Self reefing/furling topsail

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Does anyone happen to have any drawings (preferably dimensioned) of a self-reefing or -furling topsail arrangement for a square-rigger? Lars Bruzelius has transcribed some design descriptions from the mid-1800s -- Colling & Pinkney's, Cunningham's, and Howe's -- but a client wants to have one of these lash-ups built for his barquentine, and is interested in seeing some drawings.

I suppose it hardly needs saying that this a squaresail, not the more-familiar gaff topsail.

http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Rigging/fig176.gif

Mike
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[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I have seen a better way. A small brigantine that we used to see about had an aluminium yard, and the sail rolled up inside it. Neat, little windage, light weight.

[Seppo]

Hi

doesn't the Lord Nelson have roller reefing upper square sails (the ship for disabled in UK); perhaps they can help you some? See http://www.jst.org.uk/

Best
Seppo

[Jay Greer]

I am toying with the idea of adding squares to the next boat I plan to build for my own use, a Herreshoff "Bounty".
Herreshoff himself was fascinated with square sails and designed a few boats using that option, (see Sinsible Cruising Desighns). He advocated splitting the squares into two" bifurcated", panels on each yard. This could, in theory, allow the sails to be reefed on
individual vertical rollers in line with the mast attached top and bottom to the yards or deck/ The advantage of a bifurcated square sail is that it aids in damping rolling action.

[Jay Greer]

I should have pre-read my post. Sorry for the typo
"Sensible Cruising Designs"!

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

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Thank you, gentlemen.

I've contacted the JST, Seppo, and I'll let you know the outcome. Thanks for the tip.

Mike.
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[JamesCaird]

For some photographs of roller furling topsail, look closely at photos of E. Shackleton's barquentine Endurance in various views amongst Frank Hurley's from their 1914-1916 Antarctic voyage. (Endurance was crushed and sunk by Nov 1916)If you do not have access to any books with those photos (Caroline Alexander's Endurance or South With Enduarance) let me know and I could scan some into an e-mail. Cheers/Wallace

[George.]

Square sails, again. I really want one on Dalia's foremast...

Question - why do most schooners with squares you see in pictures have a square foretopsail, but almost never a square foresail? You'd think it is a lot easier to handle a lower squaresail, coming down to the deck and being able to be lowered, yard and all. Also, it can be a lot larger.

Second question - does the extra windage from yard and rigging kill you when going to windward? How much difference does it make? Any first-hand experiences?

[TomF]

The design Tom Colvin discusses throughout his book Steel Boatbuilding is a pinky schooner, with a big square on the foremast for downwind work. He designed that one for use in the tropics, and said that a square on a schooner is especially well suited to sailing in the trades. Described it as exceptional for any point of sail up to a broad reach or even a bit closer, if I recall correctly.

Colvin did comment that the yard caused a lot of drag going to windward. Said that especially in northern climates (i.e. not primarily tradewind sailing), he advocated mounting the yard on a jackstay just forward of the foremast, so the yard could be lowered to the deck when it wasn't going to be set for an extended period.

Lots of very fine information in Colvin's book - not just on steel boatbuilding, but on sensible accommodations design, and how commercial sailing vessels rig their vessels to get the biggest bang for the buck in solid workmanlike equipment.

BTW, the pinky in Colvin's book really grabs me. 42 feel LOD, 49 feet LOA with foc'sle, aft owner's stateroom, and a small cargo hold amidships - it spawns daydreams about a self-sufficient, subsistence, sailing-based lifestyle. Not that Colvin himself would react well to such improbable blue-skying.

In an e-mail exchange we had once (before I got his book), he came across as brilliant, but opinionated and curmudgeonly as hell ... The attitude brought you up short, but you then realize at least where boats were concerned, that the guy is dead right.

E.g., his book speaks plainly and not-too-admiringly about yachtsmen and their "needs." Precious little time, for e.g., for big cabin trunks, as the deck space is more valuable for working the ship. Connected to that, standing headroom isn't vastly important ("Some want it even over bunks, where it serves no purpose. There's plenty of headroom on deck."), nor are heads with showers, or various luxury doo-dads. Based on thousands of his own sea-miles, Colvin emphasizes a serious navigation station, a generous and handy rig, and a place for folks to lounge when off-watch.

Tom.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Tilman was an enthusiast for square topsails for use in ice; he pointed me to Frank Worsley's book "Under Sail in the Frozen North" where, having lost the prop to ice damage, they worked down a lead, too narrow to tack or wear in, by backing and filling.

(Worsley was Shackleton's navigator.)

Trading schooners carried square topsails for just this purpose - working up into narrow creeks - rather than for use downwind, although they certainly helped for that.

This also explains why the collier brig lasted into the twentieth century.

Working to windward, furl the square topsail and brace the yard round each time you tack, so that it is always pointed at the apparent wind.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

Also have a look at Claud Worth's "Yacht Cruising" and "Yacht Navigation and Voyaging" Both available at:Abe Books (https://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/CCInfoPL)
somewhere, I would think. He was a big proponent of square sails on gaff cutters/yawls, with a rather nifty removable rigging system...

Edited to add: on the original topic (i.e. square riggers) the PR and Events Manager for the Tall Ships Youth Trust (operated the brigs Stavros S Niarchos and Prince William) is a friend of mine - let me know if you have no joy with the JST. Think the 2 TSYT brigs are traditionally rigged re furling, but my contact may have other ways into JST!

Cheers

Andrew

[ 03-08-2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Andrew S/Y Rocquette ]

[Dave Hadfield]

I use a squaresail on my ketch Drake from time to time. The yard is hauled to a block fastened 3 ft down from the top of the mast. I lower the yard and all when I'm not using it.

I've considered furling, brailing lines for it, but there are already enough lines aloft on my rig. I just drop it when I'm not going to use it -- not much help to your barkentine.

The idea of a rope (or wire) jackyard in front of the mast is a good one. When I lower my square there's yard and sail all over the place for a minute. A jackyard would contain that, and I understand that's what the Great Lakes cargo schooners often did.

A restriction in use is the placement of the yard relative to the shrouds. If they're in the way, you can't brace the yard around as much as you should be able to. The yard hits the shroud. If you're the rig designer, this would prove embarassing -- but I'm sure you're way ahead on that one.

Otherwise you can use the sail, usefully, up to a close reach.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

You must, if you have spreaders at all, have them pivotted at the inboard end and free to swing. This is good practice anyway.