who knows.

I think the volume of generic right-wing C&Ps are directly related to snow fall.

It's just a theory, but I think it might have some merit.

:)

Nicholas Scheuer
02-13-2010, 10:11 AM
So, when and where does the "sexual promiscuity start?

Art Read
02-13-2010, 10:54 AM
Global Warming Ate My Homework: 100 Things Blamed on Global Warming
Posted November 17th, 2009 at 5:40pm in Energy and Environment

Late for a party? Miss a meeting? Forget to pay your rent? Blame climate change; everyone else is doing it. From an increase in severe acne to all societal collapses since the beginning of time, just about everything gone wrong in the world today can be attributed to climate change. Here’s a list of 100 storylines blaming climate change as the problem.

1. The deaths of Aspen trees in the West
2. Incredible shrinking sheep
3. Caribbean coral deaths
4. Eskimos forced to leave their village
5. Disappearing lake in Chile
6. Early heat wave in Vietnam
7. Malaria and water-borne diseases in Africa
8. Invasion of jellyfish in the Mediterranean
9. Break in the Arctic Ice Shelf
10. Monsoons in India
11. Birds laying their eggs early
12. 160,000 deaths a year
13. 315,000 deaths a year
14. 300,000 deaths a year
15. Decline in snowpack in the West
16. Deaths of walruses in Alaska
17. Hunger in Nepal
18. The appearance of oxygen-starved dead zones in the oceans
19. Surge in fatal shark attacks
20. Increasing number of typhoid cases in the Philippines
21. Boy Scout tornado deaths
22. Rise in asthma and hayfever
23. Duller fall foliage in 2007
24. Floods in Jakarta
25. Radical ecological shift in the North Sea
26. Snowfall in Baghdad
27. Western tree deaths
28. Diminishing desert resources
29. Pine beetles
30. Swedish beetles
31. Severe acne
32. Global conflict
33. Crash of Air France 447
34. Black Hawk Down incident
35. Amphibians breeding earlier
36. Flesh-eating disease
37. Global cooling
38. Bird strikes on US Airways 1549
39. Beer tastes different
40. Cougar attacks in Alberta
41. Suicide of farmers in Australia
42. Squirrels reproduce earlier
43. Monkeys moving to Great Rift Valley in Kenya
44. Confusion of migrating birds
45. Bigger tuna fish
46. Water shortages in Las Vegas
47. Worldwide hunger
48. Longer days
49. Earth spinning faster
50. Gender balance of crocodiles
51. Skin cancer deaths in UK
52. Increase in kidney stones in India
53. Penguin chicks frozen by global warming
54. Deaths of Minnesota moose
55. Increased threat of HIV/AIDS in developing countries
56. Increase of wasps in Alaska
57. Killer stingrays off British coasts
58. All societal collapses since the beginning of time
59. Bigger spiders
60. Increase in size of giant squid
61. Increase of orchids in UK
62. Collapse of gingerbread houses in Sweden
63. Cow infertility
64. Conflict in Darfur
65. Bluetongue outbreak in UK cows
66. Worldwide wars
67. Insomnia of children worried about global warming
68. Anxiety problems for people worried about climate change
69. Migration of cockroaches
70. Taller mountains due to melting glaciers
71. Drowning of four polar bears
72. UFO sightings in the UK
73. Hurricane Katrina
74. Greener mountains in Sweden
75. Decreased maple in maple trees
76. Cold wave in India
77. Worse traffic in LA because immigrants moving north
78. Increase in heart attacks and strokes
79. Rise in insurance premiums
80. Invasion of European species of earthworm in UK
81. Cold spells in Australia
82. Increase in crime
83. Boiling oceans
84. Grizzly deaths
85. Dengue fever
86. Lack of monsoons
87. Caterpillars devouring 45 towns in Liberia
88. Acid rain recovery
89. Global wheat shortage; food price hikes
90. Extinction of 13 species in Bangladesh
91. Changes in swan migration patterns in Siberia
92. The early arrival of Turkey’s endangered caretta carettas
93. Radical North Sea shift
94. Heroin addiction
95. Plant species climbing up mountains
96. Deadly fires in Australia
97. Droughts in Australia
98. The demise of California’s agriculture by the end of the century
99. Tsunami in South East Asia
100. Fashion victim: the death of the winter wardrobe

And the list goes on. The truth is climate change is causing some of these events, but the earth’s average temperature has been increasing and decreasing since the beginning of time. Maybe the increase in UFO sightings can’t be pinpointed to climate change but certainly animals will adapt to new habitats as the climate changes. But climate change and adaptation to it is nothing new. There’s an underlying assumption that human activity is causing the climate to change in many of these stories, but the scientific consensus on what causes climate change is anything but a consensus. Temperatures have risen and fallen many times before and the earth was cooling as recently as the period from the 1940s to the 1970s giving rise to fears of a coming ice age:

“At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind.” C.C. Wallen of the World Meteorological Organization said, “The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed.”

The other implication of this list is that a reduction in Co2 with cap and trade policies like Waxman-Markey and Boxer-Kerry will cure problems as disparate as hurricanes, wars, crime, hunger and…cow infertility. The problem is that no one can actually claim that a reduction of Co2 will prevent these occurrences; one can only speculate that they will be worse in a world that has more rather than less Co2. Given cap and trade’s massive economic consequences and negligible effects on the earth’s temperature, this is a bold and potentially very costly speculation.

Katie Brown co-authored this post.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/17/global-warming-ate-my-homework-100-things-blamed-on-global-warming/

WX
02-13-2010, 06:23 PM
is "more women willing to have sex with short fat guys" in there ?


Sure but the chances of her living near you are remote.:D
You may have to travel.

Captain Intrepid
02-13-2010, 06:32 PM
Ah. The grand old tradition of taking things out of context so you can mock them without fear.

WX
02-13-2010, 06:35 PM
Capt, I'm convinced it's happening but I am one mere mortal and the Gods of power sit on they hands. What can I do but see the humour, however black.

Clive P
02-13-2010, 06:56 PM
If you put the list to music, we'll all sing it in dis-harmony at our moorings. Clive P

seafox
02-13-2010, 10:49 PM
I read a goodly sampling of the stories above and found only one benifit that of earlyer birthing season and pasture growth for new zealand farmers. but hey even that warned east coast farmers would be at greater threat for drought and must work to proof their farms aginst that

I had to go back and read the promisquity story such a disipointment it was all about aids and here I thought it was going to be about people wearing less clothing in a hotter world.

their was one good idea however Ive thought of. if the islands are hollowed out they will float higher above the mantle and overcome sea level rise. also if the material removed were fashioned into huge concrete barges the people could live on floating islands over seamounts ( inspired by the story of the alps getting higher with out the weight of the glaciers)

that brings up the north east seaboards rebound from the weight of the glaciers that melted 12 thousand years ago I wonder if the rising earth here is forcing water farther off shore and raising the sea level? isn't the pacific ocean 5 or 15 feet higher than the atlantic because the north american content is moving west and the atlantic getting wider so the water level there goes down?

Paul Girouard
02-13-2010, 11:06 PM
Due to conditions beyond our control a total recall of the "seafox decoder rings" has been called for. You're on your own with deciphering the seafox postings until major refinements can be researched, a total re-tooling / overhauling of the manufacturing plant can be completed once the "fix" is figured out.

In fact it may be a hopeless case , even with a major overhaul and sending off shore for a more viable work force, the price point seems unobtainable.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause our faithful customer base.

Basically you are on your own. :D

BarnacleGrim
02-14-2010, 03:28 AM
Some weathermen specializes in this.

Weather too hot? Global warming.
Weather too cold? Global warming.
Weather too dry? Global warming.
Weather too wet? Global warming.

The Bigfella
02-14-2010, 03:41 AM
Mate... its the same with any religion. Anywhere the brain can't quite grasp something, someone will attribute it to whatever god or devil they are pushing.

Paul G.
02-14-2010, 04:20 AM
Some weathermen specializes in this.

Weather too hot? Global warming.
Weather too cold? Global warming.
Weather too dry? Global warming.
Weather too wet? Global warming.

ahem... let me paraphrase that

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!

John Smith
02-14-2010, 11:38 AM
I have to admit this whole debate puzzles me.

If belief in climate change encourages us to get off of oil, creates a lot of jobs in this country, and generally improves our quality of life, what's the downside?


Whereas if we don't act as if climate change is a problem, stay dependent on foreign oil, what's the upside?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-14-2010, 11:42 AM
This is most common thing caused by global warming:

Denial of global warming.

cookie
02-14-2010, 11:44 AM
This is most common thing caused by global warming:

Denial of global warming.

:D:D

Paul G.
02-16-2010, 04:18 PM
This is most common thing caused by global warming:

Denial of global warming.


Let me paraphrase that,

This is most common thing caused by Y2K

Denial of Y2K

One more time....

This is most common thing caused by the impending ice age

Denial of the impending ice age


once again for PMJ

This is most common thing caused by the faling sky

Denial of the falling sky






Repeat a vague half truth long enough and loud enougn and people will believe it .......

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 04:36 PM
I have to admit this whole debate puzzles me.

If belief in climate change encourages us to get off of oil, creates a lot of jobs in this country, and generally improves our quality of life, what's the downside?


Whereas if we don't act as if climate change is a problem, stay dependent on foreign oil, what's the upside?
You will NEVER get an honest answer from an AGW supporter. NEVER.

Paul G.
02-16-2010, 04:49 PM
You will NEVER get an honest answer from an AGW supporter. NEVER.

Let me paraphrase THAT!

You will NEVER get an honest answer from an GW supporter. NEVER

Kaa
02-16-2010, 04:53 PM
If belief in climate change encourages us to get off of oil, creates a lot of jobs in this country, and generally improves our quality of life, what's the downside?

ROFL...

So, if there's no downside, why do you still drive an internal-combustion car? Why is your roof not covered in photovoltaic panels? Why is there no wind turbine in your yard?

Kaa

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Hold it right there, hoss. Instead of pointing fingers and calling names (which I probably could have phrased things a little less hot-button, I suppose, sorry), why don't you answer John's questions?

High C
02-16-2010, 04:57 PM
ROFL...

So, if there's no downside, why do you still drive an internal-combustion car? Why is your roof not covered in photovoltaic panels? Why is there no wind turbine in your yard?....

Superb!

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 05:23 PM
(1) I don't, not really. I own one but drive it vanishingly seldom.

(2) Because (a) I rent and (b) don't think photovoltaics are the answer

(3) Because (a) I rent and (b) haven't hacked my way through the regulatory maze for installing a wind turbine.

So. I answered your bitchy little snark with a reasoned response. Could you, either or both, do me the courtesy of answering John's questions with a reasoned response, as well?

High C
02-16-2010, 05:27 PM
Renters are destroying the Earth. Blight, you have a responsibility, nay a duty, to be wealthy enough to purchase electric cars, solar cells and a home to put them on, and wind turbines in the yard. Financial limitations are no excuse.

How's that for snarky?

Kaa
02-16-2010, 05:33 PM
(1) I don't, not really. I own one but drive it vanishingly seldom.

(2) Because (a) I rent and (b) don't think photovoltaics are the answer

(3) Because (a) I rent and (b) haven't hacked my way through the regulatory maze for installing a wind turbine.

So. I answered your bitchy little snark with a reasoned response. Could you, either or both, do me the courtesy of answering John's questions with a reasoned response, as well?

So it was me you were talking to? Oh. Never been called a hoss, but there's a first time for everything, I guess... :D

And, um, what was your question again? Why doesn't the world just switch to a non-carbon economy because there is no downside to such a switch? That's the question, really? You don't know?

Kaa

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 05:40 PM
No, that's not the question, dammit. Don't play coy with me, I know you can read. Go upthread to John Smith's Post 19 and try answering with more than just the minimum of thought. Don't read into it, don't answer what you feel to be the "larger question," don't answer with questions designed to lead things around to where you feel on more solid ground: just answer the questions, as posed. Think ya can do that, big boy? I know ya can, I got faith in ya... hoss ;)

Sam F
02-16-2010, 05:42 PM
Renters are destroying the Earth. Blight, you have a responsibility, nay a duty, to be wealthy enough to purchase electric cars, solar cells and a home to put them on, and wind turbines in the yard. Financial limitations are no excuse.

You forgot living in a luxury apartment - I learned on this very Forum how that too is necessary to be a real environmentalist. ;)

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 05:44 PM
Renters are destroying the Earth. Blight, you have a responsibility, nay a duty, to be wealthy enough to purchase electric cars, solar cells and a home to put them on, and wind turbines in the yard. Financial limitations are no excuse.

How's that for snarky?
Pretty snarky, all things considered. It's got good beat, you can dance to it, I'd give it a 94.

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 05:45 PM
You forgot living in a luxury apartment - I learned on this very Forum how that too is necessary to be a real environmentalist. ;)Luxury? Never heard of it. You have to make more money than I do to allow that word to pass your ears.

High C
02-16-2010, 05:46 PM
Pretty snarky, all things considered. It's got good beat, you can dance to it, I'd give it a 94.

:D :cool:

Kaa
02-16-2010, 05:49 PM
No, that's not the question, dammit. Don't play coy with me, I know you can read. Go upthread to John Smith's Post 19 and try answering with more than just the minimum of thought. Don't read into it, don't answer what you feel to be the "larger question," don't answer with questions designed to lead things around to where you feel on more solid ground: just answer the questions, as posed. Think ya can do that, big boy? I know ya can, I got faith in ya... hoss ;)

LOL.

To use a bit of legalese, the question assumes facts not in evidence.

"Get off oil"? Check, sure.

"Creates a lot of jobs"? Um, that's the wrong yardstick. Lowering productivity creates jobs. Forbidding efficiency creates jobs. You want to create value, not jobs.

"Generally improves our quality of life"? Plain false, if only for opportunity costs reasons.

The direct answer is that there IS a downside, and quite a large one.

Kaa

Captain Blight
02-16-2010, 06:02 PM
A quick spin through Google suggests that the "green" sector is experiencing the nation's fastest area of job growth. The value comes in not having to drink water polluted by acid rain and not having to spend money on erosion control after mountains have been removed from around the coal they cover and not having to breathe air carrying oxides of nitrogen and sulfur created by burning that coal. Fossil fuel eventually is going to go away, and any financial advisor will tell you that the long term is where the money, the value lies. The wind is always going to blow, the sun is (within the countable future) always going to shine, gravity is always going to suck, water always runs downhill, and the moon will always shift the tides. None of this needs to be imported from countries run by despots, keeps our money at home, and doesn't pollute.

In any event: how in the world is creating a lot of jobs now, when the economy is in the cesspit, a bad thing? You want to talk about value, how about the simple value of a job that brings in a paycheck? For a man with a foreclosure looming, for single mom with kids to feed, I'd say the job you so off-handedly dismiss has more value than you can name. Beyond the immediate financial concerns, the value of human dignity cannot be overestimated.

I remain unconvinced. Try again?

WX
02-16-2010, 06:22 PM
(1) (b) don't think photovoltaics are the answer


Works for me and has done so for over 20 years. I have saved thousands of $ in power bills.

Art Read
02-16-2010, 06:31 PM
'Warming' meltdown
Rich Lowry

Climate alarmists conjured a world where nothing was certain but death, taxes and catastrophic global warming. They used this presumed scientific certainty as a bludgeon against the skeptics they deemed "deniers" -- a word meant to have the noxious whiff of Holocaust denial.

All in the cause of hustling the world into a grand carbon-rationing scheme. Any questions about the evidence for the cataclysmic projections, any concerns about the costs and benefits were trumped by that fearsome scientific "consensus," which had "settled" the important questions.

A funny thing happened to this "consensus" on the way to its inevitable triumph, though: Its propagators have been forced to admit fallibility.

For the cause of genuine science, this is a small step forward; for the cause of climate alarmism, it's a giant leap backward. The rush to "save the planet" can't accommodate any doubt, or it loses the panicked momentum necessary for a retooling of modern economic life.

Phil Jones is the director of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, a key "consensus" institution that has recently been caught up in an e-mail scandal revealing a mind-set of global-warming advocacy rather than dispassionate inquiry.

Asked by the BBC what it means when scientists say "the debate on climate change is over," the keeper of the flame sounded chastened. "I don't believe the vast majority of climate scientists think this," Jones said. "This is not my view. There is still much that needs to be undertaken to reduce uncertainties, not just for the future, but for the . . . past as well."

Jones discussed the highly contentious "medieval warming period." If global temperatures were warmer than today back in 800-1300 AD -- about 1,000 years before Henry Ford's assembly lines began spitting out cars -- it suggests that natural factors have a large hand in climate change, a concession that climate alarmists are loath to make.

Jones said we don't know if the warming in this period was global in extent since paleoclimatic records are sketchy. If it was, and if temperatures were higher than now, "then obviously the late 20th century warmth would not be unprecedented."

Jones also noted that there's been no statistically significant warming since 1995, although the cooling since 2002 hasn't been statistically significant, either.

All of this is like a cardinal of the Catholic Church saying the evidence for apostolic succession is still open to debate.

The other main organ of the climate "consensus" is the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It won the Nobel Peace Prize for its 2007 report -- which turns out to have been so riddled with errors it could have been researched on Wikipedia.

It said Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035, warned that global warming could reduce crop yields in Africa by 50 percent by 2020, and linked warming to the increased economic cost of natural disasters -- all nonsense.

These aren't random errors. As former head of the IPCC, the British scientist Robert Watson notes, "The mistakes all appear to have gone in the direction of making it seem like climate change is more serious by overstating the impact."

Too many creators and guardians of the "consensus" desperately wanted to believe in it. As self-proclaimed defenders of science, they should have brushed up on their Enlightenment. "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state," said Voltaire, "but certainty is a ridiculous one."

The latest revelations don't disprove the warming of the 20th century or mean that carbon emissions played no role. But by highlighting the uncertainty of the paleoclimatic data and the models on which alarmism has been built, they constitute a shattering blow to the case for radical, immediate action.

In The Boston Globe, MIT climate scientist Kerry Emanuel marshals a new argument for fighting warming: "We do not have the luxury of waiting for scientific certainty, which will never come." Really? That's not what we were told even a few months ago -- before climate alarmism acknowledged doubt.

Art Read
02-16-2010, 06:33 PM
The Continuing Climate Meltdown
More embarrassments for the U.N. and 'settled' science.

It has been a bad—make that dreadful—few weeks for what used to be called the "settled science" of global warming, and especially for the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that is supposed to be its gold standard.

First it turns out that the Himalayan glaciers are not going to melt anytime soon, notwithstanding dire U.N. predictions. Next came news that an IPCC claim that global warming could destroy 40% of the Amazon was based on a report by an environmental pressure group. Other IPCC sources of scholarly note have included a mountaineering magazine and a student paper.

Since the climategate email story broke in November, the standard defense is that while the scandal may have revealed some all-too-human behavior by a handful of leading climatologists, it made no difference to the underlying science. We think the science is still disputable. But there's no doubt that climategate has spurred at least some reporters to scrutinize the IPCC's headline-grabbing claims in a way they had rarely done previously.

Take the rain forest claim. In its 2007 report, the IPCC wrote that "up to 40% of the Amazonian forests could react drastically to even a slight reduction in precipitation; this means that the tropical vegetation, hydrology and climate system in South America could change very rapidly to another steady state."

But as Jonathan Leake of London's Sunday Times reported last month, those claims were based on a report from the World Wildlife Fund, which in turn had fundamentally misrepresented a study in the journal Nature. The Nature study, Mr. Leake writes, "did not assess rainfall but in fact looked at the impact on the forest of human activity such as logging and burning."

The IPCC has relied on World Wildlife Fund studies regarding the "transformation of natural coastal areas," the "destruction of more mangroves," "glacial lake outbursts causing mudflows and avalanches," changes in the ecosystem of the "Mesoamerican reef," and so on. The Wildlife Fund is a green lobby that believes in global warming, and its "research" reflects its advocacy, not the scientific method.

The IPCC has also cited a study by British climatologist Nigel Arnell claiming that global warming could deplete water resources for as many as 4.5 billion people by the year 2085. But as our Anne Jolis reported in our European edition, the IPCC neglected to include Mr. Arnell's corollary finding, which is that global warming could also increase water resources for as many as six billion people.

The IPCC report made aggressive claims that "extreme weather-related events" had led to "rapidly rising costs." Never mind that the link between global warming and storms like Hurricane Katrina remains tenuous at best. More astonishing (or, maybe, not so astonishing) is that the IPCC again based its assertion on a single study that was not peer-reviewed. In fact, nobody can reliably establish a quantifiable connection between global warming and increased disaster-related costs. In Holland, there's even a minor uproar over the report's claim that 55% of the country is below sea level. It's 26%.

Meanwhile, one of the scientists at the center of the climategate fiasco has called into question other issues that the climate lobby has claimed are indisputable. Phil Jones, who stepped down as head of the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit amid the climate email scandal, told the BBC that the world may well have been warmer during medieval times than it is now.

This raises doubts about how much our current warming is man-made as opposed to merely another of the natural climate shifts that have taken place over the centuries. Mr. Jones also told the BBC there has been no "statistically significant" warming over the past 15 years, though he considers this to be temporary.

All of this matters because the IPCC has been advertised as the last and definitive word on climate science. Its reports are the basis on which Al Gore, President Obama and others have claimed that climate ruin is inevitable unless the world reorganizes its economies with huge new taxes on carbon. Now we are discovering the U.N. reports are sloppy political documents intended to drive the climate lobby's regulatory agenda.

The lesson of climategate and now the IPCC's shoddy sourcing is that the claims of the global warming lobby need far more rigorous scrutiny.

stevedwyer
02-16-2010, 06:47 PM
It's not such an easy answer since many of the manufacturing processes for "green machines",i.e. solar cells, batteries, catalytic converters, carbon fibers and several other materials leave an environmentally unfriendly footprint.

To make matters worse, most every company,(including the worst offenders) pursue a public relations campaign claiming to be green.
And, it is a big money-making enterprise, whether the company's product or service is actually helpful or not.

In my small corner of the world, while I'm waiting for my mound of dirt to become oceanfront property, I simply try to do the best I can.

WX
02-16-2010, 06:55 PM
Really? That's cool. Mind you, what works in NSW might not work at Forty-Five North.

All depends on your sunshine quota. My storage is under a KW and we manage quite well. The fridge, hot water and stove are gas and that is our weak point at present. We spend around $130 bi monthly on gas.
heating is wood fired but it doesn't get as cold as where you live.

WX
02-16-2010, 07:06 PM
Mind you, I'm also vaguely OK with nuclear power. It's just a little tiny bit of really toxic crud to deal with, instead of tons and tons and tons of not-very-toxic crud. At least nuclear waste can be gathered all into one place and disposed of safely, though I'd be a lot happier if it were rocket-boosted into the sun.
Two points there:
1 Nuclear waste has a very long life and requires secure storage for a very long time. I am not convinced this can be done at a long term cost that works out cheaper than the long term costs of coal.
2 As for sending into the Sun, I have one word....Challenger.

Kaa
02-16-2010, 08:59 PM
A quick spin through Google suggests that the "green" sector is experiencing the nation's fastest area of job growth. The value comes in not having to drink water polluted by acid rain and not having to spend money on erosion control after mountains have been removed from around the coal they cover and not having to breathe air carrying oxides of nitrogen and sulfur created by burning that coal. Fossil fuel eventually is going to go away, and any financial advisor will tell you that the long term is where the money, the value lies. The wind is always going to blow, the sun is (within the countable future) always going to shine, gravity is always going to suck, water always runs downhill, and the moon will always shift the tides. None of this needs to be imported from countries run by despots, keeps our money at home, and doesn't pollute.

Dude. I thought you claimed you have a brain.

If I want to read a bunch of touchy-feely greenish bull****, it's not like there's a shortage...


In any event: how in the world is creating a lot of jobs now, when the economy is in the cesspit, a bad thing?

It's trivially easy to create jobs. Here: hire two people. One has to dig holes in the ground, another has to fill them back up. That's two jobs, isn't it? Hell, make it unionized and hire six people to do that!


Beyond the immediate financial concerns, the value of human dignity cannot be overestimated.

That fellow to whom you gave a pointless job, he wants to get paid, doesn't he? Where will the money come from?

And in any case, human dignity does not come through job-creation programs.

Kaa