View Full Version : While the snow flies.
02-02-2010, 03:07 PM
Starting on this tomorrow...5.5 ft long, 250+ lbs dispacement and 22lbs or so for the bare hull. Just something to keep me busy until I can get back to working on my Sailing Scow when the weather warms up. I can still get this up the stairs and out of the basement and I am antsy to build SOMETHING...I feel useless if I don't have curing epoxy somewhere. I have 5 sheets of 5' x 5' 3mm and an 8 x 4' sheet of 5 mm laying around so I might as well use them for something. This should take up 1 sheet of 3mm and the whole sheet of 5mm but I might sub some thicker stuff and save the scraps of the 5mm for something else. I call it Tadpole
02-02-2010, 04:48 PM
Schooner or ketch??
02-02-2010, 04:57 PM
Cat rigged Sprit Sail or Balanced lug of a whopping 18-25 SF I would say... More like a dinghy/tender for all practical purposes. Set up the bow section as a nester and it would come in at 4 ft loa...small enough to fit most 20 footers I would expect.
02-02-2010, 05:14 PM
Why not a pram for that length?
02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
A pram bow would entail raising the bow transom so far up that the buoyancy would shift too far aft. With this design...the CB is at about 31" from the transom, giving a decent amount of leg room to row when the CG is directly above the CB. A slight shift forward would not be so detrimental to this design as it would to a pram either.
02-02-2010, 05:35 PM
02-02-2010, 09:10 PM
awhh.... isn't it cuuuuuuute.
nice little boat.
02-06-2010, 11:11 AM
Minor delay to the start but we're off! Lay out of the panels started today after a couple days of working late and the replacement of a vanished batten. Menards has/had Irwin QuickClamps on sale for $2 ea so I bought 20 of them. They don't clamp very tight but they don't mar things easily either. You can never have too many clamps/cramps.
One thing that really sucks...I have to scarf or butt about a foot to each side piece...they are just shy of 6 ft and the 3 mm I have is only 5 ft long. Such is my life...the niggly little impediments never let up :(
02-08-2010, 04:17 PM
so what happened over the weekend?
03-04-2010, 09:40 PM
This build definitely has the syndrome...or more likely I do. So far I have made two major screw ups and I only have the side panels cut out and butted together. Being as the boat is 5.5 ft long and my panels are only 5x5 I needed to do the side panels in 2 pieces each. Not a problem says I. I copied all my offsets out properly, laid out the larger piece of one side and cut it out, traced it and cut the other side out...I even flipped it to get the mirror properly...no real need as the plywood is BB but anyways. I go and start laying out the little add on...which was supposed to go near the transom...and lo and behold...it is at the bow. Awww....Lemons! So I consider Lemonade...I need the front to be a bit stiffer anyhow so the most severe bend in the side panel is about 2.5 ft aft of the bow...This will help a bit with the stiffness. So I glue my butt block (a 1.5" strip of the same 3mm ply) on one panel one day and on the other panel the next. I swear I mirrored them before gluing...but when I got up...guess what. I made 2 port sides or I have a block on the outside of starboard side. The rest of the day/night went quite the same way. So after getting home from job one and before I go to the next I buffed off the seeped epoxy and glued another butt on the opposite side of one of the panels. Tomorrow I'll grind down the other butt (lord let me get THIS right...Please!) and drive on to the next major F-up. Time to lay out the bottom. I have never had so much problems per foot of boat length in over 10 years of puttering around with boat building!
Here is a pic of the side panels...the one on the bottom curing after receiving it's second block. Yes it is in my living room...It's good to be the King!
03-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Ramping up progress here...went 3D today. Got home...checked forums and email then got to work. Ground off the bad butt block (and got the right one), then laid out the bottom and cut it out. Just finished stitching things together loosely to see how it all fit together...Perfect! Only shed a little blood and got a couple of splinters...small price for a good day. Oh...and the hull weighs 11 lbs as of now.
03-05-2010, 01:20 PM
Looks cute, I share your affliction. While one sheeters don't really perform, per se, they are definitely fun to build and mess about in.
03-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Opinions please...the side panels at the transom have a slight bit of curl inwards from the chine to the shear...what do you think of making the transom edge curve inwards and make it almost vertical as it meets the shear?
As bendy as this ply is...it could be done. A bonus would be a probable stiffening of the side panels in the aft end of the boat.
kinda like this.
03-09-2010, 01:26 PM
why not experiment with a glass bottom viewing port or in-board motor or fishing well, pedal power, etc.? Might find a new 'twist' that could turn into a money making venture.
03-09-2010, 01:48 PM
You DO realize this is a 5 and a 1/2 foot long boat... right? There is barely enough room for a fat A$$ like me... let alone an inboard motor or a hole in the bottom to look through my legs through. THAT would be a sight...me with my high windage appendages sticking up in the air looking down through the bottom of my boat...at where I will likely be resting moments later!
03-09-2010, 05:43 PM
If it was easy, there wouldn't be any potential money making opportunity in it!
03-22-2010, 09:48 AM
Whew!...I really have to work faster...finding this thread took a while! Finally started with the goop. Filleted one side this morning (I DID manage to get the transom panel cut out and wired in between the last update and this one). I'll let it firm up and tack then lay in the glass. This is a bit different than my usual method of doing it all at once but I want the fillets to be a bit nicer than they usually are. I find that when I put the glass on top and wet it out they tend to get a little lumpy and ugly. I want to try it this way to see if I can get them neater.
03-22-2010, 10:56 AM
For those who are new to building with stitch and glue...you stitch the panels together with wire or wire ties, lay in a fillet of thickened epoxy and then layer strips of glass cloth on top to spread the load trying to separate the panels over a larger area. The glass strips can be prefabricated tape or you can make your own. Why you would want to make your own is a matter of interest though. With prefabricated tapes the edges are kind of sewn or selvaged to keep them from fraying. This is OK but it leaves a ridge that you might wish to grind off along both edges and then you have to re-coat to cover the exposed glass edges...it is a pain in the glass sometimes. It is often difficult to get the tape to lay properly because the edges prevent the cloth from distorting and it buckles...requiring darts and possibly more grinding.
You can make your own strips from glass cloth but how to cut it without it going all to pieces and fraying on you and how to cut it straight. Well there is an easy way to do it. You will end up with strips that are the length of the width of your bulk cloth and at a width you decide.
How do you cut it straight though? The trick is to pull a thread from the edge of your cloth. Decide on the width of the strip you want to make and measure it along the long edge of your cloth. Firmly grasp the thread nearest your measurement and have someone hold the other side of the cloth and slowly withdraw the thread. It will leave a clear line in the cloth that you can carefully cut with a pair of scissors. You should do a sacrificial pull to get an even edge then start making your strips. Lay the cloth on a surface free from things that might make it catch and fray...like the kitchen floor or a smooth table top. Cut your strips and drape them out of the way...handle them as little as possible and make sure your hands or gloves aren't sticky with epoxy as this will surely start pulling threads out and make a mess. When laying the cloth strips over the fillets...butting them together or very slight overlap will suffice. There is sufficient strength added that you don't need to overlap more than a thread or so.
03-22-2010, 12:15 PM
I was going to second the notion of tumblehome curving the transom - maybe even more than the presented curve.
Too late it looks like.
03-22-2010, 01:25 PM
Firm enough and tacky so time to lay in the glass strips:
Being careful to set the middle into the fillet...gradually put them along the length. You might get a few fliers...just set them aside. I notched the cloth around the bottom of the butt block but notice I left enough room to fillet properly...and enough on top for the Inwales.
Overlap in the corners helps with the strength and tying things together.
Once the cloth is down...start wetting it out until it is clear. Don't skimp on the epoxy here...make sure there are no white spots. The trick is to have enough epoxy on the brush ( I use cheap chip brushes) to flow the epoxy without it dragging the cloth or pulling threads. This means you have to load the brush enough and often to keep it from getting sticky enough to distort the cloth or pull threads. Daub the epoxy into the cloth and gently mush it around...working it to the edge of the cloth and beyond a bit.
So I am done for today...I'll do the other side tomorrow when things have set.
03-22-2010, 01:26 PM
I was going to second the notion of tumblehome curving the transom - maybe even more than the presented curve.
Too late it looks like.
Ummm...Yep! Its set in epoxy now! But it is an option for someone else.
03-22-2010, 01:41 PM
One mistake I will acknowledge...I put the holes for the ties too far from the edge. You may notice the slight irregularities in the fillets about every 8-10"...and it even shows up in the glass a bit too. I was worried about tearing out the 3mm but with the ties only 3/32" wide...they are too soft and fragile to damage the wood. I could have gone in only 1/8" from the edge and been fine. Live and learn...it is the first time I have used such small ties to stitch a boat together.
03-23-2010, 09:38 AM
Started on the other side today. Almost twisted up...was in such a hurry I mixed up the goo before masking off the fillet lines. Had to chuck the stuff into the freezer and lay out the tape. I was going to pick up a roll of 1" but forgot so I was stuck using the 2" again and obviously it didn't cut/peel very well. Anyways...I was going to tell you that yesterday I used a total of 21 teaspoons of epoxy to fillet and tape. Today I had a bit left over from the 9 used for the filleting (I think I used a bit more filler/thickener) so back into the freezer it goes. I have a 50/50 chance it will still be usable tomorrow.
03-23-2010, 05:58 PM
Cute little boat. But . . . when do you decide that the fumes have vented enough from your living room to be safe (and how are you doing that?)? Personally, I enjoy taking off my organic vapor respirator as soon as I can - sleeping in it (etc), inside my house, seems like it would be uncomfortable!
Looking forward to seeing the finished product - and your Lake Scow!
03-23-2010, 10:00 PM
Fumes from epoxy? I can barely smell it but yes... I do crack the window a bit right near it. I use a 2:1 mix from Progressive epoxy and it barely has any smell and I have never had any problems with it DOING anything to me. But that just might be my body's system too...my son who has a mild case of asthma broke into a rash the first time it got on his skin...needless to say he doesn't help me out any more when the epoxy time comes. OOps...gotta go to work...later.
03-24-2010, 12:17 AM
Fumes from epoxy? I can barely smell it . . .
Err, what difference would that make? Lots of deadly vapors don't smell at all.
MSDS's . . . .
And, at least some of these people aren't just talking out their a**:
Nitrile gloves, respirators and generous ventilation are for me - I want to keep building boats for a long time. Not to mention that I don't need any more random chemicals setting up shop in my brain!
Sorry to derail your thread!
03-30-2010, 03:03 PM
76 degrees and BEAUTIFUL...I'm gonna pay for it tonight but I had to stay up and enjoy. Glued on one side of the inwale spacers (3/4" x 1 1/4" x 1/4") 2 3/4" spacing between. Took 13 all told with allowance for knees and breasthook. Moved to the front porch for a while as the next 3 days are supposed to be 70-80 degrees.
03-30-2010, 06:03 PM
Fine looking craft! Reminds me of my youth when I built a 10' sailboat in the bedroom of my apartment. (I moved the bed into the living room.) Married life has banished me to the basement or garage.
03-30-2010, 06:11 PM
love zip ties for s&g, been finding them by the big bagfull at the dollar store.
04-01-2010, 11:25 AM
I banished the wife...Period! I is King of the Casa and if I want to trash the place...I gotta clean it up :( ...but only when I wanna!
Yes Sir...those wire ties are great. With this small boat I used 1/6" x 3 1/2" ties...almost as small of a hole as wire would use...
Did up the other side yesterday...
And I started on making the frame. I think it will be the only one I will need...
A close up of the frame joint...
I also started framing the transom... It took some shaping to get it to fit the shape of the fillet...hence the grinder with the flap disk in the first frame picture. Very easy to remove only what you need and easy to maneuver...like a paint brush.
I don't have clamps deep enough to get to it so I through screwed from outside...The pads ensure I only have little holes to fill instead of big dents AND little holes...Saved me from spitting the edge of the ply too (like one of the pads)
04-06-2010, 02:16 PM
Ok...now that I have the wale strip bending dilemma sorted out (working on the real thing...test strip above)...on to the knees. I picked up a piece of mahogany...probably Meranti or Luan. It is a 4' 1x8" and weighs about 1/3 of the rest of the stock available...2 lbs maybe? I will be cutting the transom knees and other bits and pieces from it. I hope they will get more stock in so I can get something similar for a seat...otherwise I'll go for cedar. I am still looking at getting this in at under 25 lbs if I can...here's hoping!
04-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Well...this one went 50/50...one had too much grain run out and cracked across the outside face. I left it to dry but it doesn't have the shape I need. The curve is too much at the cracked area and the ends are too straight. I might just say Eff it and keep the test strip as one side and the other darker one as the other. I'll go check to see if there are anymore dark ones left at the store before gluing anything. The two problems I have with the test strip is that 1. it is significantly lighter than the other side and 2. It has slightly rounded corners on one side...go figure that that is the side that would have to be against the ply whereas the other strip has the rounded edges outside where they belong. Charlie Brown Syndrome strikes again...:( :mad: :(
04-10-2010, 11:39 AM
Thinner strips...but wider. Found 2 that were consecutive slices so the grain is about as bookmatched as possible. Soaked in hot water for an hour...bent really well and evenly...so hopefully will work out. I have 8 others to choose from so these will be the outside layer of a 2 layer lamination. That will give me a 3/8" outwale rather than 1/4"...bigger is better I guess.
I think I should have done it this way to start with...
04-10-2010, 11:44 AM
It is such a fat short boat. What could you use it for?
04-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Tender or kids boat. It will float 200+ lbs at DWL... more if you want to push it. It would be a nice light tender for a small sailing Yacht in the 20-28 ft range...one that doesn't have a whole lot of room for something bigger. Could also be used as a bed or crib...although I did a 75% version for a smaller crib too. Something fun to play with and keep me occupied while the snow flew...although it took longer than I expected to build... mostly to procrastination and working 2 jobs to the tune of 7 days a week @ 9-14 hours/day.
A+ is that it is very cheap to make...less than $100 so far...even with my mistakes. It uses a lot of skills needed for boats 5-10 times it's size so it would be a good practice boat that wouldn't break the bank to give to some kid while honing the building skills. Simple pine strips could be subbed for the Mahogany at a lesser cost and you could probably finish it for $150 total in supplies. Not too bad a price to pay for practical experience in a lot of various skills...especially in something that is so easily handled. A lot of people have a kind of fascination with the ultimate small too... don't ask me why but I am one of those.
04-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Well...as you saw above...the outer layer went well. The inner layer not so well. I let is soak too long and it got stuck in the tube. It won't come out despite all I have tried so I tried to cut it out lengthwise. Broke the blade of my jig saw and gave up in disgust. Today I picked up new blades and will essay to extricate my $5.00 worth of wood from the $20 tubing...to the destruction of the tubing. Charlie Brown Syndrome strikes again. I will get some 3" tubing and try again.
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