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purri
01-01-2010, 03:45 AM
Alright, who did it? I am quite happy to let the sundry Paulines have their say as they be can be hoist with their own petard.

FWIW OZ is a denialist society writ small and all it needs is an itch and almost every gubbah/ kartiya/ wadjella/ balanda scratches.

FWIW this is a denialist society best described in the terms and dialogue as the "Great Australian Silence". (google and ponder eh?)

Let them have their say and I'll pay them out, all and sundry.

(FWIW there are abt 5 branches of the KKK that I know of here)

seanz
01-01-2010, 03:55 AM
It wasn't a very cheerful thread to start with, so it was probably the Dingo man himself.

So, no understanding without communication, eh?

Larks
01-01-2010, 04:13 AM
(FWIW there are abt 5 branches of the KKK that I know of here)

???:eek:Can you elaborate on that Purri? What should we know about them??

Wild Dingo
01-01-2010, 05:01 AM
I deleted it... simple it was pointless and turning into a playground for idiots without a clue so I pulled it end of story

Now back to your usual bull****... me Im flying out tomorrow to be with my family cant stand this being so far from the kids when they need me so have fun with it Purri :rolleyes:

PeterSibley
01-01-2010, 05:05 AM
Not were to find them ,for a start .

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:06 AM
Alright, who did it? I am quite happy to let the sundry Paulines have their say as they be can be hoist with their own petard.

FWIW OZ is a denialist society writ small and all it needs is an itch and almost every gubbah/ kartiya/ wadjella/ balanda scratches.

FWIW this is a denialist society best described in the terms and dialogue as the "Great Australian Silence". (google and ponder eh?)

Let them have their say and I'll pay them out, all and sundry.

(FWIW there are abt 5 branches of the KKK that I know of here)

Nah... its a revisionist society.

PeterSibley
01-01-2010, 05:11 AM
You've got an arguement there son .

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:15 AM
Why is that Peter?

PeterSibley
01-01-2010, 05:21 AM
Not with me Ian ,I'm another whitefella , I just think Purri might disagree with you .

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:27 AM
I don't know where Shane's thread ended up and what "sundry Paulines" were supposed to have said, but I have some sympathy for some of the issues raised by Shane.

That is, issues related to responsibility of the individual, issues related to juvenile justice and so on. It has nothing to do with race, although it seems that this thread is implying that. Shane related it to his own ancestry, which as he noted is shared with that of the offender. His choice to do that. Nothing racist there. Shane's work as a counsellor has given him a fair bit of background in the area. Perhaps if people listened to his main message, rather than looking for something to criticise they might actually learn something.

Incidentally, my nephew got mugged a week or so ago in Kempsey. Knocked out with a club - teeth kicked out, everything on him stolen, keys, phone, wallet, even the shirt off his back. There's a lot of it going on up there at the moment. Cops aren't really interested.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:28 AM
Not with me Ian ,I'm another whitefella , I just think Purri might disagree with you .

What's race got to do with it?

Larks
01-01-2010, 05:34 AM
I've been mostly unable to spend much time here for a bit so missed whatever Purri is referring to - I gather it was somthing that grew from the thread on the gutless attack on Shanes' family though???

purri
01-01-2010, 05:37 AM
Branches of the K: Sydney, Lismore, Townsville, Perth, Alice Springs so far.
Probably Fitzroy X, Cooktown, Darwin and other rural watering holes where populist opinion rules. Doubtless there are many more.

The facts remain of Dingo's thread and the majority of responses: one offender, all condemned.

Dingo response: Heat and kitchen.

Tell me folks, ever hear of the bashing of 2 and an attempted lynching of a 3rd local fella dragged behind a car near Mungindi abt 6 years back?
Or the shooting of a Townsville fella last year?
Or John Pat?
Or the frockers who ran over a few locals camped in the Todd River last year?
The 2 gubbah culprits got suspended sentences of 18 months and good behaviour bonds.
Typical.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:37 AM
Yeah Greg. Shane had a potshot at the inability of the system to do anything with miscreant aboriginal youths, slaps on the wrist, no follow-up, etc. I'm not sure if purri is calling Shane a "Pauline" or whether he's reserved that for someone else?

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:46 AM
Re the Great Australian Silence....

.... a 1958 paper where Stanner had given an even more outspoken account of native motives in the Fitzmaurice River district further south which, by the 1930s, was completely deserted of its once substantial Aboriginal population. They had not been dispossessed by, or even had any conflict with, pastoralists or farmers because up to that time the region remained unsettled by whites. Instead, Aborigines had begun to drift away from the district around 1900, some to cattle stations to the south, to the east and across the Western Australian border, others to the little white settlements that dotted the north-south highway, while some had gone as far afield as Darwin and Wyndham. The frontier history of this region was not a story of invasion and resistance, but one in which the Aborigines were willingly, often eagerly, seduced by the attractions of white society. Stanner wrote:

The evidence, and discussions with natives who had lived there as children, satisfied me that the aboriginal explanation is correct. They say that their appetites for tobacco and, to a lesser extent, for tea became so intense that neither man nor woman could bear to be without. Jealousy, ill will and violence arose over the small amounts which came by gift and trade. The stimulants, if I may call them such, were of course not the only, or the first, European goods to reach them: probably iron goods were the first, but it was the stimulants that precipitated the exodus. Individuals, families and parties of friends simply went away to places where the avidly desired things could be obtained. The movement had phases and fluctuations, but it was always a one-way movement.[8] (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/#_ftn8)

Stanner said voluntary movements of this kind occurred widely across Aboriginal Australia. Although in his Boyer lectures of 1968 Stanner coined the phrase ‘the Great Australian Silence’ to describe the failure of historians to write Aborigines into the Australian story, in 1958 he accused them of over-dramatising the issue. ‘Our models of explanation have been based either on the dramatic secondary causes ― violence, disease, neglect, prejudice ― or on the structure of aboriginal society, or both.’ In emphasising these factors, he said, historians had failed to incorporate into their explanations just how powerful a magnet white society was, and how many Aborigines had vied with one another to join it.

Eventually, for every aborigine who, so to speak, had Europeans thrust upon him, at least one other had sought them out. More would have gone to European centres sooner had it not been that their way was often barred by hostile aborigines. As late as the early 1930s I was able to see for myself the battles between the encroaching myalls and weakening, now-sedentary groups who had monopolized European sources of supply and work. The encroachers used every claim of right they had ― kinship, affinity, friendship, namesake-relationship, trade partnership ― to get and keep a toehold.

...... Robert Manne’s introduction to The Dreaming and Other Essays avoids this chain of events to pretend that, before the white man arrived, Aborigines enjoyed an idyllic existence full of communal singing and dancing in the firelight. ‘Joy and jollity are two of the words most commonly encountered in Stanner’s writing on the Aborigines,’ Manne writes. Their existence, he says, was ‘in no way reminiscent’ of Thomas Hobbes’s portrayal of savage life as ‘nasty, brutish and short’.[19] (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/#_ftn19) It is difficult to know what might have led Manne to an interpretation so at odds with the text of this essay. For Stanner’s description of the social consequences of tribal vengeance on the Daly River in 1932 remains one of the classic eyewitness accounts of nothing less than a Hobbesian state of nature:

In 1932, two intertribal coalitions existed which were in acute conflict. The surface of life was, for the most part, peaceable enough but under the surface something like a state of terror existed. All the talk was of warlockry and poison. The death of any man or man child (females did not count) was thought to be evidence of the human use of dark powers, and a divination usually followed, with a plot of talion. No one dared to walk about alone. To do so invited speculation about evil motive, or risked the assassin’s spear. An unescorted woman was usually raped. …

These fears and tensions were almost exclusively between the two intertribal coalitions. Durgumam had an unconquerable hatred of the Marithiel and Maringar. So too did Melbyyerk, the most intelligent and detached Aborigine I have ever known. Neither Nangiomeri nor Mulluk Mulluk would intermarry with the hated tribes, and I am nearly sure they did not trade. They needed each other at initiations and they would then intermingle, but cautiously, and fights were always likely to occur.

… there was no effective European law interposed between the murk of fear, suspicion, and hatred that lay between the warring coalitions. The white farmers kept a minimum of discipline and in some sense the farms were sanctuaries too. At night, natives would often come out of the darkness and ask to sleep nearby, leaving when daylight came. It was unnecessary to ask for an explanation. Marabut, my main Marithiel informant, was too frightened to leave if kept inadvertently after sundown. Belweni, the Wagaman, was thrown into consternation by a footprint he could not recognise. Melbyerk, when on the southern or ‘Brinken’ bank, would try to defecate at night so as to be within the glow of my campfire. A group of saltwater blacks who came to one initiation sat sleepless, under my own eyes, throughout a whole night.[20] (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/#_ftn20)

http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2009/5/bill-stanner-and-the-end-of-aboriginal-high-culture


Tell me again about the Great Australian Silence

purri
01-01-2010, 05:52 AM
^ Dingo posted a thread on a gutless physical attack on his family and subsequent theft of moneyn by a youth who then picked up 3 of his mates and crashed the car he had stolen. Result: 4 in hospital. Sundry others joined in the hue and cry and did a general rant abt "all the guilty", thus conflating all with an individual's actions.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 05:58 AM
Or the frockers who ran over a few locals camped in the Todd River last year?
The 2 gubbah culprits got suspended sentences of 18 months and good behaviour bonds.
Typical.


This is starting to sound like another one of those 40" Powerful Owls.

Got a link to a story about the sentence?

Here's one to the case

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/17/2774624.htm?site=news

and the latest piece on the case says.



Five Alice Springs men accused of murder will stay in custody while their committal hearing is adjourned for two months.

Glen Swain, Anton Kloeden, Timothy Hird, Scott Doody and Joshua Spears are facing a committal charged with the murder of 33-year-old Kwementyaye Ryder in July.

The hearing has already run for a week and a police witness was expected to give evidence this morning, but that has been put off due to illness.

Defence lawyers have also requested further time to review the medical history of the dead man before a pathologist gives evidence.

The committal has now been adjourned to resume in February next year.

None of the men have applied for bail and all will stay in custody.


http://abcscience.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/21/2777428.htm?site=local

Funny how remanding the men in custody for two months has become evidence supporting the existence of the KKK

Sorry purri, but facts are preferred to fiction.

purri
01-01-2010, 05:59 AM
^ Ah hah,

More Quadrant revisionism. Looks like Serbia, Bosnia etc all over but on a smaller scale.

My extended family histories put a somewhat wider context on intimate relationships but in short the thrust of Stanner's lectures was that the "originals" were airbrushed/ whitewashed out of the collective consciousness as an "inconvienent fact" in favour of the "Manifest Destiny" as some Yanks put it.

purri
01-01-2010, 06:02 AM
Fact: The K exists in OZ. Google it eh? EOS.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 06:03 AM
Your thoughts on the Fitzmaurice River situation? Its an interesting one.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 06:10 AM
Fact: The K exists in OZ. Google it eh? EOS.

Well this will be a stimulating conversation about substantive issues, won't it?

Of course there is racism in this society. Show me a society where there isn't racism and I'll show you a monoculture.

I'll counter your "the K exists in Oz" with "Oz is a tolerant multicultural society"... and we'll both be right. Won't we?

PeterSibley
01-01-2010, 06:18 AM
^ Ah hah,

More Quadrant revisionism. Looks like Serbia, Bosnia etc all over but on a smaller scale.

.

A very long time ago I worked in a place with Munkan and Tyore inhabitants , these two mobs had traditionally not spent very much time near each other ....there were very old feuds ,grandfather feuds .Hatfields and the McCoys ...not quite , but bad sometimes .It would have been a lot better without the town .

skuthorp
01-01-2010, 07:14 AM
You're a little too sensitive here purri. And no I don't dispute the treatment of the original inhabitants in the past or racism still exaunt. But violence needs a sharp punishment and a public one, hence my suggestion for white, black or brindle. Begging nthe question of course of the communities inadequate funding for the mentally disturbed amongst us.

Larks
01-01-2010, 08:32 AM
Branches of the K: ...... Alice Springs so far.
Probably ............ Darwin and other rural watering holes where populist opinion rules.

Who knows what goes on in Sydney but I think it's doubtful in Alice Purri, I've lived in both Alice and Darwin since I was 17 until very recently, I reckon I had a pretty good understanding of the NT and I just don't see the KKK there. There were claims of it in Darwin about 12 years ago when someone started a business called Kevs Kar Kleaning (KKK) and the news of that stirred the topic up but as much as it was investigated, no one ever seemed able to substantiate it or find anyone involved.

As for Alice, it is mostly Indig' owned now. Most (indig') trouble comes from the drunks and miscreants that have been kicked out of their own communities because they aren't tollerated there. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of whites causing plenty of strife as well and that is also not to say that there isn't racial intollerance about as well.

But all of my mates, football team mates and opposition teams, work colleagues etc were anything from full blood (black or white), half cast, quarter cast, 1/32nd class, 1/2 Chinese 1/2 Blackfella, Philipino/Vietnamese/Blackfella/Paddy, you name it the mix in the NT is it. It pays to be very racially comfortable and tollerant living in the NT or you'd really have very few friends.

From a personal perspective - (at the risk of stirring the possum, which I'm certainly not intending by saying this), although I've witnessed incidents on either side of the fence, my own direct personal experiences with racism have been pretty brutal and directed towards me rather than the other way around. Not just in Alice and Darwin, but in Echuca when growing up.

Keith Wilson
01-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Would one of you fellows translate "Pauline" for the yanks? Thanks.

The Bigfella
01-01-2010, 10:03 AM
It has everything to do with Pauline Hanson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson

In the context used above, probably an attempt at a slur.

Mrleft8
01-01-2010, 10:12 AM
AH! I thought it was a miss-spell of "Praline"......

Phillip Allen
01-01-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm not concerned with the perps...I'm concerned with the shocked and dismayed victims...I want them to be alright...I wish there were something I could do

SMARTINSEN
01-01-2010, 03:11 PM
It has everything to do with Pauline Hanson.


Maybe she should be doing a two-step with Tom Delay.

purri
01-02-2010, 05:13 AM
As I posted; he who did the crime do the time. EOFS. The facts are that a few US suth'rn families emigrated to OZ after the US anti segegration activities of the 50's and bought land around Moree in NSW; beginning large scale cotton farming. They were interviewed abt 1960 and espoused much of their ideologies abt "supremacy" thus being the base for (continuing) KKK activities and their ilk. The Charlie Perkins etc "rides" of the mid 60's highlighted the overt racism that existed at the time. Thus much of this pre-existing antipathy to "originals" went underground and exists today in a variety of manifestations.

OZ has matured somewhat since those times BUT there is still an undercurrent of hostility based on the notion of "special treatment".

For a reality check do a search on any "race proud" OZ web site of which there are few and ponder the realities of that which produced the "anti Arab" riots at Cronulla abt 2007.

Pardon me BF but I failed to edit the suspended sentences as an addendum to the Mungindi matter. Sorry for the stuff up.

As for A.S. then there is a divide between those permanent residents in the town camps and their countrymen who due to circumstance have been stranded from returning to their outstations and yet those again who have been banished from country due to activities.

Apart from which the "dominant hierarchy" polices Todd Mall and surrounds to keep the tourists rubes happy and from 2004 when I was last there talking to rellos and from subsequent convos it hasn't changed.

There exists a happy medium in mixed identity situations but to gloss this as a universal sitrep is a load of crap!

The Bigfella
01-02-2010, 07:00 AM
The facts are that a few US suth'rn families emigrated to OZ after the US anti segegration activities of the 50's and bought land around Moree in NSW; beginning large scale cotton farming. They were interviewed abt 1960 and espoused much of their ideologies abt "supremacy" thus being the base for (continuing) KKK activities and their ilk. The Charlie Perkins etc "rides" of the mid 60's highlighted the overt racism that existed at the time. Thus much of this pre-existing antipathy to "originals" went underground and exists today in a variety of manifestations.

Given that the most prominent of these families was a client of mine for a fair while, and I shared a number of trips away, meals, beers, etc with the patriarch, it sure went a long way underground. I never saw or heard anything remotely connected to such rubbish. I dare say though, that if you compared a lot of the attitudes held by a wide range of the population 50 years ago, you'd find a raft of differences to the attitudes of today.



For a reality check do a search on any "race proud" OZ web site of which there are few and ponder the realities of that which produced the "anti Arab" riots at Cronulla abt 2007.


Care to explain the difference w.r.t. the marauding mobs in Kempsey at the moment?



a load of crap!



Well, that's something we can agree on.

Larks
01-02-2010, 08:48 AM
.


As for A.S. then there is a divide between those permanent residents in the town camps and their countrymen who due to circumstance have been stranded from returning to their outstations and yet those again who have been banished from country due to activities.

Apart from which the "dominant hierarchy" polices Todd Mall and surrounds to keep the tourists rubes happy and from 2004 when I was last there talking to rellos and from subsequent convos it hasn't changed.

There exists a happy medium in mixed identity situations but to gloss this as a universal sitrep is a load of crap!

I don't understand where you are coming from here Purri or really what you are trying to say.

The layers and problems in Alice are so complex and difficult that I dare not try to start on them here, it is one of those conversations to have face to face, but the work being done there to try and resolve the problems by the likes of the night patrol guys is nothing short of heroic.

Who do you think are the dominant heirarchy there? Alice Springs is very much troubled by the presence of extreme alcoholism and substance abuse (drugs, petrol, glue) amongst the Indig' population in the town camps there. Most of the real problem makers have been kicked out of their own communities and move into and along the Todd river. As the communities have sharpened up with keeping booze and petrol out, so has the problem in Alice grown. I moved there in 1979 and it was a terrific place to live, I now don't really like to go back and see what has happened there.

Those people are certainly not a tourist attraction but their presence is such a confrontation to many people visiting the Alice that they appear as such.

How much time have you spent in Alice Springs and who are your rellies there? I'd most likely know them.

purri
01-02-2010, 07:45 PM
A few in health services there for some years. Jilpia Jones (Walmajarri) who was the trachoma team opthalmic nurse with Fred Hollows for many years, Grogan (ex QLD fella) etc. Others at Cairns, Wujal, Fitroy X, Balgo, Brewarrina, Bourke, Cunnamulla, Kowanyama, Townsville, Dubbo and Sydney.

I've done a few years around the traps (am 62) so I have some ideas of what historical and current problems there are countrywide; incl Kempsey, B'ville and surrounds.

The Bigfella
01-05-2010, 03:05 AM
I've done a few years around the traps (am 62) so I have some ideas of what historical and current problems there are countrywide; incl Kempsey, B'ville and surrounds.


I had a bit of a funny discussion with a mate yesterday. Young chap, officer in the military - doing quite well. He asked after my wife. I mentioned she'd just driven up to Kempsey.... "you've gotta watch out for the blackfella's up there" says he. "Funny you should mention that" says I.... and told him the tale of my nephew. Only "funny" 'cause he's a "blackfella" (his description). He, like I, grew up on the north coast.

I just spoke to the nephew, who is on the mend. Yeah, it was the local mob... not blow-ins that hospitalised him. A cowardly attack from behind with some sort of bat. Cops doing nothing. If it was an Irish tourist in Bondi, it would have been all over the news.

PeterSibley
01-05-2010, 03:25 AM
I asked my Dad what he thought of blackfellas when I was a young bloke .Dad spent a lot of time on the wallaby ,born 1908 ,kinda old school ...

"Just like anyone else ,some good ,some bad " .I'm sticking to that .

The Bigfella
01-05-2010, 03:55 AM
Of course Peter. Same with the human race the world over. 7% or so rotten apples, 65% or so always for the common good.... the rest can go either way, according to how they think they are being treated.

The problem in Oz at the moment is things are not working as they should. I had a discussion with a pollie about it recently. He was lamenting that we don't have the answers at the moment. I'll be writing him a note sometime later this year.

seanz
01-05-2010, 04:15 AM
it was the local mob...

Sometimes it's not about race, sometimes it's because they're the locals.

Good to hear he's on the mend.