Fast plywood kayak

[Hans Lassen]

hi everybody,
have been absent for a time due to my having moved to southern Germany. Rivers + lakes for me now rather than the open sea. So I'm looking for a REALLY fast kayak to build. Plywood / stitch+glue rather than strip. Doesn't have to have much load capacity; needs to be fast and a little more stable than a racing kayak. Any info welcome. Searched the 'search' thingy but have not found what I'm looking for. (Although I meight of course have overlokked things redface.gif )
greetings
Hans

[JimD]

How about the Seguin, available right here at the WB store? 21 inch beam, fast and slim, build in plywood. Plans include retractable skeg. Looks nice.

[Popeye]

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/smhydro/draggifs/surfdrag.gif faster and faster we go (http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/kayakpro/kayakgrid.htm#waveanch)

[stef]

I hope you know that fast is a relative term!! smile.gif with various trade offs.

I would offer the following url as one of many alternatives which are sure to follow: one of many kayaks (http://webpages.charter.net/dkuperstein/stock.html)

Stef

ps. waiting for the ok from swmbo to start construction. Her car is in the boat shed ;) !!

[George Roberts]

Hans Lassen ---

Fast is really a poor term to use.

Power output is necessary for speed. Below 4.5 knots the power output is reasonable. Above 4.5 knots the power output is unreasonable.

You will be a happy paddler below 4.5 knots. You will be an unhappy padler above 4.5 knots.

[KenC]

Hans Friedel (http://www.friedeldesign.se/) has designs for both strip and S&G. You might find something you like there.

[brian.cunningham]

Looks like a CLC Pax 20 (http://www.clcboats.com/boats/pax18-20.php/cart_id=addadfd7d96a05b1260d12a25f78fde0/) will fit your bill.
http://www.clcboats.com/images/boats/pax20-7_s.jpg
http://www.clcboats.com/images/boats/pax20-8s.jpg

[George Jung]

Take a look at one of the other threads (currently at the top of the directory) "What kayak do you paddle?" Lots of nice boats popping up on that. The One Oceans design looks like a very nice yak, and I've read lots of good comments on it. The S and G Night Heron from Guillemot also sounds like it would fit the bill. I really like the Hans Freidel boats; the Raven looks fast, and at least one has been built/talked about on the kayakforum.
I built a Chesapeake LT17; it's a nice boat, but I believe bigger/slower than what you are looking for.

[George Jung]

One other comment: what kind of weather conditions are you looking at paddling in? Flat water, or is rough water a possibility? Many of the 'fast boats you are looking at haven't received good reviews in rough conditions. I believe the Pax fits into that catetgory. Also, what length/size boat you interested in? Much experience paddling?

[LeeG]

"fast" and a lot more stable than a racing kayak are kind of contradictory.
I have to weigh in on the Paxs,,they've got a lot of handling compromises in achieving "fast" that training and technique could compensate for in more forgiving designs that could be made lighter.
I built the very first Pax20 and there wasn't a racer within 100miles of it's development. Wave piercing hull shapes may work in compound curves but in four panels (esp. with bow transom) it's got problems.
What George is saying about speed/output is right on.
For plans you're probably going to be looking at four panels,,which isn't the fastest way to go but I've heard good things about One Ocean Kayaks Cirrus,,Shearwater Merganser is a good design.

[Hans Lassen]

Thanks a LOT for the swift replies and urls offered. Interesting reading, projects start to develop in my head already.
As to your caveats and questions:
Yes, I am an experienced paddler; have been paddling since the age of 11. was into competitive lightweight rowing from 13 to 18 when I left school, did white water kayaking for another 15 years. Moved from the mountains to the seashore, took up sea kayaking. Paddle a Valley Pintail, go for extended trips between the islands on North Sea and Baltic shore.
'Fast': I am looking for a boat to take out on the river in the evening. Must carry myself, no gear. Should be quick/responsive in taking up speed, should have a lot of 'carry' (prolonged movement?). In other words: I want to be able to go fast in order to experience the quietness of the river and the fluency of the movement, it's simply more fun to glide through the water than having to break through it (hope you understand what I mean). I don't want to have to learn again to survive in (on!) a racing kayak, I'm simply too old for that :D . They're awfully narrow and tippy. The Pax seems to be what I want. Shall have to look at the plans. The building process from scratch is a large part of the fun, isn't it? Ian Oughtred has a sketch of an obviously fast kayak in his prospect of last year, wonder if the plans are available already?
The abovementioned thread is a treat, too, thanks Nels!

[Hans Lassen]

What I really wanted to find, something like this, buildable in plywood (There's the money thing, too - the INUK comes at 1725 punds Sterling in carbon...):

The INUK by Kirton Kayaks (UK), 550 x 50 cm; seems to fit the bill;

http://www.knoydart.co.uk/graphics/upload/inuk.jpg

and the NARWHALE (540 x 60 cm) by Valley Kayaks (UK), haven't found anything pic-like yet. Found the drawing on Knoydart's homepage: seems pretty fast, too.
http://www.knoydart.co.uk/graphics/upload/narwhale.jpg

For comparison, my PINTAIL (523 x 54 cm):

http://www.knoydart.co.uk/graphics/upload/pintail.jpg

Will ask for study plans of the pax 20, though. And would like to contact LeeG, may I?

Hans
Hans

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Hans,
If light weight and low wetted area are your desire nothing comes close to Chris Kulczycki's "Yare". 16' 2" X 24". Less than 30 lbs. without deck hardware. The entire boat is made from 2 sheets of 3mm plywood,2 liters of epoxy,15 meters of 3" 'glass tape and 2-5 meter sheer clamps.
It is not a perfect kayak. It has very low volume and needs a higher front deck if your feet are big. It is inclined to weathervane. The stem is very fine and slices thru' the water but it digs into big waves.
It is a bit like liederkranz. Some love it and some hate it.
CLC doesn't sell the plans any more but they are in Kulczycki's book "The Kayak Shop".
One other caution. The plywood in "Yare" is very thin and highly stressed. Only a quality plywood like Bruynzeel should be used.
Charlie

[JimD]

First kayak I built was the Yare. I found it cramped and a little unstable as its prone to laying on one side or the other when you don't intend it to, or at least mine turned out that way. Hard to get a good hull shape when building her, too.

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

Just a note. Yare was an early design and some things weren't real explicit in the plans/instructions. Real hard to get the pieces out of the plywood unless you were real careful to orient them just so. Ditto the comment about the wood being stressed! That said I'm looking fwd to putting mine in the water soon.

Next up will be a Chesapeake 17 LT...