The Federalist Papers.....

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  • paladin
    Senior Senior Member
    • Dec 2000
    • 26475

    The Federalist Papers.....

    As evidenced by the Federalists Papers,* most of the founders wanted America to be a democracy. But, the fears of some, that democracy would turn into mob rule caused them to ultimately create a representative republic which, having some aspects of democracy, was the next best thing.

    Democracy is a political system in which the true will of the majority of the governed becomes the supreme law of the land.

    This sounds great, until we realize it means that 50.1 % of the population decides how the other 49.9 % live. Thomas Jefferson, for one, detested democracy for this reason, because it invariably devolved into tyrannical rule and subjugation of individual freedoms of the few by the many. It also negates the concept of individual rights, replacing it with the slippery idea of government-supplied 'privileges' in favor of the "common good". The word 'democracy' is not mentioned anywhere in the Declaration of Independence or US Constitution.

    A constitutional republic, on the other hand, recognizes that rights are inalienable (i.e., they come from God and not Man) and thus cannot be revoked save by due process of law. For example, the US constitution did not create our rights but rather affirmed them. In a republic, the primary purpose of government is to protect the inalienable rights of life, liberty and property for its citizens.

    These men established an enlightened form of government whose powers were narrowly defined. Government was specifically limited to a handful of finite responsibilities. This was to prohibit those with power from immediately beginning to expand upon it and thus encroach on individual freedom. The Founders were so concerned that power would be usurped from the States (and by the extension, from the people themselves), that they drafted the first ten amendments (AKA Bill of Rights) to specify the unalterable rights never to be modified or limited by any future government of the Republic. Recent history will demonstrate whether this still holds true.

    Unfortunately, the gradual transformation of our nation from a constitutional republic to that of a simple majority democracy has led many Americans to believe it was "meant to be that way". This is no doubt why the Founders specifically required that the President swear a solemn oath "to protect and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign or domestic." It was, and continues to be, the single most important responsibility of any US leader.

    *Definition:
    The Federalist Papers were a series of newspaper essays written by the authors of the constitution, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. They wrote these pieces in an effort to explain the how and why of the Constitution to enable the general publics understanding and thus facilitate its ratification. The Federalist Papers are in a sense an “instruction manual” written by the authors of the Constitution.
    Wakan Tanka Kici Un
    ..a bad day sailing is a heckuva lot better than the best day at work.....
    Fighting Illegal immigration since 1492....
    Live your life so that whenever you lose, you're ahead."
    "If you live life right, death is a joke as far as fear is concerned."
  • goforbroke
    Junior Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 21

    #2
    Re: The Federalist Papers.....

    Good post, we need to be reminded often.

    Comment

    • johngsandusky
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2003
      • 5570

      #3
      Re: The Federalist Papers.....

      But how is it boat related?
      Though I believe a load of lubbers do pass boating laws, don't they.

      Comment

      • johngsandusky
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2003
        • 5570

        #4
        Re: The Federalist Papers.....

        OOPs, I slipped into the Bilge. Never mind.....

        Comment

        • paladin
          Senior Senior Member
          • Dec 2000
          • 26475

          #5
          Re: The Federalist Papers.....

          John...this is the BILGE. No boat related stuff.
          Wakan Tanka Kici Un
          ..a bad day sailing is a heckuva lot better than the best day at work.....
          Fighting Illegal immigration since 1492....
          Live your life so that whenever you lose, you're ahead."
          "If you live life right, death is a joke as far as fear is concerned."

          Comment

          • Pugwash
            Banned
            • Sep 2008
            • 2419

            #6
            Re: The Federalist Papers.....

            A constitutional republic, on the other hand, recognizes that rights are inalienable (i.e., they come from God and not Man) and thus cannot be revoked save by due process of law.
            As usual, George has some thing to say about "god given" rights.....

            Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


            Comment

            • jerryrichter
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2006
              • 189

              #7
              Re: The Federalist Papers.....

              Can you imagine a country governed by the results of daily polls?

              Comment

              • Cuyahoga Chuck
                # 7727
                • Dec 2003
                • 12984

                #8
                Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                Not so fast.
                My history is a little foggy but I do remember that the Founders and the authors of the Federalist Papers where not all of a common mind on every subject. When it came down to producing a constitution there were a lot of differences that had to be ironed out and what came out in the end was the product of horse-trading and other types of good ol' fashioned politicing.
                One signer, Madison, wanted a complete separation of church and state at every level. He couldn't get it. Some states were joined at the hip with specific religions and those religions weren't going to let their dominance slip away. Madison was smart enough to know that some constitution was better than no constitution so he let his ideal slip away and signed the original constitution which only forbad the federal government from supporting a state religion.
                So the idea that then US Constitution is some kind of immutable document that has come down to us from on high is not supported by history. The founders did the best they could under the circumstances. There were a lot of divisions, there were factions and nobody got everything they wanted. The US Constitution is the result of a long and tortuous process of old fashioned politics. The folks involved were, personally, more gentlemanly than their modern counterparts but they were no less politicians. The idea that the original constitution was somehow pure and that modern practice has somehow corrupted it is fodder for loonies like Ron Paul. We can't live in the 18th century and none of the founders would have expected us to.
                My text can be attributed to me. What is the attribution to the contents of posting #1?

                Comment

                • Osborne Russell
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 27154

                  #9
                  Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                  Originally posted by paladin
                  This sounds great, until we realize it means that 50.1 % of the population decides how the other 49.9 % live.
                  That's very well put. What would develop is a determination never to be in the minority, which, to make a long story short, develops into mob rule. Then, who rules the mob? What starts out as a more or less democratic situation, becomes less democratic every minute; and the most well-intentioned people are the last to realize that self-rule is gone. They keep thinking spontaneous human nature will keep things on an even keel.

                  That's the schizo element in modern Repubs. They believe (they say) in self-restraint, and want a government based on self-restraint, which is an oxymoron.
                  A democratic republic, in contrast to a democracy, has as its 2d most fundamental premise (1st is the inalienability of certain rights) the necessity of restricting freedom by physical force.

                  "It is to protect these rights that governments are instituted among men . . ."

                  . . . and that doesn't mean to protect them from nature or space aliens. It means to protect them from the rabble.

                  As evidenced by the Federalists Papers,* most of the founders wanted America to be a democracy.
                  I don't know about that. I think what they wanted wasn't an "America" at all, in the sense of a nation. They wanted a confederacy of the states, which is what they set up originally, and it didn't work. So the question became, how much more power would the federal government have. The federalists wanted more, the anti-federalists wanted less. The anti-federalists were sticking up for the rights of their states, not of the people of "America" in general. For example, Patrick Henry, a staunch anti-federalist, wasn't advocating a democracy, in order that people in New England could have a say in how things were run in Virginia.
                  Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf.

                  Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny (2017)​

                  Comment

                  • Bruce Taylor
                    Eardstapa
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 9225

                    #10
                    Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                    Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck
                    My text can be attributed to me. What is the attribution to the contents of posting #1?
                    They stood strongly together and focused on other democracys that have failed and also concentrated on their weaknesses pointing them out to the disbeleivers and trying to change those mistakes so the United States didn't fail. Benjamen Franklin used his printing press and his developed writing skills to express and promote his ideas. He also belonged to the Junto - a group of friends who met, debated, discussed, and traded information.


                    It's a Wiki, and can be edited by anyone.

                    Comment

                    • stevebaby
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 4509

                      #11
                      Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                      The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were both "constitutional republics".
                      For those who've come across the seas
                      We've boundless plains to share;

                      I refer you to the reply given in the matter of Arkell v. Pressdram.

                      Comment

                      • Cuyahoga Chuck
                        # 7727
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 12984

                        #12
                        Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                        Originally posted by stevebaby
                        The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were both "constitutional republics".
                        I remember a political science professor saying,"the Soviet constitution is the most democratic thing you ever read but they don't adhere to any of it".
                        I never bothered to look at it and for good reason. It was supposedly a massive document requiring 200-300 pages.

                        Comment

                        • stevebaby
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 4509

                          #13
                          Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                          The Soviets were Federalists too.

                          Article 70. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is an integral, federal, multinational state formed on the principle of socialist federalism as a result of the free self-determination of nations and the voluntary association of equal Soviet Socialist Republics.
                          For those who've come across the seas
                          We've boundless plains to share;

                          I refer you to the reply given in the matter of Arkell v. Pressdram.

                          Comment

                          • stevebaby
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 4509

                            #14
                            Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                            Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck
                            I remember a political science professor saying,"the Soviet constitution is the most democratic thing you ever read but they don't adhere to any of it".
                            I never bothered to look at it and for good reason. It was supposedly a massive document requiring 200-300 pages.
                            I remember being told pretty much the same thing,almost word for word.
                            Quite true.
                            For those who've come across the seas
                            We've boundless plains to share;

                            I refer you to the reply given in the matter of Arkell v. Pressdram.

                            Comment

                            • BarnacleGrim
                              Seafaring Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 2295

                              #15
                              Re: The Federalist Papers.....

                              Also keep in mind that the Soviet and Nazi German constitutions were made by and after the thugs took power. The American constitution was written beforethe thugs took power.
                              1947 Nordic Folkboat "Nina"

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