Kit Wooden Boats are traditionals ?

[venetianguy]

Thinking about kit boats i have seen around this came to my mind:
Ok wooden boats are nice but what do we love about kits;
Maybe we can have building it
Maybe it costs less
Maybe it is a challenge

But is it a real traditional Boat ?
There are no real frames, there is no keel, it is epoxy encapsulated,

just thinking :confused:

[Ged]

I think that regardless of what you decide to do, there aren't going to be any "Traditional Aesthetics" police to come and smack you around to "straighten you out" if your boat doesn't conform to what they think it should be. My father built a houseboat for us nearly thirty years ago. To this day, I've never seen another like it, and the only boats that I've seen that compare are pretty expensive production models. Traditional? No. But it was awesome and one the best things I and my family ever had.

I think you'll find that once you're out on the water enjoying the heck out of whatever it is you decide to build, you'll understand what it is that really matters.

[Ged]

What kits/plans are you considering?

[venetianguy]

Hi there Ged and thanks for your opinion.
I like that, a house boat, but i don't think my future wife will move in it easily!!!!
About the kit boat, i would love a runabout, something like the Rascala with inboard engine or I.O. Will see.
About tradition i woul like to have a boat built with frames,ribs,keel, sheer and whatelse make a boat " traditional" at least as structure.

The problem at this point is that i do not believe i can find any precuted kit boat that match this criteria.

Talk to you soon,
Andrea

[Mr. Know It All]

A traditional boat in the part of Ohio I live in wasn't a kit boat but, was mass produced for many years. They were "clinker" built lapstrake constructed runabouts with inboard 8 cylinder power.
Like this 21 footer made in the 60's.

http://www.lymanboat.com/wagner.jpg

Many older "Lyman" boats are still around and being restored. Could you possibly find something like this traditional to where you live and restore it instead of building a kit boat that doesn't meet your needs?
Just an idea. :D I've found you can learn alot about building from an old boat.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

P.S. A good website---> http://www.lymanboat.com/

[ 06-29-2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[DavidF]

Well put, Ged.
Style is a matter of the soul expressed. And soul is the essence of tradition. Anyone who has been to a small town parade when the soul was there, knows what I mean.

[Tomcat]

So what is the real question, whether wood epoxy boats are traditional, or whether traditonal boats are available in kit form? I think generaly "no" to either.

Why not build a Bolger Sneakeasy, so easy, no kit required:

http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Sneakeasy/Sneakeasy.htm

[TomRobb]

Kit-boat and "Traditional" are not the same kinds of things even if both are wood.

[ErikH]

IMO one of the problems would be that traditional building requires a pretty high degree of precision, has tons of tiny but important pieces, and has lots of funky bevels and the like. When you couple that with the unpredicatble nature of wood as opposed to ply (bendability and grain can vary by the piece) it's no surprise that nobody makes a complete kit for traditional construction.

So why don't they sell a traditional 'kit that needs work'? For example prebent (but not shaped) frames, planking sawn to 1/8" over to allow for perfect fitting, etc...? Because let's face it: if you're good enough to take a kit like that and make a boat, you don't really need the kit smile.gif

I love traditional boats. I'd like to own one. But (at least right now) I"m nowhere good enough to build one on my own!

[Stephen Hutchins]

I think making a kit for a bright finnished speed boat would be a huge challenge for designer, kit builder and customer/assembler. Even if everything was precut, the customer would have to have had a good deal of experience to finish a show quality mahogany runabout from a kit.

[venetianguy]

Everything You guys are saying are thru.
But since i really good on giving my self really bad headhacke i am wondering:

Just image a magic box that gives you the pieces to build a real traditional boat with all it's elements, frames, keel, planking (i know it's ridicoulus to think about it!!!!!) everything already done, i mean everything.........

at this point wonderland esists, but what would i do ?

Would i restore a old beatyfull boat, would i build a more simply kit, or whatelse ?????

Anybody want to share my headhacke ?????

Ciao
:confused:

[Ged]

V.G. (aren't you glad that your handle isn't venetiandude?), my intuition tells me that there may be a restoration job in your future.

I think that if a traditional boat is your first priority with simple construction running a close second, then finding a boat which needs a little TLC might be just what you're looking for. I'll bet there's a boat out there somewhere that's pitiably calling out to you ("Save me!") from underneath some tarp. If you do indeed live somewhere in or around Venice ("Ahhh, Venice..."), then surely there must be many such opportunities for finding such a boat?

[Tomcat]

I don't know about aircraft in general, but TEAM (now ISON) aircraft used to make nice kit planes, mostly out of wood. The major load bearing parts are solid wood. no problem. The problem with wooden boats isn't that a kit can't be made for a traditional boat. The word "traditional" might woo one into the impresion that there is a fixed object here. But in fact, as everyone here knows, there is a tiny market, and a huge variety. So kits are economicaly, not practicaly difficult to make. Even with plans, nobody seems able to leave them alon, they always make changes, Kits would be a nightmare.

[Eric Sea Frog]

Ecco, Signor. Quelques idées:

http://www.cantierino.it/A-PagEsperienze.html

[Bruce Hooke]

I would be a little careful about how big a restoration project you try to take on, if you are thinking "easy to build". In some ways restorations can be more challanging than new construction. To give an example, I am helping with the rebuild of a traditionally constructed rowing boat. The stem rotted out in a way that was not visible and then, when it gave way, it did so in a way that pretty much destroyed the stem for use as a pattern for the new stem. So, since the molds & half-model for the boat were not available (we talked to the yard that built her) we had to try to figure out the shape of the new stem based on pulling together the planks and building a pattern off of them. It was, I can assure you, an interesting challange. So, my point is that, when looking at candidates for a rebuild, you need to make sure that the jobs required seem like jobs you are up to. Of course if there are a couple of things that are out of your range you can try to bring in someone to do just those things...

[DavidF]

I make a distinction between a boat built using traditional means and a boat that is traditional in its aesthetic and sailing characteristics. I am pretty sure (tho' not willing to test it) that it is possible to build a butt-ugly modern racing-style vessel using only techniques employed two hundred years ago.

[TomRobb]

VenetianGuy,
There IS a magic box with just the boat you want in it - a boat dealer. You give them your money and out comes a boat.
I'd have supposed that there is no lack of available boats in Venice :rolleyes:

[venetianguy]

Well, Thanks everybody for posting,

Maybe the magic box id a dealership, but sincerely i think that's a kind of easy thinking, fo sure is easy to buy, more than building.

Well i wont give up and keep going with my headhacke, thanks god someone is more constructive and helping me to figure out what to do and how.

Anybody knows anything about really advance kit boats ( everything already done) ?
Ciao
Andrea

[TomRobb]

Rather than build a kit-boat, find a builder, Venice ought to have a few :rolleyes: , and persuade one to help you learn how to construct the boat you really want. I'd think the whole process, the experience, would be as valuable as the end product - the boat you want.
Keep in touch smile.gif

[Ged]

Andrea, have you been to the Glen-L site and looked at some of their stuff? It looks to me like they sell partial kits for their plywood powerboat designs. Be sure to look at their "Outboard" designs too, as some of them are also designed for several different types of power options.

http://www.glen-l.com/subdesn.html