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Rick-Mi
01-26-2010, 02:04 PM
Oh my gosh, I was just let in on what all the hoopla is about. There have been some rumblings and controversy about a Super Bowl ad featuring Tim Tebow, but I didn't know what it was or give it much thought.....until now.

It turns out Tim's mother Pam Tebow had problems with a pregnancy in 1987 after getting sick during a mission trip to the Philippines. Pam ignored a recommendation by doctors to abort her child and gave birth to Tim, who went on to help the Florida Gators win two BCS championships and earned the 2007 Heisman Trophy. Oh my gosh is this going to be a POWERFUL pro life ad aired to the largest audience in television!

LeeG
01-26-2010, 02:12 PM
Oh my gosh!

Paul Pless
01-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Maybe Planned Parenthood should produce a companion advertisement...


Ted Bundy was born Theodore Robert Cowell at the Elizabeth Lund Home For Unwed Mothers in Burlington, Vermont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington,_Vermont), to Eleanor Louise Cowell.

LeeG
01-26-2010, 02:25 PM
Just think of the advertising campaigns that could utilize sloppy associative reasoning.

oh, right.

rbgarr
01-26-2010, 02:30 PM
I agree that it should have been her choice... as it indeed was.

Rick-Mi
01-26-2010, 02:49 PM
It's sad, but not difficult to understand why the far left crowd is seething over this one. One of the proudest mothers in America along side her famous son telling the world how happy they are for choosing life is going to save a LOT of babies in one thirty second spot.....

Harbormaster
01-26-2010, 03:11 PM
It's interesting - the doctors that counseled her to have an abortion were in the Philippines, I wonder what American doctors might have said. I suspect that there's quite a bit more to the story, since abortion is illegal in the Philippines. In the Philippines she didn't have a legal choice.

paladin
01-26-2010, 03:21 PM
It may be illegal to have an abortion in the philippines but it's done every day in the hospitals.

rbgarr
01-26-2010, 03:35 PM
A link to "seething" : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523581,00.html

Rick-Mi
01-26-2010, 03:36 PM
Ooohh! Ooohh!! I've always wanted to see 'seething'.... but I don't know where to find it... haven't seen any 'seething' on this topic at all, just a couple of minor paragraphs. Is THAT 'seething'? :) Where can I find those 'seething far left' folks you're talking about? Got a link? :):):)

Actually Norman, I wasn't referring to anyone in the bilge seething over the impact of this upcoming ad. A coalition of the "NOW crowd" has been making a fuss and pressuring CBS in an attempt to cancel the airing of the commercial. I was actually thinking of them when mentioning "seething". Perhaps I should have been more specific about that.

Far left folks? You don't have to look far in the bilge or outside a mirror to see that Norman. What I find interesting is a high percentage of liberals who favor things like socialized medicine, a single payer system, heavy progressive income taxes and an ever increasing nanny state view themselves as moderates. :confused: :p

Rick-Mi
01-26-2010, 03:38 PM
A link to "seething" : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523581,00.html


George Tiller was a murderer plain and simple. Looks like he reaped what he sowed.

Rick-Mi
01-26-2010, 04:03 PM
George Tiller was a murderer plain and simple. Looks like he reaped what he sowed.




So, you endorse the murder of doctors that provide abortions?

Killed any, yourself?



Norman, your reading comprehension has really been suffering lately. :eek:

rbgarr
01-26-2010, 04:03 PM
What's a 'plain and simple' murder?? Roeder murdered Tiller out of a seething hatred of someone who performed legal abortions for women who chose to do so knowing he had been shot before, thus aware of the danger they may have run. It wasn't a spur of the moment random act by Roeder.

My problem with the anti-freedom-of-choice people is that they are mostly men trying to enforce their choices on women. If the men contracted to take full and complete responsibility for children borne to those women prevented from choosing abortion I'd be more impressed with their position. Likewise if abortion were to made illegal, then both the man and woman who might seek one would be arrested. What's good for the goose....

ljb5
01-26-2010, 05:01 PM
One of the proudest mothers in America along side her famous son telling the world how happy they are for choosing life is going to save a LOT of babies in one thirty second spot.....

I see nothing wrong with the Tebow family sharing their story... I just hope it doesn't cross the line into advocating government policy.

It's one thing to say, "I'm glad I decided not to have an abortion." It's quite another to say, "I want the government to use its power to prevent you from having one."

I hope you can see the difference.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-26-2010, 05:02 PM
George Tiller was a murderer plain and simple. Looks like he reaped what he sowed.

Well, if a case involving a premeditated murder during a Sunday morning religious service doesn't involve someone who was "seething" I don't know what would.
You gotta' give those seethers a wide berth.
Ya' think Kansas church attendence fell off much after Roeders performance?

Paul Pless
01-26-2010, 05:03 PM
> http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Very well put ljb5.

hokiefan
01-26-2010, 06:50 PM
I have to agree with Paul that ljb5 stated that very well. Our first daughter was stillborn and after living through that experience I can't imagine chosing to have an abortion. But, other people have different lives and circumstances and it may be the right decision for them for reasons I don't have to understand or like.

Cheers,

Bobby

peb
01-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Ooohh! Ooohh!! I've always wanted to see 'seething'.... but I don't know where to find it... haven't seen any 'seething' on this topic at all, just a couple of minor paragraphs. Is THAT 'seething'? :) Where can I find those 'seething far left' folks you're talking about? Got a link? :):):)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2612635220100126

It was on the first article I found. I would classigy petitioning CBS and the NFL to pull the ad as 'seething'.

Harry Miller
01-27-2010, 08:03 AM
Rick do you realize that every piece of wood you cut up and burn in your fireplace is an aborted rocking horse?

LeeG
01-27-2010, 02:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

bobbys
01-27-2010, 02:45 PM
I would have thought the controversy would be about Pete Townsend playing at the Superbowl after his looking up child pornography on the internet.

Guess there's no problem with that.

After all better keep real bad people like Rush outta the NFL..

Better keep these pro lifers quiet by intimidation.
After all 50 million dead babies is big business.

bamamick
01-27-2010, 07:19 PM
Tim is committed to his ideals and he is always going to take a public stand as long as he is afforded a forum to do so. He sees this as a part of his mission. He will no doubt lose some fans because of this ad, but he is what he is.

I have heard for many years that he was a self-aggrandizing young man who was basically a non-stop publicity stunt, but I have to tell you that I have met people who have met him and have lived around the Tebow 'legend' for five years now (Alabama was Tebow's second choice as a senior in high school) and I have to tell you that it seems to me that people who write such things are probably just annoyed that he is just the opposite. He is what he presents himself to be. You can disagree with his stand on abortion rights for women, but I respect a young guy who is so deeply principled even if I don't always agree with him on everything.

Mickey Lake

LeeG
01-30-2010, 11:11 AM
who said, "kick me Jesus through the goal post of life"? just wondering

cbcc
01-30-2010, 11:18 AM
Ooohh! Ooohh!! I've always wanted to see 'seething'.... but I don't know where to find it... haven't seen any 'seething' on this topic at all, just a couple of minor paragraphs. Is THAT 'seething'? :) Where can I find those 'seething far left' folks you're talking about? Got a link? :):):)


You're a very unhappy person aren't you?

Garret
01-30-2010, 11:38 AM
I just don't get the "let's kill the abortionists" concept. You say a guy is bad because he "murders" - then you fix the problem by murdering?

2 wrongs (if the doctor is wrong) make a right? Since when?

Oh right - I'm trying to apply logic again, my bad....

As to the Tebow ad, it'll be the first ad ever aired that glossed over important details, right? :eek: The joys of the first amendment. Now if it were followed up by an ad that pointed out the inconsistencies, I'd be happier.

Finally, remember that this is a country where it's OK to show people getting blasted to gory bits by machine guns (even to where the blaster gets elected as a governor), but an inadvertent exposure of a woman's breast causes outrage & a fine of ~ 600,000.

Damn, there goes that logic thing again!

LeeG
01-30-2010, 11:42 AM
found it,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XePepJvvcjY

Paul Pless
01-30-2010, 11:44 AM
I just don't get the "let's kill the abortionists" concept. Of course you don't get it. All but the most radical pro lifers find even the suggestion of it repulsive.

Garret
01-30-2010, 11:58 AM
Of course you don't get it. All but the most radical pro lifers find even the suggestion of it repulsive.

Irony: someone who is self-labeled as "pro-life" sees murder as OK. What a strange world we live in.

Ian McColgin
01-30-2010, 12:22 PM
Mrs Tebow may or may not have been advised to have an abortion, but finding the Philippine doc who said so may be hard. In the Philippines, abortion is illegal. Period. No exceptions like rape, health and safety. Jail.

Perhaps Mrs Tebow advised herself.

What remains to be litigated is whether an ad that is factually false can be aired.

Rick-Mi
01-30-2010, 12:24 PM
I just don't get the "let's kill the abortionists" concept. You say a guy is bad because he "murders" - then you fix the problem by murdering?

2 wrongs (if the doctor is wrong) make a right? Since when?


I don't know anyone who supports murder as a solution to our infanticide problem.

Paul Pless
01-30-2010, 12:33 PM
What remains to be litigated is whether an ad that is factually false can be aired.you are a funny man

Rick-Mi
01-30-2010, 12:50 PM
What remains to be litigated is whether an ad that is factually false can be aired.


Ah, the left wing solution to a courageous mother and her famous son's free speech sharing a powerful account of her decision to chose life; censorship via the courts. How typical......

Looks like more and more opponents of the right to life are seething as this moves forward. Just wait until the ad airs! This spot could be the talk of the Super Bowl commercial battles!!!

Paul Pless
01-30-2010, 01:01 PM
Thank you Donn, I was almost wooed by that 'roster of famous' clients.
roster of famous clients (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/30/gloria-allreds-women-rach_n_373480.html)

LeeG
01-30-2010, 01:03 PM
I don't know anyone who supports murder as a solution to our infanticide problem.

and don't forget the spermicide problem!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Rick-Mi
01-30-2010, 01:13 PM
I see nothing wrong with the Tebow family sharing their story... I just hope it doesn't cross the line into advocating government policy.

It's nice that you approve of the Tebow's right to free speech. .



It's one thing to say, "I'm glad I decided not to have an abortion." It's quite another to say, "I want the government to use its power to prevent you from having one."

I hope you can see the difference.

Yes, I do understand what you are saying and couldn't disagree more. Just because a handful of judges in black robes decide to deny the right to life doesn't make it justified any more than blacks who were not considered a person at one time could be legally "owned".

I'm certainly not alone as the pro life movement is alive and well. For millions of Americans concerned with rights of the helpless, the abortion issue is near the top of every voting decision. Don't forget; Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi would have probably got their health care reform legislation on President Obama's desk if it weren't for Michigan's very own Bart Stupak and some other pro life democrats in the House who would not compromise on their principles.

Rick-Mi
01-30-2010, 01:23 PM
But I'm not a stranger to this phenomenon. 29 years ago, when my wife was pregnant with our first daughter, a routine blood test supposedly suggested that my wife might have recently contracted rubella. In a panic, we frantically sought out multiple professional opininons... including one from a well-regarded immunologist who also happened to be a TV station medical commentator at the time. We got conflicting advice; the immunologist suggested that the test results were incontrovertible... our obstretician disagreed vociferously.

Neither my wife nor I are zealots, one way or the other, on the abortion issue. If there was evidence that the fetus was adversely and severely affected, we might indeed have aborted... but we decided to accept the advice of our obstretician, and our baby was just perfect.... and today, she has a perfect baby of her own.


That is a heart warming story Norman......


But for balance, one might talk to parents of a severely defective child who was not aborted.... one, like my cousin's daughter, who shows no evidence whatsoever of having any quality of life, She was not aborted, and her parents don't regret their decision.... but raising her has had a severe and profound affect on their lives. The girl is a woman now... barely 4 feet tall, spending her days in a child's stroller, wearing diapers, not recognizing people who come to see her... no speech, only questionable sight... it's a terrible tragedy, and were her parents not of the character to be able to cope with this, it's not clear to me that abortion wouldn't have been a preferable outcome.


That's a tough one and I solute your cousin's fortitude. However, the vast majority of abortions are simply a hideous form of birth control. In a revamp of abortion law, accommodations could certainly be made for prenatal defects like you just described.

Garret
01-30-2010, 01:33 PM
No need to shoot the messenger. The story is either true, or it isn't. I'm not suggesting that Allred is absolutely right; I'm simply suggesting that the entire story hinges on Tebow's mother's assertion of circumstances from 20 years ago. The Filipino law does suggest that it would be less likely that a legitamate doctor would suggest an abortion... and the reasons for suggesting it haven't been revealed.

But I'm not a stranger to this phenomenon. 29 years ago, when my wife was pregnant with our first daughter, a routine blood test supposedly suggested that my wife might have recently contracted rubella. In a panic, we frantically sought out multiple professional opininons... including one from a well-regarded immunologist who also happened to be a TV station medical commentator at the time. We got conflicting advice; the immunologist suggested that the test results were incontrovertible... our obstretician disagreed vociferously.

Neither my wife nor I are zealots, one way or the other, on the abortion issue. If there was evidence that the fetus was adversely and severely affected, we might indeed have aborted... but we decided to accept the advice of our obstretician, and our baby was just perfect.... and today, she has a perfect baby of her own.

But for balance, one might talk to parents of a severely defective child who was not aborted.... one, like my cousin's daughter, who shows no evidence whatsoever of having any quality of life, She was not aborted, and her parents don't regret their decision.... but raising her has had a severe and profound affect on their lives. The girl is a woman now... barely 4 feet tall, spending her days in a child's stroller, wearing diapers, not recognizing people who come to see her... no speech, only questionable sight... it's a terrible tragedy, and were her parents not of the character to be able to cope with this, it's not clear to me that abortion wouldn't have been a preferable outcome.

This is why the decision to abort should be reserved for the couple who might have to face it.

Eloquent post, Norm.

I find the dichotomy presented by the anti-choice folks quite interesting (if not laughable). Most tend to be libertarian about any other subject & prefer that the "nanny state" not tell them how to live their lives. However, they want the gov't to tell others how to live theirs when it comes to a woman's choice.

I guess they believe that they & they alone are entitled to have it both ways.

Garret
01-30-2010, 01:34 PM
However, the vast majority of abortions are simply a hideous form of birth control

Horsefeathers.

Walk a mile in a person's shoes....

Ian McColgin
01-30-2010, 01:40 PM
Rick-Mi, it's nice that you stand alone among the anti-abortionists in your allowance for abortion due to severe fetal defect. It must be lonely.

Donn is right that women will have abortions and that if legal safe abortions are not available they will have illegal unsafe abortions. I'm old enough to remember the ravages of illegal abortions on young women I knew and no "pro-life" lies will get me agreeing that we should go back to those horrors.

The claim that Mrs. Tebow "chose" to carry her pregnancy to term is at least true to the extent that she chose not to have an illegal abortion. But then, any woman who has had a child to some extent chose to have the child. It's lovely that she at least in retrospect owns her choise. Everyone should be so happy with their choises.

Should anti-choise investors (Super Bowl ads are a very big investment) be allowed to air this ad?

Yes, if the statements cannot be proven false.

No, if it turns out that Mrs Tebow's claim to have chosen against her physicians' advice is false.

Whatever else goes into an ad, arguable claims and positive spin and all that, flat lies are not on.

Chris Ostlind
01-30-2010, 02:05 PM
And hasn't our boy Timmy, in one simple Super Bowl ad, made himself one really attractive politically charged package for the NFL draft?

Yep, the teams will be standing in line to nab this kid and all his picketing baggage and all the ugly press associated from both sides. Free Speech, or not, sometimes it's just a whole lot better to keep the flap zippered and lay low until one's future has a chance to unfold because of professional realities in the trade.

I'll bet that his agent is just puking over this grandstand effort with not a whiff of a signed contract anywhere in sight. Someone hand the boy a bucket of water, as he's about to set himself on fire.

Four years of hard work in collegiate football, shot to hell in one 30 second spot. Yes, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

LeeG
01-30-2010, 02:14 PM
yep, if he layed low working hard as a gladiator for the sports empire he could leave with millions to fund operation rescue.

Garret
01-30-2010, 02:20 PM
yep, if he layed low working hard as a gladiator for the sports empire he could leave with millions to fund operation rescue.

If Michael Vick can get a job on an NFL team, Tebow won't have any trouble....

Chris Ostlind
01-30-2010, 03:39 PM
A couple of things...

Vick has always been known as a QB with world class running ability. The kind that keeps him out of trouble and makes defenses go nuts. He's also accurate and has a very quick release. Vick has a very big tool box

Tebow is not a runner of the same caliber as Vick. He's much more about power than finesse and speed. He'll be good for short yardage situations, such as a goal line. His release is slow when compared to professional standards. A pro coach isn't going to let Tebow run in the open field as an offensive weapon. He'll be hunted down and creamed every time he leaves the pocket by guys who are all much faster, much bigger and smarter than virtually all of the opponents he has been used to seeing in college. A career ending injury is just around the corner on every play when the QB leaves the pocket and looks to do a number on the defense with some cool runing moves.

The guy has some very serious work to do to be ready to play at that level. Not saying he can't, just sayin' that there's a lot of work in front of him. The first thing that will go, will be those cute bible passages embedded in his eye black. I'll give you three guesses as to how thug linebacker Ray Lewis will respond to a rookie spouting bible quotes on his face.

Vick, on the other hand, is a proven weapon and an absolute steal as a backup to McNabb. The dudes in the Eagle's clubhouse know Vick and trust how he plays the game. Not an endorsement of Vick's past behavior off the field, just callin' it as it is.

Tebow and his inevitable bible banging entourage, are a complete unknown at the pro game. Yet, here he is, loading-up on the negative plate well before the draft has ever taken place. If this Super Bowl ad business is an indicator of his ability to make sound decisions in situations that have big meaning, then I'm starting to look elsewhere if I'm a GM, or coach, of a team that has a serious need to fill and a potent first round pick in my pocket.

Garret
01-30-2010, 05:19 PM
Absolutely no argument with anything you said about Vick's skills vs. those of Tebow.

I was referring purely to any public relations issues.