Commander of USS Cowpens Relieved for ‘cruelty’

[boatbuddha]

Wow, I can't remember the last time something like this happened.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/ap_cowpens_cofired_011310/

[James McMullen]

Wow! Wish they had more details. Was she channeling the spirit of Cap'n Bligh, or what?

[switters]

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3758747359382999584&postID=6177970759044581068&pli=1

blog of some sailors who served with Holly Graf, and they dont seem to be supporting her.

[Roger Long]

Looks like she has a bright (or maybe that should be "dark") and lucrative career ahead of her if she leaves the navy.

Look for her on Craig's list and some of the darker corners of the Internet in a few years:)

[Hal Forsen]

Dang!
I read most of that blog and she comes off as a psycho.

Just one entry:

I served with then, LCDR Graf, during her XO tour. I was one of her department heads. For 18 months we endured her incompetence and disrespect for her fellow sailor. She did not care about the crew or morale. In fact, she flat out told me, and I quote, "I don't give a f**k about the crew's morale!!" She was downright mean and sadistic. Being sworn at was the routine, not the exception. Being belittled was commonplace. Having items thrown at you happened. If she didn't like you, watch out, as she held a grudge...forever. If she was mad at you, you got the silent treatment. That may sound appealing, but it is difficult to get ship's business done if the XO refuses to acknowledge your presence or accept your paperwork. Did we complain? You bet we did, but it fell on deaf ears because she was seen as this rising star. She had zero shiphandling skills. I could go on and on with countless stories that still make me shake today when I think about them. In my eyes, she should have NEVER had command. She pulled the wool over someone's eyes. This dismissal is long overdue and she should be forced to resign and just fade away. I am not surprised by this in the least. She has negatively effected thousands of officers and sailors, including myself. I have no doubt the COWPENS and the U.S. Navy is a better place today because of this.


Really curious why she has not been given her walkin' papers?
IMHO Women have no business serving as the CO of a warship.

[Bob Adams]

Sorry Hal, I cannot agree with your "no women" CO statement. On a modern warship configured for a co ed crew, I see no reason a woman couldn't be a Commanding Officer. This person wouldn't have been suitable for command regardless of gender.

[paladin]

Well, obviously of German descent...perhaps she was channeling Adolph himself....

[Hal Forsen]

My opinion.
I'm glad I did my time before the Circe came aboard. ;)
It's caused nothin' but trouble........

[Ian McColgin]

There have been men perhaps (unproven) this bad who made it higher and at least a few quietly prevented from advancement so they never got such power.

It does not sound like guys ganging up on a pushy bitch and it's possible that she rose as far as she did because folk did not want to appear sexist in complaining or sustaining complaints earlier.

Striking a junior certainly establishes a problem even the Navy can't ignore.

Putting her in a non-command position sounds like a combination of pre-court deal through a few back channels coupled with - just a guess here - her being really good at some form of analytic work still of value to the Navy.

Too bad there are no new episodes of JAG coming along.

[pwilling]

Fascinating story. I get two things out of it. One, who would have thought it possible to have a blog like that when they can remember all the merde that was going on during the Viet Nam police action. Modern communications is a mixed blessing, but I wish I could have read stuff from the ranks about the execrable "leadership" behavior they witnessed.

Two, isn't it sad that the hot-house environment in which we try to give women a fair shake gets hopelessly corrupted and results in such a disastrous mess. Young women following Graf have HER to thank for the conclusion that women of any kind have no place on the bridge of a Navy ship. Thanks, babe -- just what we were hoping for.

[Doug B]

One wonders if being given command of the "Cowpens" didn't tighten her already twisted knickers.

[Bob Adams]

One wonders if being given command of the "Cowpens" didn't tighten her already twisted knickers.

Aw come on, who wouldn't be proud to skipper the "Mighty Moo":D

[Don Z.]

If she wasn't a woman of flag rank, she'd be looking at jail time.


I only see four stripes on that sleeve. When did an O6 become flag rank?

[David G]

My son says his boat was docked alongside the Cowpens. He further states that the CO was widely regarded as "crazy." He watched the admiral board her, with a replacement CO, and some MP's, in tow, and - 20 minutes later - watched him escort the old CO, relieved of duty, off the boat. Definitely sad that it got that far. I hope it inspires some soul-searching in the appropriate quarters.

[The Bigfella]

This situation was about her putting her hands on an officer's throat in a fit of anguish, thus the IG investigation.
...

[Paul Girouard]

Really curious why she has not been given her walkin' papers?

Two words "Political correctness", cost us lifes at Ft. Hood. This was less costly incident.

IMHO Women have no business serving as the CO of a warship.



Roger that on your last sentence!

[Paul Girouard]

Sorry Hal, I cannot agree with your "no women" CO statement. On a modern warship configured for a co ed crew, I see no reason a woman couldn't be a Commanding Officer. This person wouldn't have been suitable for command regardless of gender.



Note Hal said warship, theres plenty of supply ships and Oilers with mixed civilian and co-ed crews that need Skipper's. Ship of the line or combatant ships should not be co-ed , nor commanded by female CO's.

They shouldn't be flyin , Pilot's nor NFO's in combat / attack / fighter aircraft either.

[Ian McColgin]

Paul is entitled to his opinion. Having met more than a few women well qualified by experience and emotionally for combat command, not to mention the women I've known well qualified for combat - i.e. killers - I know that his opinion will simply vanish in the dust.

[Paul Girouard]

I know that his opinion will simply vanish in the dust.



No doubt about that Ian. No doubt at all.

[BarnacleGrim]

Women can certainly serve well on warships, just like merchant ships - if they want to. But when they wilfully screw up and you point that out, you're sexist!

[paladin]

Back to something I have said before.....women belong in combat as well as men IF THAT IS THEIR SERIOUS DESIRE. A large percentage of the most tenacious fighters we encountered in Vietnam were women. I have met some women that were Russian Snipers in WWII, I have had tea with them. I have met women "fighters" in other countries and in some respects I would rather go against a man because the women can be downright EVIL in combat.

[David G]

Back to something I have said before.....women belong in combat as well as men IF THAT IS THEIR SERIOUS DESIRE. A large percentage of the most tenacious fighters we encountered in Vietnam were women. I have met some women that were Russian Snipers in WWII, I have had tea with them. I have met women "fighters" in other countries and in some respects I would rather go against a man because the women can be downright EVIL in combat.

Thanks, Chuck, for sharing an informed opinion. Those of you who expressed the opinion that women have no business in combat might also look at what other entrenched wrongheaded opinions you hold dear.:rolleyes:

[boatbuddha]

In case anyone is interested I've gotten a copy of the IG's report on Graf and the Cowpens. I'm going through it over the next few days but I've posted some of it today.

http://admiraltymaritimelaw.blogspot.com/2010/03/navy-inspector-generals-report-on-holly.html

[Bob Cleek]

http://www.navytimes.com/xml/news/2010/01/ap_cowpens_cofired_011310/011410nt_graf_holly_800.JPG

No need to ask. No need to tell.

I can't ever remember seeing a Captain with as little fruit salad on their chest as this one!

[Don Z.]

Bob, That's a Legion of Merit, A Bronze Star, and A Defense Distinguished Service Medal.

For some reason I've never been able to fathom, it is common in the Navy to wear only the "top three".

[Bill Griffin]

It was a local command option to authorize wearing only personal awards, minimum of three, way back when I was stationed at 1st Marine Brigade at Kaneohe in the early '70s. We were allowed to dispense wearing campaign ribbons and various geedunk stuff, as long as one had at least three of those personal awards. Dunno if the Capt. should have the command, but doesn't look like a broad I'd want to piss off.

[switters]

It was a local command option to authorize wearing only personal awards, minimum of three, way back when I was stationed at 1st Marine Brigade at Kaneohe in the early '70s. We were allowed to dispense wearing campaign ribbons and various geedunk stuff, as long as one had at least three of those personal awards. Dunno if the Capt. should have the command, but doesn't look like a broad I'd want to piss off.

Pretty typical now of the USMC, at least the wing side.

K-Bay 85-88,

[Don Z.]

Pretty typical now of the USMC, at least the wing side.

K-Bay 85-88,

I've never seen it in 24 years, but I don't swing much with the wing...

[Paul Girouard]

Working uni like that, just top three is OK/ normal uniform of the day.

The pin over the RH pockets a command pin , meaning that photo was taken when she was the CO of Cowpens.

The deal over the ribbons is a Surface Warfare spec. pin. I'm not sure what the bigger round pin above the SW pin is?

[Lucky Luke]

............because the women can be downright EVIL in combat.

Opinion shared by many here about their ex- "long hair comrade soldiers" :D:rolleyes:

[Don Z.]

Looks like a Joint Chiefs of Staff pin...

Khakis I'd consider a working uniform... but SDBs?

It's a Navy thing... I wouldn't understand...

[Paul Girouard]

Looks like a Joint Chiefs of Staff pin...

Khakis I'd consider a working uniform... but SDBs?

It's a Navy thing... I wouldn't understand...




Uni's have changed a lot since I got out but that black jacket would have been a office type "working UOD" IIRC.

If you add the full boat of ribbons it dresses it up.

[mmd]

I sailed under a captain whom had this lovely little motto on an engraved brass plaque on his desk:

When you have them by the balls...
Their hearts and minds soon follow.

[Bob Cleek]

Bob, That's a Legion of Merit, A Bronze Star, and A Defense Distinguished Service Medal.

For some reason I've never been able to fathom, it is common in the Navy to wear only the "top three".

Right you are! I really didn't look at them much, noticing the single bar more than anything else. I learn something new in here every day! I can certainly see the point of cutting back to the top three "personals" for routine wear. OTOH, the pic I posted was her Navy List official portrait, published for international identification purposes, among other things. Everybody seems to to dress formal for those photos.

So I checked her out. Sorry, but for all intents and purposes, what you see is pretty much all she's got. Graf's personal awards total a Legion of Merit, a Bronze Star, a Defense Meritorious Service Medal and two Meritorious Service Medals. Even though, it's a rather strange collection, or so it would seem.

The Legion of Merit (the only medal worn around the neck besides the Medal of Honor) is for "exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements" by military personnel of the US and allied countries. It's a highly political "super atta-boy" medal for doing a good job outside of combat situations or just as something to give to foreign big-wigs. It's really been devalued by its being awarded indiscriminately for political reasons, or so they say. Kay Summersby got one for being Eisenhower's (ahem...) "driver" during WWII. (Not to take away anything from anybody who's really earned one. Many who should have been in line for a Medal of Honor ended up with a LoM simply because the fact they were engaged in combat couldn't be publicly acknowledged.)

Her Bronze Star is another monument to the devaluation of decorations. Time was, the Bronze Star was for conspicuous bravery in combat, although it could also be given for "meritorious service" by service members in combat who are receiving imminent danger pay. Graf, commanding an Arleigh Burke destroyer, was lollygagging around the Persian Gulf with a carrier task force for a time. No indication of any exposure to enemy fire, no combat per se, just part of a carrier task force dropping bombs on sand dunes. SHE was apparently awarded the Bronze Star for being the "designated token female in command."

Then there's the "Defense Meritorious Service Medal" which was invented by Jimmy Carter to reward people who just did their jobs, which, I suppose is pretty remarkable for a lot of the brass. This medal is awarded in the name of the Secretary of Defense to members of the Armed Forces who, while serving in a joint activity, distinguish themselves by non-combat outstanding achievement or meritorious service, but not of a degree to warrant award of the Defense Superior Service Medal. (To get the "Superior Service Medal," you've got to swallow.)

Captain Graf's former subordinates have put together a "Late Night Top Ten List" of her notable accomplishments, posted on an unofficial Navy blog:


#10. Abandoning a VBSS team while on mission to answer a S/V distress call

#9. Grabbing a Royal Navy LT by the neck and dragging him to a bridge wing. Screaming at him "did you run my F-ing ship aground"

#8. Calling the XO the stupidest MFer she has ever seen.

#7. RHIB at the rail followed by a 30 degree turn (that was fun)

#6. RHIB on the hook in heavy seas, and refusing to raise or release.

#5. Throwing hand held radios at officers and crew.

#4. Getting hammered at softball games, then driving.

#3. Ordering 25kts in the basin coming out of Italy

#2. Fixing the deck log in Italy

#1. After a hurricane sortie, DESRON telling her, NO YOU ARE to return your ship to port immediately

BONUS** Receiving a bronze star for all of her hard work during deployment and not even thanking her crew, the ones who got it for her.

Sounds like another one like that MD who when postal at Ft. Hood. Everybody knew there was a problem, but was afraid of getting labled "politically incorrect" and never spoke up.

[Bob Smalser]

To get the "Superior Service Medal," you've got to swallow.



Well damn, Cleek.

You must have a lot of hard service to be so obscenely glib about the service of others. Or at least a number of years in command of something larger than your yacht.

How 'bout it?

[Robmill0605]

SHE was apparently awarded the Bronze Star for being the "designated token female in command."


This looks like another female booted up the ladder by her gender, not her accomplishments. It looks good, to have a female CO.
What about the valor of the legitimate holders of the Bronze star who earned it in combat?
This woman is a disgrace to the uniform.
Just more political correctness, bumped up to Captain, awarded medals she doesn't deserve, and a command she can't handle.
She sounds like a real bitch.

[Dave Hadfield]

Looks like she needs either estrogen or testosterone.

Either one, but more.

Dave

[downthecreek]

#7. RHIB at the rail followed by a 30 degree turn (that was fun)

#6. RHIB on the hook in heavy seas, and refusing to raise or release.



Please, what is "RHIB"?

[willmarsh3]

Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat

[downthecreek]

Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat

Of course! Sorry. I would probably know it as a RIB.

[donald branscom]

"As a former crew member of WSC I can say she treated EVERYONE that I knew with absolute disrespect and often belittled officers in front of enlisted personnel, breaking down her own chain of command. Basically she is a horrible person and this should have happen 5 years ago."

Wait till she is a civilian and tries that stuff!!!
We are the real judges.

I had a commanding officer that got himself and an airman killed with his arrogant behavior. Met him personally. Can't say any more. If you have been in the military you know why.

[BarnacleGrim]

Screaming, hitting and otherwise abusing is suicide when you're in command. All it does is show you're not in command.

[Emma56]

http://www.navytimes.com/xml/news/2010/01/ap_cowpens_cofired_011310/011410nt_graf_holly_800.JPG

No need to ask. No need to tell.

I can't ever remember seeing a Captain with as little fruit salad on their chest as this one!
She makes me tingle all over :)

[Saltiguy]

About 40 years ago I was in Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Jackson. We had a Company Commander who was a total nut job. Our company had the distinction of having more AWOLs than the rest of the post combined. He was a very nasty guy, and incompetent to boot - you had to wonder how he ever got his bars. He was very much like the sadistic, egotistical Basic Training Captain portrayed in Band of Brothers.
One day he was gone. Replaced by a new CO, and a result we believed of our mass insurrection a few days earlier. I always wondered what happened to that guy.

[PatCassidy]

Band of Brothers - I read somewhere that, at the first reunion of Easy Company following the release of the mini-series, the son of now-deceased Capt. Herbert Sobel (the basic training captain) showed up. He was introduced to the audience as Sobel's son and received a standing ovation from the troops.

With regard to the navy captain, I am shocked that she was allowed to advance like she did. I read the blog that is linked in this thread - it is amazing that so many crew, including fellow officers, would comment like they did. It demonstrates how much hostility was suppressed during her reign. Hard to believe the Navy would let the situation get so out-of-control.

[The Bigfella]

Anyone read Stormin' Norman's book? Not the Navy, but it illustrates very well how these situations get so out of control.