Antonio Dias - Harrier

[Adrian Valley]

Does anyone know where I can get any information about the Harrier. I am looking for a very seaworthy beach cruiser and wonder how the Harrier might compare with the likes of Iain Oughtred's Arctic Tern/Tirrik and or John Welsfords Navigator/Pathfinder.

All opinions welcome!

ps. Anyone any ideas for plans, Antonio Dias's website seems pretty much defunct.

[TomF]

Ben Fuller has a Harrier, if I remember right. He and I had some discussions about it ... right here. I'd type "harrier" into the search thingy, and stand back!

[Bruce Hooke]

Edited to remove incorrect information because I was looking at the wrong web site.

You should be able to call him at US phone number 401-783-4959, but I realize that is a very long distance call from Australia.

Edited to add, if you are patient, you could also try writing to him at:

171 Cedar Island Road
Narragansett, RI 02882 USA

[ 11-15-2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

[JimConlin]

Ben Fuller, who appears often in these promiscuous parts, has a Harrier and might be in touch with Tony.

[Lion]

Dias Design website has been down for about a year.

There is a discussion on WBF somewhere about it. If I recall Mr. Dias hs gone for a new 'paradigm' which does not include dealing with 'one off' amateur builders.

Lion

[Adrian Valley]

I am hoping I might be able to get the plans still from antoniodiasdesign.com, has anyone tryed to contact him through this site?

What I really want to know though it how the boat might compare with the likes of Tirrik/ Arctic Tern(Iain Oughtred)and/or the likes of Pathfinder/Navigator/Walkabout (John Welsford)in seaworthines and sailing abilty and how they would compare in a blow. I would like to be able to sail in 20kts and stand up to 30kts if I get caught in a squall.

At the risk of being sacrilegious it would also be good to fix a small motor for lazy fishing and when all else fails (though I could be persuaded otherwise.

Thanks for the replies so far, I searched the site, but still wouldn't mind finding out a lot more about the boat, Ben are you out there?

[Bruce Hooke]

My apologies, it appears I was looking at the wrong website.

His single web page does list the Harrier as one of the designs that he still sells to amateur builders.

I'm afraid I can't help with comparing that design with other designs...

[Doug Hamilton]

For a wherry similar to "Harrier", see
http://www.duck-trap.com/2002nts.html

[Ben Fuller]

I think Tony will still provide Harrier plans.

I may have scans of a few of them.

Design parameters called for efficient rowing so if you want to use a motor, pick a different design.

I have not sailed mine against the other boats in which you are interested. Mine got modified from what you will see in plans with side seats extended forward to the forward thwart. I also gave it a daggerboard with space so that it rakes so that it can kick up as I prefer the efficiency and the space gain.

The boat has a flat bottom may be 60cm amidships so that it muds out straight up and trailer loads easily.

It has 15 cm wide rails with all the width to the outside to serve as comfortable hiking seats ( there is a strap) and help keep the water out since she is open. I have yet to get more than spray aboard, in white capped F-5 chop. They also stiffen the hull.

I have a highly developed very light rig. Tony's plans show the fully battened lug. Mast is 2 feet longer than the hull. It is set up with a carefully selected stiff batten in the lower pocket like some catamarans. Rig is somewhat self vanging. Others might boom the lug. My rig is very light as the yard and mast are carbon. I have had to stiffen up the mast: a lug rigged mast can't be too stiff. It has to stay straight when you pull draft out of sail useing a powerful cunningham. The mizzen is essential to keep boat head to wind when reefing in a breeze. I added some area to it from the plans and have now a more developed support for the off center boomkin.

So speed: In F-4-5 it planes unreefed with two aboard: boat weighs about 100kg with over 10 meters in sail. Single handed I was double reefed when H-12 1/2 keel boats were single reefed. I was on the rail hiking, and treating them as slow moving objects. With triple reefs in the same conditions F-5, to 6, I was sitting inboard of the coaming on the seat nice and dry and still passing them. With two aboard it rows easily at 4 knots. As designed the forward seat needs to move aft and you need to move the center seat aft to keep from griping, or drop 20 kilos of lead shot in the stern. I use my daggerboard as a seat and an aft set of oarlocks when rowing double handed.

Since we are sailing a relatively high performance boat, I have put in airbags, under all the side seats and the bow. They easily float the boat to above the trunk height. Boat can be righted like any dingy by standing on the board leaving the rig up.

Tony knows about the various mods but I don't think they are on plans. His web site does have his email on it.

Hope this helps. Contact me off list if you need pics.

Ben

[ 11-16-2005, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Ben Fuller ]

[Peter Lord]

Originally posted by Adrian Valley:
Does anyone know where I can get any information about the Harrier. I am looking for a very seaworthy beach cruiser and wonder how the Harrier might compare with the likes of Iain Oughtred's Arctic Tern/Tirrik and or John Welsfords Navigator/Pathfinder.

All opinions welcome!

ps. Anyone any ideas for plans, Antonio Dias's website seems pretty much defunct.

[Peter Lord]

Oops, Sorry about that, just learning how to send a message. Take a look at Tom Dunderdale's Apple series of boats from 13 to 19 feet. Stitch and glue, light weight, fast, balanced lug ketch rig. he's very helpful when you email or ring. I'm trying to decide which one will be most suitable for me. They vary in beam and length.

http://www.campionboats.co.uk/

Peter

[Peter Lord]

Hi Ben, I'm new to this group. I'm looking for performance like yours. I'm going to try out a balanced lug rig with a thin highly peaked spar which is flexible enough to bend with a downhaul tackle on the boom at the mast. Flattens the sail and tightens the luff. Thin leading edge. Put a lot of round in the top of the sail and prebend the spar. You are the first person I have run across that has mentioned what appears to be a great thing about this rig. If you go to the site on canoe yawls,
http://dragonflycanoe.com/stephens/
and go to the section on sneakboxes and cruising boats you will find the idea from 100 years ago. Reinvented recently as the bendy topmast rig of modern dinghies. Yet none the designs I have seen with the balanced lug rig mention this possibilty. They just use thick solid spars. Paul Fisher has a canoe yawl (Cascoe bay) with curved spars but NOT bendy as far as I know. is this what you have done?

Peter

[Ben Fuller]

The idea for my rig originated with Nigel Irens Roxanne/ Romily series combined with lots of experience with modern International canoes.

We made a mistake with the mast forgetting that bending the mast does not flatten the sail when sail luff is not attached to the mast. Ideally in the lug like in many other rigs, you'd have a halyard lock to reduce the compression loads on the rig. But in the lug when you bend the mast, the sail gets fuller, not flatter.

The lug spar is so well peaked that when you lay the sail out its hard to tell where the luff stops and the head starts. The down hall affects both the luff and the head. I also put the luff spar in a sleeve, with a hole in it for the halyard to attach it. Really simplifies rigging and cleans up the rig.

I will be sending Adrian some pics but I do not have a site onto which I can tuck them and create links for this forum.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Lion:

There is a discussion on WBF somewhere about it. If I recall Mr. Dias hs gone for a new 'paradigm' which does not include dealing with 'one off' amateur builders.

LionWell, if he has, it's nothing new: I had a conversation, by phone, with Mr. Dias at least a decade ago wherein he mentioned that dealing with individuals, and in particular, plans sales, was not where he was interested in going. However, he would have been glad to build the design I was interested in at the time, but plans would not be forthcoming.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Peter Lord:
Oops, Sorry about that, just learning how to send a message. Take a look at Tom Dunderdale's Apple series of boats from 13 to 19 feet. Stitch and glue, light weight, fast, balanced lug ketch rig. he's very helpful when you email or ring. I'm trying to decide which one will be most suitable for me. They vary in beam and length.

http://www.campionboats.co.uk/

PeterMy, I do seem to get aroun... ;)

I've had emails with Tom about "Apple". Tom's very much into performance and his boats are designed for that IMO. I would wonder about how sturdy they would be in a beach cruising role.

I admit bias as John Welsford is a personal friend, but his "Navigator" is one tough boat that was designed for, and tested by, very boisterous S. Pacific waters and rough beaches. Goes like a bat too! ;)

[Ben Fuller]

Jim Conlin was kind enough to post some pics of my Harrier on his website.

Comments: plans do not reflect the changes to layout made in construction. Mine has light bent frames instead of the plywood frames as an Apprentice exercise.

The mizzen has grown considerably due to addition of a big sleeve on the sail for the mast. Easy way to add area and keep things simple. The head of the main has been recut to eliminate the wrinkle. And experimentation with batten stock has provided an optimum lower batten. One in the photos is too flexible.

http:// www.conlin-boats.com/harrier (http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier)

[ 11-23-2005, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Ben Fuller ]

[Clinton B Chase]

Thanks for the Harrier images but only the plans came through...no pics. Can this be fixed? TX.

Cheers,
Clint

[JimConlin]

Edited to add:
This is still buggered. I'll get back to it this evening.
Jim

Sorry this got buggered up .
There are twelve files, named:
p5030023.jpg (http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030023.jpg)
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030022.jpg" target="_blank">p5030022.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030012.jpg" target="_blank">p5030012.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030041.jpg" target="_blank">p5030041.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030045.jpg" target="_blank">p5030045.jpg
</a>

<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/p5030040.jpg" target="_blank">p5030040.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/finishing_touches.jpg" target="_blank">finishing_touches.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/sailplan.jpg" target="_blank">sailplan.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/rig4.jpg" target="_blank">rig4.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/lines.jpg" target="_blank">lines.jpg
</a>
<a href="http://www.conlin-boats.com/harrier/construction2.jpg" target="_blank">construction2.jpg
</a>

I do like that boat!
Jim

[ 12-01-2005, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: JimConlin ]

[Billy Bones]

Originally posted by JimConlin:
Edited to add:
This is still buggered. I'll get back to it this evening.
Jim

For years I've been fruitlessly tracking down anything by Dias. He managed to sell me his catalog(despite my longstanding rule against paying for other people's advertising) only to find it isn't complete by any means. His mag ads all refer back to his nonexistant web site on which his advertised designs do not appear.

I think I'll take this as a sign that it just isn't meant to be with this guy.

[Ben Fuller]

Actually, Tony took a day job. Regular pay check and interesting work. He took down the big web site and is at work on a more modest effort. One can still email him.

[Clinton B Chase]

Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to post the pics but I am getting nothing. I can get some plans off your website but not any photos. Anxious to see...

Go to www.antoniodiasdesign.com (http://www.antoniodiasdesign.com) to view his new website (under construction).

Cheers,
Clint

[JimConlin]

Clint-
You're right. The pix are broken.
I've been under repair this week (new hip) and will see if i can fix 'em soon.