Jim Brown’s Coming Seaclipper 20 trimaran (the “Janganda”)

[Trawlercap]

Jim Brown is still at it. A 20' robust sail camping machine. There is a very interesting audio link here:

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=2259#more-2259


Listen to Jim as he describes both his idea's and the construction method's, materials, and needs he meet's with this boat. Everything seems to tie into itself. In other words. Everything done, is done for a good reason, and with a lot of thought. Jim has always been true to the boat, and fought the high cost and exotic. A real "peoples boat" guy.

[paladin]

I think I detect a very strong John Marples influence in this.....

[Hwyl]

The mp 3 is 29 minutes long

[Trawlercap]

Maybe I should have stated: I have no connection with the Designer Web site owner, or any other realtionship, knowledge of, monetary gain, ah....did I miss anything?

[mizzenman]

Thanks for bringing it up.

Found this just before x-mas. I now have serous lust for a multihuller.

I'm most conserned about the 'Swing Wing' mecanincs. How easy will they be to build for an amateur?

[ShagRock]

Thanks for posting that. There's a sublink at the top of the page to a very nice article, with photos, written by forum member Dan St. Gean on adapting Dierking's Ulua and Tamana designs as trimarans.

(http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=2259)

[paladin]

Jims open wing supports work.....

[Trawlercap]

Thanks for posting that. There's a sublink at the top of the page to a very nice article, with photos, written by forum member Dan St. Gean on adapting Dierking's Ulua and Tamana designs as trimarans.

(http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=2259)

I have really enjoyed Gary Dierking's work also. There is something about a good multihull design that is so nice to see. So many factors. To blend them together and make it all work and still be simple is a high achievement. Years ago Gary cruised the Pacific in own self built 37' Searunner Trimaran.

[slidercat]

I really think there's a huge marketing opportunity for small multihulls that aren't beach cats. In fact, Jim Brown was an inspiration for Slider, though in sort of a backhanded way. He wrote an essay (http://www.cruisingworld.com/under-way/people-and-food/a-new-era-in-small-boat-cruising-200615.html) for Cruising World that was mostly about his line of rotomolded small tris (Windriders.) In it he opined that small cats were not appropriate for beach cruising, because "... squatting on a trampoline does not provide the sailor any protection from the elements while under way."

Well, who could disagree? But I had to wonder why small cats must inevitably have seating on tramps. Turns out, they don't.

http://slidercat.com/blog/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/slider1/sailjul5.jpg

I really have to applaud anyoe who tries to move the art of open boat multihull beach cruising forward, and who better than Jim Brown? I'll look forward to hearing more about his new tri.

[paladin]

Both my 31 tris were basically Jim Brown's work...I had the hulls to the first Piver AA-31 built when Jim built Manta.....and I adapted his bulkhead/ama supports to fit, added the centerboard etc.....but the Searunner 31 was the real winner.....then my eyes got too big and started the 40/41, I had started another 31 intending to make it with the folding arms, but was called back to 'nam...shipped the 31, like a giant model airplane kit, to Jim in California, and he gave me a set of 41 plans in return....I had it almost finished, then sold it and supervised getting it finished for the buyer. The 31 was a fine sailing machine. When I almost had it finished, a reporter for the Oklahoma times stopped by to see the idiot building a boat in his yard...it ended up as a half page article......and you have arrived when ya get "more than just 2 lines in the Oklahoma Times..."

[Trawlercap]

Ray, the Slider looks like a fine little cruiser, and the blog looks like fun, I have book marked it.

Paladin, I know you said in another thread all your boats were ply and epoxy. I had no idea you were referring to Tri's as well. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Brown this past fall at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival. He was sitting by his son Russel's 18' runabout. What a treat it was to spend some time talking. The guy can't see squat, but he has all the energy and spark that I am sure brought him this far.
I guess this new 20' is all Jim's deal. According to John Marple the last report was Jim was in S. America on a cruise and will be back in a few weeks.

[paladin]

Jim has had problems with his sight for some time....It's been a few months since I talked with Jim...need to give him another whistle....he's invited me down several times, but it's a drive for me these days...we are all getting on a bit.

[wtarzia]

...In it he opined that small cats were not appropriate for beach cruising, because "... squatting on a trampoline does not provide the sailor any protection from the elements while under way."...

--- This is why I have favored the proa and tacking outrigger configurations, within which a true cockpit exists. Like your Slider, my Short Dragon as an aft-thwart and a footwell for comfortable sitting. I am a little lazy perhaps, and I enjoy using my mizzen mast as a seat-back (with my PFD as the back cushion) when the wind is good enough that I need not obsess about airflow around the mizzen leading-edge. This sitting position is comfortable and useful on the ama-to-leeward tack and reach, and broad reach. In a wind over 10 knots the ama is a bit too small perhaps, because just when things are exciting with the boat screaming long (for me, anyway) at 10-12 knots, the ama is threatening to bury -- then I wish for a triman or a windward-platform to get out on. A bigger or flotatation-volume-forward ama, like those modern shapes, might cure this need, and the tacking single-outrigger mode would continue to be a good one (= least set-up time, a critical factor us trailer sailors with an hour's drive to salt water).

On the ama-to-windward courses, I have to abandon the cockpit to get on a side-seat, although not too far out -- I can still use the cockpit to put my feet in. But that tack will always be dicey for a single-outrigger, which is, I suppose, where the trimaran comes in as a safe-cruising concept -- which would be wonderful if I had a mooring at the launch site. Telescoping ama tubes for at least one side of a small trimaran would sure be nice: that would allow an 8 foot trailering beam and around a 14 foot sailing beam, and, what does that translate to in modern trimaran design terms? A boat length of around 18 feet? --Wade

[xsboats]

Thanks for bringing it up.

Found this just before x-mas. I now have serous lust for a multihuller.

I'm most conserned about the 'Swing Wing' mecanincs. How easy will they be to build for an amateur?
Mizzenman,E-mail me if you would like to see a drawing showing how the swingwing works. The construction of Jim's boat is designed with amateur builders in mind.

[Bill AU]

G'day mates,

I'm new her so please be gentle with me ;)

After hearing about JB's Seaclipper 20, I can't wait to buy the plans and build one. Anyone here know when the plans will be completed and offered for sale :confused:

I'm not the best woodworker around but, I do enjoy working/building with timber and, when JB says his Seaclipper 20 will be a tough, useful and forgiving Tri' for any novice sailors and...It can be fully built by any novice woodworker! Well that sold me on Jim's Seaclipper 20 :D

Now I can't wait to buy a set of plans and get started on my Seaclipper 20...So anyone know when they'll be available?

Cheers mates,

Bill
Australia

[xsboats]

The first Seaclipper 20 is being built now in my shop and will be at the Cedar Key Meet next month.

[donald branscom]

The mp 3 is 29 minutes long

Thanks for the warning I really appreciate it.
I hate memory hog videos. Or memory hog Flash files, or memory hog news station links, ( the worst of all).

[xsboats]

The plans are now available at John Marples' website , searunner.com .

[LSaupe]

XSBOATS:

Any progress to report on the construction?

[Dan St Gean]

XSBOATS:

Any progress to report on the construction?

Or even better...pictures?

Dan

[xsboats]

We are finishing the boat and will be sailing next week. Pic's will be on my website soon, as well as a video on youtube of the seatrial.. Jim was here for 2 days checking to make sure my tape measure works properly and will be back for seatrials. We video taped him demonstrating the operation of the swingwing and will put it on the site as well. Someone please e-mail, call, or pm me and educate me on how to upload pic's to the forum. I'm much better at building boats than I am with this @#%$! computer stuff. We took the boat to Cedar Key minus the rig, so maybe someone who was there could post a pic or two quicker than me.

[Dan St Gean]

We are finishing the boat and will be sailing next week. Pic's will be on my website soon, as well as a video on youtube of the seatrial.. Jim was here for 2 days checking to make sure my tape measure works properly and will be back for seatrials. We video taped him demonstrating the operation of the swingwing and will put it on the site as well.

Can't wait to see your construction pics!

Dan

[mizzenman]

Great news!

[kenjamin]

Will you be sailing her on the Bay?

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Matanzas.jpg

[xsboats]

Kenjamin, we will sail seatrials down by the shore drive ramp south of 312.Jim will be back to show us how it's done. Come join us with your ketch. After trials, she's headed south to her new owner. Hull #2 will sail with a junior lifeguard program in N. Florida. It won't be until we finish #3 [the shop boat] that you will see us around St. Aug. regularly.

[kenjamin]

Xena will be back in Tallahassee getting prettied up for the Mystic Seaport WoodenBoat Show in June. She's getting a new birdwing mizzen. Look forward to seeing ya'll out there in your #3 boat. I was born and raised in St.Augustine and will probably move there when I retire in a couple of years. Hope to build Oughtred's Haiku at that time. Take care.

Can't wait to see the boat!

[xsboats]

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0382_640x480.jpghttp://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0370_640x480.jpghttp://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0369_640x480.jpghttp://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0377_640x480.jpghttp://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0378_640x480.jpg

[xsboats]

Oh yeah, I forgot text. That's Jim and I looking over a nearly complete prototype of the new Seaclipper 20 design.

[sailboy3]

:cool::cool::cool:!!!

[john l]

did she get wet? how'd it go?

[xsboats]

Only from a little rain. We are finishing the glassing of the hull and rigging the mast and rudder hardware right now. Sea trials are slated for the weekend . I've been on crutches all month , so we weren't able to have her sailing by the Cedar Key Meet. I'll post a video on YouTube of the first sail. Jim is hoping to come back to take part in it. I'll try to put a link to the video on the forum .

[Dan St Gean]

Oh yeah, I forgot text. That's Jim and I looking over a nearly complete prototype of the new Seaclipper 20 design.

Looking forward to the sea trials!

Dan

[john l]

so...how did it go? fotos?

[xsboats]

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/albums/album_image/7399456/6256592.htm (http://wwwseaworthysolutions.net/albums/album_image/7399456/6256592.htm)http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/albums/album_image/7399456/6256592.htmhttp://www.seaworthysolutions.net/albums/album_image/7399456/6256592.htm More later, Scotthttp://forum.woodenboat.com/www.seaworthysolutions.net/albums/album_image/7399456/6256592.htm

[Dan St Gean]

More later, Scott

May I? Looks too good to get red X's.

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/SC%2020%20Sea%20Trial/tn_IMG_0179.JPG

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/SC%2020%20Sea%20Trial/tn_IMG_0177.JPG

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/SC%2020%20Sea%20Trial/tn_IMG_0210.JPG

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/SC%2020%20Sea%20Trial/tn_IMG_0215.JPG

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/SC%2020%20Sea%20Trial/tn_IMG_0212.JPG

I love it!

Dan

[xsboats]

Thanks Dan, I was waiting for my apprentices to come ashore to help me with my computer skill deficiencies in getting the photos posted, Scott

[kenjamin]

Looks great , Scott – congratulations! So the beams are 2x10 yellow pine? Aren't they kind of heavy? Will there ever be a outer bow stem? Seems like she's pushing a lot of water up there with that flat nose. Is that for buoyancy when coming down a swell? Just curious. Thanks for the pictures – looks like a lot of fun!!!

[xsboats]

The akas are of douglass fir. The forward are 2x12 and the aft are 2x8. We will probably scale back on the forward beams on the next one. The stems of the prototype were built as drawn but could easily have fairing pieces added. We did have a lot of fun , both in building her and in the sea-trials. My wife and kids fell in love with sailing all over again. It was a motorcycle and side car compared to our winnebago 50 ketch. P.M. me when you will be back in town so we can meet and discuss how you can get the deformities out of your mainmast! [just kidding, it's cool!]

[slidercat]

Could you tell us a little about the performance-- speed, tacking angles, and so forth?

[xsboats]

I could, but I'll leave that for Jim. He spent the last week with us, preparing for the first launch, video taping, and as usual, telling stories. Look for his audio evaluation to appear on www.smalltrimarans.com. I will say that we did 7.5 knots upwind in less than 10 knots of breeze[2 adults &2 kids], losing nothing in each tack , easily out pointed a local schooner [ I don't have the Freedom to name which one], and out pointed and out ran several 35+ foot sloops. She took the chop and breakers well when sailing out St.Augustine Inlet on an ebb with 10 knots out of the NE. [opposing wind and current] Most important to her sea-trial was her winning the approval of my wife Karen, who was never concerned about the welfare and safety of our kids while on board. The experience was likened to spending the day on a motorcycle and sidecar as opposed to our Winnebago 50 ketch. We even did 5.5 knots upwind with 6 adult and 2 kids aboard.

[wtarzia]

The akas remind me of the flat, flexy akas on the Berque brothers ~20 foot long single outrigger with which they crossed the Atlantic. --Wade

[peterAustralia]

I like this boat

I am impressed with the no nonsense sliding mechanism for the crossbeams.

Previous systems I have seen use aluminium tubes, now Al tubes are no doubt lighter for a given strength, but add complexity. You need addtional skills above woodworking skills (working with aluminium, attaching struts to aluminium, possibly having to learn welding skills)

Using wood, and accepting the weight penalty, becomes a simpler system.

The alternate pivot mechanism can have higher stresses. Also with the outriggers hinged up high, you have to physically lift them up and over which can be an issue with larger outriggers. With outriggers ontop of the main hull for trailering, the center of gravity is raised a bit, possibly an issue.

The boat looks similar to teh Norman Cross 18 trimaran, but that had highed outriggers, supported with stays.

I know that in proas, Skip Johnson changed from a hinging mechanism to a sliding mechansim to reduce overall width to approx 8ft in his P52 proa. Now it may well be that he had inadequate strength in his sponson where the loads were delivered.

If we assume that there is no wire stay, a pivoting mechanism butted against a 12 inch high sponson will have point loads 4 times higher that a sliding mechanism with 4 feet of bury. Thus it will have to be built stronger to accept the loads.

Of course if a stay is used loads are reduced. It is also true that a pivoting mechanism can we a triangular truss and thus be built much lighter than a cantilever sliding crossbeam setup.

It is nice to see a sliding mechansim in wood. I had not thought of that.

By the way, are the images copyrighted? or are free to be used on other websites?(thought it was polite to ask)

[keyhavenpotterer]

The guys at Solway Dory, who specialize in sailing canoes have also been producing small canoe triamarans for a number of years.

They have just built two new prototypes which have just been tested on expedition in the Sound of Jura on Scotlands wonderful west coast. the boats are 18' , two person design.

Short video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQxbSthMXlk&feature=player_embedded

The sailing canoe, also shown, is a Shearwater fitted with outrigger floats. The UK canoe sailing group use these when on Expedition.

The hull cartops with the floats sitting underneath the unturned hull.

Looks a good boat for your Everglades type events?

One of the sailors blogged the trip here

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/articles/steves-blog/


Brian

[slidercat]

Brian, thanks much for that video. I really like the new tris. One thing I found interesting is that they have open cockpits, despite being sailed in a pretty rough part of the world for open boats. When I was building Slider, I got a lot of feedback to the effect that open cockpits are inherently unsafe in small multis. It looks like maybe Janganda has a sealed cockpit, which I'm sure adds ultimately to safety, but makes it more difficult to have comfortable seating in a very small boat.

Is that a Hobie 16 rig? I really like the way the 8 foot platform duplicates the staying base of the rig-- really clever stuff!

[keyhavenpotterer]

Hi Ray,

Solway make their own rigs. Alloy tubes and a local sailmaker. Simple laced sails, reefed by rolling up the sail on the mast. These boats are so light they do not need full cut sails.

Although they have open cockpits they do have quite large decked buoyancy area fore and aft.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs427.ash1/23647_373308032422_116879172422_4239615_4326474_n. jpg

More details of their 16' Osprey tri,

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/sailing-canoes/osprey-outrigger-sailing-canoe/

Brian

[Dan St Gean]

Hi Ray,

Solway make their own rigs. Alloy tubes and a local sailmaker. Simple laced sails, reefed by rolling up the sail on the mast. These boats are so light they do not need full cut sails.

Although they have open cockpits they do have quite large decked buoyancy area fore and aft.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs427.ash1/23647_373308032422_116879172422_4239615_4326474_n. jpg

More details of their 16' Osprey tri,

http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/sailing-canoes/osprey-outrigger-sailing-canoe/

Brian


Aside from both being tris, those look very much canoe based. The seaclipper 20 looks like a scaled up windrider 17 or a scaled down Seaclipper--very much the powerful sailing tri. If I were to sail, I think I'd rather be in the 20. If I were to paddle I'm going for the canoe based version.

My current affair is somewhere in between the two. Gary Dierking's Tamanu also can be set up as a cat--which is the short term plan for this summer.

http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/f/1246332763/Leaving%20Port%20Mansfield%20.jpg

Dan

[slidercat]

Brian, I was actually talking about Janganda's rig.

That's the tack I took with Slider, buoyancy chambers fore and aft, and the cockpit open. I think it's pretty safe, at least for sheltered waters.

Dan, I believe the original ply Osprey prototypes were modeled after a trimaran design by Thomas Firth Jones, rather than canoes. It looks to me as if they'd fall over if sailed without their floats, but I could easily be wrong.,

[xsboats]

Brian, thanks much for that video. I really like the new tris. One thing I found interesting is that they have open cockpits, despite being sailed in a pretty rough part of the world for open boats. When I was building Slider, I got a lot of feedback to the effect that open cockpits are inherently unsafe in small multis. It looks like maybe Janganda has a sealed cockpit, which I'm sure adds ultimately to safety, but makes it more difficult to have comfortable seating in a very small boat.

Is that a Hobie 16 rig? I really like the way the 8 foot platform duplicates the staying base of the rig-- really clever stuff!
Ray, The Seaclipper 20 cockpit is is an open cockpit, and the seating is quite comfortable. It is impossible to flood the cockpit, since water drains out through the daggerboard trunk. There is also a drain through the transom for any small amounts of water that migrates to the aft end of the cockpit. We deliberately ran straight through a 4 foot powerboat wake and all water that came over the bow was gone in seconds.

[wtarzia]

Do/can the side seats flip aside so that the boat can be paddled if extended doldrums occur, or is the recommendation a small motor for such conditions? A fine achievable boat! (since I forgot to add that in my first post) -- Wade

[Dan St Gean]

Do/can the side seats flip aside so that the boat can be paddled if extended doldrums occur, or is the recommendation a small motor for such conditions? A fine achievable boat! (since I forgot to add that in my first post) -- Wade


I don't think so--although they could. The plan sheets on xs' page detail mch of the construction and they look fixed. However, they could be built to flip like Gary Dierking's hiking seats--only longer. I'm sure a small outboard would be preferable, but for events like the EC I'm sure it could be paddled for flat calms. However, in any wind at all you'd scoot with the recommended H16 rig--and there's a provision for a H18 or other beachcat rig built into the plan.

About the only thing I'm not crazy about is the dagger board. I liked Jim's initial centerboard idea better as I like sailing in SW Florida and S Texas for my beachcruising. I'm sure a resourceful builder could do it either way.

I like how the mast can remain stepped folded or unfolded. I like how the boat could be an 8x8 platform for camping afloat in areas where camping on the beach is prohibited.

The more designs like this the better if you ask me. I'm sold on the cat form for my summer Tamanu, but this design makes me think of a Tamanu meets Seaclipper 20 for the future. I gotta believe the tri would be a bit more stable with all that beam than a trailerable cat like I'm planning.

I see the kids in those shots and think of my little family.

Dan

[xsboats]

Dan, The sidedecks are fixed in place, but there is room to paddle between the sidedecks and the amas. Jim paddled us through the Bridge of Lions. We set up a 7'x7' tent on the platform and cut out the center of the floor over the cockpit. That provided full access to any thing stowed in the cockpit and allowed for sitting upright in the tent with our legs in the cockpit while allowing for a person to sleep in the tent on either sidedeck. The reason the daggerboard replaced the centerboard was due to the high cost of the aluminum plate that Jim had envisioned using in it's construction. There is a provision for a motormount alongside the starboard side of the aft cockpit. I am using a Hobie 18 rig for the shop's demo boat. Speaking of more designs like this, I have a few drawings of John's Seaclipper 24 up on the website now and they are available for download free of charge. It is the big sister of the SC20 but sports a cuddy cabin instead of the large open cockpit of the Sc20. Scott

[Dan St Gean]

I can see where Jim is going with the ruthless functionality of the SC 24, but I'd have to build it open with a dodger/tent. It would make a nice companion to my H18 rig though.

In other news, beams are laminated for my Tamanu cat cruiser. It sure is nice using the school's shop....

Dan

[xsboats]

Dan, Wait for another day or so. I'll have the drawings for the Seaclipper 24 DaySailer Version up on the website. They include provisions for two cockpits and a cuddy cabin that encloses a head. It is drawn with a Hobie 18 rig. What are you, psychic ? Will we be seeing Tamanu build shots soon? Scott

[paladin]

Why not stretch the boat and floats by 2-3 feet and use 2 Hobie rigs and make it a schooner.

[Dan St Gean]

Why not stretch the boat and floats by 2-3 feet and use 2 Hobie rigs and make it a schooner.

If you've seen the Jarcat series from OZ, you might remember the J7 with a pair of A cat mains on wingmasts. Pretty fast as I recall--but it's a cat.

The idea of a daysailing 24' tri is nice as the simplicity of the design might make the Farrier crowd do a double take or two. Camp cruising is all you'd get out of the design anyhow, so it might be nice to go with an integrated dodger/tent rather than a hard cabin.

Dan

[Dan St Gean]

What are you, psychic ? Will we be seeing Tamanu build shots soon? Scott

I've been reasonably inactive after the thrash to take my primered hot rod down to the Texas 200. We broke the main beam and had to limp a bit, but still finished. We (Brian, the builder of the other Tamanu hull) are looking to get her up and running for the summer in July.

I'm keeping a blog about the build at http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/Two-Dierking-Tamanu-Canoes
http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/Texas-200-report

but it hasn't seen an update in quite a while as the boats sat in my garage all winter. The short term plan is to get a 20'x8'6" boat ready for some summer fun and then get after it this winter. Brian is looking to make his Tamanu into an outrigger, and I'm thinking of going with a cat more permanently. I actually projected the Jaganda up on my whiteboard and drew it up with the folding system minus the central hull to see if it would be feasable to have a reasonably fast unfolding time and have a nice stable 10'-12' beam. Not sure how well it would work in a cat with the differing beam requirements.

Dan

[wtarzia]

The Janganga moves quite well, but 1000 pounds?! Where does the weight come from? Is it 3/8 ply? -- Wade

[LSaupe]

Any strong wind performance/handling to report? Is that a Hobie 16 or 18 ring on her?

[xsboats]

I no longer have the boat, so I am unable to do further trials until the next one is finished. The hulls are all 1/4" ply, the bottom planking and decks are 1/2" ply, and the mid-deck is 3/8" ply. The weight could be "heavily" influenced by the 20 gallons of epoxy used in her encapsulation and glassing. The rig pictured is of a Hobie 16. Note the lack of diamond stays, which are present on the H18 rig. I am using an 18 rig on hull # 2. I believe we can downsize all materials but the hull thickness and aft beam scantlings while still maintaining more than the needed strength.

[Dan St Gean]

I believe we can downsize all materials but the hull thickness and aft beam scantlings while still maintaining more than the needed strength.

That is sure to be the case. My Tamanu has 4mm sides and 6mm bottom and deck panels and that is pretty tough. I think Jim is looking for Hummer toughness with that boat as he mentions wanting to be able to beach on rocks and not worry about the boat. He mentions lining the hull with UHMWPE sheet like river dory's use (and Big Food too). Bomber is more important than light for him.

I'd still like to be able to maneuver the boat around and drag it up the beach--both items favor light construction. I suppose balancing light and tough is the designer's challenge in any build--or at least multis or beachable boats in general.

So scaling back on scantlings shouldn't be a problem here...but it won't be as durable. I like the idea of using the 18 rig here too as the 16 is a wet noodle compared to the 18. Not only does the 18 have diamonds, but it is a much larger section too. That is a bit confidence inspiring in challenging conditions.

XS, is your 18 mast a comp tip or solid? I need to keep my ear to the ground for an 18 all aluminum rig to make easier reefing.

Dan

[xsboats]

Dan, My H18 rig is the older all aluminum spar. I agree about keeping a beachable boat light, but remember Jim and Joe in Baja with the Windrider? It took all four of the group to bring each boat up onto the beach. By the time you are up to the design weight of 800 lbs. , how much harder is it to move a boat that is 1000 lbs. [I know, 200lbs harder!] I used to beach my 40 tri all the time. I just never tried to go up past the tideline. It is a boat ,after all, not a beach toy. The ability to pitch a tent onboard negates the need , in my opinion, to go very far on land. I think Jim's idea of a bombproof boat is one that will stand-up to his boathouse dock and roof ! Don't worry Jim, I've hit worse, but I'll not admit to what unless ordered to by a court of law.

[JimD]

Looks like a very buildable for the the diy'ers.

[Dan St Gean]

Dan, My H18 rig is the older all aluminum spar. I agree about keeping a beachable boat light, but remember Jim and Joe in Baja with the Windrider? It took all four of the group to bring each boat up onto the beach. By the time you are up to the design weight of 800 lbs. , how much harder is it to move a boat that is 1000 lbs. [I know, 200lbs harder!] I used to beach my 40 tri all the time. I just never tried to go up past the tideline. It is a boat ,after all, not a beach toy. The ability to pitch a tent onboard negates the need , in my opinion, to go very far on land. I think Jim's idea of a bombproof boat is one that will stand-up to his boathouse dock and roof ! Don't worry Jim, I've hit worse, but I'll not admit to what unless ordered to by a court of law.

I can think of lots of reasons to drag a boat around either in the yard or on the beach. Having the tide recede and then wanting to launch is one reason for light weight. A lumpy anchorage might be another reason. A steep to shore might be anogher reason. Regardless, I think the boat is cool and can be either bomber or lighter depending on what the builder wants to do. I'm loking forward to seeing the H18 rig on one. Will you be going with a dagger or centerboard on yours?

Dan

[xsboats]

I purchased the H18 rig for my SC20, but I will probably build a SC 24 Daysailer for my own use first. Always hard to find the time for your own boat, so who knows when that will happen. I'm partial to a daggerboard for numerous reasons , so that's what I always build for my own boats.

[Bill AU]

What rig will you use on your SC24DS Scott? If you'll use the H18 rig, do you know if the same rig can be used on a SC24MC?

[xsboats]

I would use a larger sailplan on the SC24 microcruiser. The weight will be more , plus all the additional stuff that accumulates in the cabin will require more to move it. I have rigs and sails available from a Sparkman and Stevens Rainbow 24 that I may use.

[Catnip]

I love the boat and the only thing stopping me buying plans is knowing if it can be folded/unfolded on the water. I have a tricky launchramp I would like to use but it will be very difficult launching unfolded. Ideally i need to motor into clear water and unfold (singlehanded). looking at the study plans it looks as if it could be done by a system of ropes and pulleys or just brute force from the cockpit! I was hoping that eniough was now known about the friction in the system to know if this seems likely. Many thanks, Dave

[donald branscom]

The mp 3 is 29 minutes long
Very weird....No photo of the man ....nothing. 29 minutes of him talking. HMMMMM<

[xsboats]

I love the boat and the only thing stopping me buying plans is knowing if it can be folded/unfolded on the water. I have a tricky launchramp I would like to use but it will be very difficult launching unfolded. Ideally i need to motor into clear water and unfold (singlehanded). looking at the study plans it looks as if it could be done by a system of ropes and pulleys or just brute force from the cockpit! I was hoping that eniough was now known about the friction in the system to know if this seems likely. Many thanks, Dave
Dave,The amas fold in and out easily in or out of the water.In the water, their floatation counters the minimal friction induced by gravity on the mating surfaces of the akas' overlapping beams. Feel free to contact me with any questions you have , Scott.

[JimD]

Looks like a brilliant trailerable tri.

http://www.seaworthysolutions.net/i/Seclipper%2020/DSCF0377_640x480.jpg

[Catnip]

Dave,The amas fold in and out easily in or out of the water.In the water, their floatation counters the minimal friction induced by gravity on the mating surfaces of the akas' overlapping beams. Feel free to contact me with any questions you have , Scott.


Thanks, Scott. I will be ordering plans from Jim's site soon. Dave

[xsboats]

Dave, Let me know if you have any questions during your build. I am in the Gulf of Mexico, running a fast boat involved in the oil-spill clean up, so any conversations about anything regarding boat building would be a welcome distraction, Scott

[LSaupe]

Any reports yet on strong wind performance? Havent seen much in the way up updates since the initial video.

Will a centerboard option be available?

[xsboats]

The centerboard option is available. I am back from the Gulf now and building a second Seaclipper 20. To date, no one else has reported completion of any other builds. I will report more upon launching and will be doing a follow-up video. The buyer of the prototype did not seem like the type to push the boat, so we've not received any heavy weather sailing reports.

[Bill AU]

G'day Scott,

Do you know of anyone else planing to build a SC24MC? As you know, I bought the first set of plans for a SC24MC but, due to personal problems, have not got to building her yet but, I plan to start building just as soon as I can. Most likely in early January...I hope ;) I still have the 30' rig and sails from the Cat...along with all the fittings and I plan on using most of that gear on the SC24M...We'll see how things work-out :)

Bill AU

[xsboats]

Good to see you back online, Bill. J.M. says several sets of plans have been sold, but I've yet to hear of any builds completed of either the SC 20 or the SC 24's. I'm building another 20 for my own use right now, in between a Searunner 34 rebuild and building spars and other renovations on a George Buehler Dragonfly. How bout some photos from you guys out there that are building Seaclippers ?

[LSaupe]

Scott:

Any updates on hull #2?

[John Goley]

Scott

It has been good talking to you! Especially when you make a wrong call.:)
You can do that any time you wish!|:)

You mentioned that:

"I believe we can downsize all materials but the hull thickness and aft beam scantlings while still maintaining more than the needed strength."

Do you mean that the stingers/glue strips be decreased in thickness and width?:confused:
Or what do you mean by "we can downsize all materials but the hull thickness"?:confused:

And how much decrease in the forward beam scantlings are you planning? 2"X10"? or even 2"X8"?

By the way, did you get the emails I sent you about Ama volume, and 3/16" Vectran 12 stran on ebay?

Last question how far along are you with your own Seaclipper 20?

It is good to hear that Karen and the kids are so excited about the boat. They must be pushing you to finish! :)

John Goley
(the south western Colorado guy)

[xsboats]

John, We should have Seaworthy Solution's boats #2 & #3 sailing by mid July. We will be doing more videos then with both boats and a couple of Windrider 17's . #3 is actually Seaclipper 20 Sail # 28 . I would love to hear about the other 25 that are being built . Other than the prototype, we have not heard of any others launching. Send any pics you care to share to me at scott at seaworthysolutions dot net . I have decreased the hull thickness from 1/4" to 4 mm on my amas ,the decks from 1/2" to 9mm , and the frames from 3/4"x 1 1/4" to 3/4" x 3/4" ,but will refrain from doing so on other boats until I can spend time on the water with her. The decks, hull panels , and bottoms have also been glassed with 4oz finish cloth inside and out , with additional polypropylene cloth to be added to the bottoms. The plywood is a combination of Hydrocore [meranti] , and okoume . Check out World Panel Products , as they have a great selection of marine ply.My beams are laminated and their finished dimensions are yet to be determined until I do more testing. I am also pulling weight out of the ends of the main hull by eliminating the mid deck there and installing a few ring frames. All of these modifications are being done through consultation with John and Jim and should be not be considered until they can be proven to not detract from the structural integrity of the design. According to Jim , the ama floatation is at 100% of the total displacement. As to Karen and the kids, they are excited about the boat , but are pushing for me to spend more time up at the house. Work has taken all of my time up , with a 34' Searunner restoration running at the same time as the two builds. [3 stems, a new mini-keel, new wing decks, a re-power, 2 rollerfurlers, hull,deck, and cockpit paint and more over the last 6 months]

[John Goley]

Scott

You are a busy man!
If your downsizing works well, do you think John might redraw or amend the plans? I have not even bought my set yet but have been emailing back and forth with him. I have to find a rental in Farmington, NM and am finding it hard to find a place that could take the 24 foot build table. But John said I could get by with less than 24', maybe even less than 20'.

I have so much going on right now, short sale on the house, Looking for a rental, flying to OK to pick up all the Nacra hardware, packing and moving to Farmington, etc that I am going to wait on plan purchase till your boat is done and Jim and John OK the modifications.

I sure hope your light weight-er will work. But then with your H18 rig you are adding more weight. Maybe you can come in at 750#!?!?

Thanks for the tip on World Panel Products but I think I have enough okoume already. Of course I also have all that quarter sawn WRC that you covet.:p When I get back to Sulphur OK I have a 17 foot WRC strip built main hull that I will take a Jig saw to and salvage as much flat panel stuff out of her as I can. I would rather have the SC20 that I know works then try to finish a self designed tri that no longer will meet my needs.

1511
1512

The hull is glassed inside and out and is so light that I can almost lift her myself. She could have been a real flyer, but it was designed with Nacra hull amas, well above the water line and could never have been an "amphibious camp site". We would have gotten sea sick anytime one of us would have rolled over. I like Jim's idea of both amas in the water at rest.

Wish us luck in finding a rental.

Thanks Scott for such a complete reply. I hope your knees will stand up to all this work!

John

[John Goley]

By the way, when is this thread going to change from:

Jim Brown’s Coming Seaclipper 20 trimaran (the “Janganda”)

To: Jim Brown’s Seaclipper 20 trimaran :confused:

It is not coming, It has arrived! Y> :) |:) |;)

John :D

[LSaupe]

Scott:

You mentioned on a thread about bringing one up to Maine for display (static and sailing) at the Wooden Boat School.

Will you be posting dates and locations you might stop at along your trip up?

Best of luck with your work load.

Larry S.

[xsboats]

I have not firmed up my travel plans yet , but stops will probably include one on the Chesapeake Bay and one on Long Island Sound. I am open to suggestions for launching sites .

[Woxbox]

Sandy Point State Park (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/southern/sandypoint.asp) is a great place to launch a boat for a daysail. Direct access to the bay from a very well protected launch with lots of ramps. Also, a nice park with a beach.

If you have a tent along, you can camp at Elk Neck State Park, (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/central/elkneck.asp) which also has a launch ramp up at the very top end of the bay.

[wtarzia]

Lighthouse Point, New Haven. Good ramp, also a small sandy beach nearby, and a lovely lighthouse for true New England mood. $10 launch fee for the day. -- Wade

[wtarzia]

Lighthouse Point, New Haven. Good ramp, also a small sandy beach nearby, and a lovely lighthouse for true New England mood. $10 launch fee for the day. -- Wade

--- Sorry, I have to take that back with new information. This City of New Haven park no longer offers a day-fee for launching boats. And out of towners have to pay for a $130 seasonal pass PER BOAT (the sticker goes on your boat, not your car). -- Wade

[LSaupe]

Scott:

How did the course and demo's go up in Maine this past week at the school?

[xsboats]

I did not go. I have 2 SC20 builds going in the shop right now, a Searunner 34 trimaran rebuild in progress ,and am getting geared up to start building a Searunner 44 cat in Sept. The course is in it's second week right now, and hopefully we will see some good video footage from Jim and John .

[Clinton B Chase]

I'm planning to head over to WB School to see the finished Seaclipper Jim Brown and John Marples are building with a class. I'll try to get the photos put up.

[xsboats]

I heard last night from one of my clients, who is also a student in the class, that they completed the construction of all 3 hulls and the boat is only lacking a rig and paint. I'm looking forward to seeing your pics, and hope that you will post some of them on the Seaclipper Facebook page as well, Scott

[Carl Cramer]

She just launched, and she's beautiful. Too bad Irene is heading this way...

[LSaupe]

Some pics and a video at www.smalltrimarans.com (http://www.smalltrimarans.com)

[ModernMultihulls]

FYI, Seaclipper owners/builders/enthusiasts have another resource to checkout at http://www.seaclippertrimarans.org - it's VERY new, but signup and give it some time...

[xsboats]

Larry, We are currently finishing hull#36 , the Wooden Boat School boat , and hull#28 at the shop. #2 is still in pieces , as clients boats have taken priority over our own shop boat. #36 will then go to Key Largo , where she will be sailed by the students who built her . . Depending on time and work load, we may accompany her with #28. There will be other tris there at the end of the Everglades Challenge , so we should see firsthand how the SC20 sailing performance compares with other boats.We put a short ama build video on YouTube and will also video the seatrials of #28 in a few weeks. Pray for wind !
Any reports yet on strong wind performance? Havent seen much in the way up updates since the initial video.

Will a centerboard option be available?

[George Ray]

So glad to Jim Brown doing well !!

http://seaworthysolutions.tumblr.com/page/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QqA_aM8yA8

[LSaupe]

If you havent heard it yet, here is a audio clip of Jim's stronger wind perf of Mice Nuts.

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=7695#more-7695

[wtarzia]

Interesting comments about the flexing akas and steadier motion and sail aerodynamics. Reminds me of the wide thin crossbeams on the Berques' single outrigger that crossed the Atlantic a few years ago -- those beams were *very* flexible. -- Wade

[LSaupe]

Here is the video portion of this.

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=7712#more-7712