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oldsub86
12-29-2009, 09:53 PM
So, let me tell you about a story set forth in our daily newspaper in the past couple of days.

The story is essentially about an auto accident that resulted in the death of a pretty 22 year old blonde girl. The report states that her boyfriend was driving a Toyota 4Runner. It was evening or night, so dark, it had recently snowed and the roads were not at all good, and in many places treacherous. He had just passed another vehicle and upon steering back into the right lane, managed to lose control of the vehicle and it rolled several times. There were 3 people in the vehicle and all were wearing seatbelts but the young lady was killed.

Now, what really irks me, is that the slant of the story is that it was a result of his hitting "black ice" and essentially blamed the whole thing on poor road conditions related to the recent storm.

I don't understand why the twit of a boyfriend could not understand and appreciate that the roads would be slippery and that he should slow down and not drive at speeds that he might use in summer on bare pavement. My personal opinion is that he ought to be charged with causing her death due to his own stupidity and recklessness. It is fortunate that he did not cause more havoc. The car that he passed managed to avoid the whole mess.

The newspaper's take on the whole thing is just too politically correct. They don't appear to want to blame anyone for anything - unless it is a politician - in which case they do not seem to be able to do anything right.

My fear is that it reinforces in the minds of the rest of the dolts driving out there, that is is ok to drive recklessly and discount road conditons. "The paper said it was not his fault so I guess I can just drive like an idiot too." sort of implication.

Before I climb down off my soap box, I am reminded of another story from maybe 5 years ago that went on at great lengths about a fine fellow who was killed in an accident on the south perimeter highway during a similar storm. He had been a hockey coach for kids and was apparently loved and respected and the story was about what a loss it was to the community. My take, upon reading the story, was that he might have been nice but must have been terribly stupid and reckless when it came to driving. He managed to lose control of a minivan and cross through a fairly wide median deep with snow and plow into an oncoming semi if memory serves to be correct. If he had had enough sense to slow down and drive for conditions he would likely be with us today.

So the reason for my story was essentially to ask. Do you get the same sort of reporting where you are, or is this some sort of local problem with the policy of our newspaper?

Randy in the slippery north

botebum
12-29-2009, 10:02 PM
What's a 'newspaper'? I've heard my parents speak of them too.

Doug

Woxbox
12-29-2009, 10:15 PM
...and if it someone else driving who wasn't taken to be so young and innocent, and had lost control and slid into the pretty young thing's car killing her, it would be that driver's fault through and through.

Virtually every newspaper story written is loaded with unquestioned assumptions. But then so is most all political discourse these days, and heck, just about everywhere else you look.

Written a letter to the editor yet?

Ian McColgin
12-29-2009, 10:42 PM
The paper states the story as factual. It obviously provided adequate information for you to draw one judgemental conclusion. It may also have provided enough for others to come to a different judgement. It's in the nature of factual truth that it may admit of several different meanings or judgements some of which may be more true or more importantly true than others.

I happen to have driven for over four and a half decades with no violations and no accidents and I've sailed with no human casualties for even longer but I learned from Dad who got through a half century of flight, including combat, with no loss that grace and luck are a lot of this. Like Dad, I put a lot into anticipation, prescience even, but like Dad I am not about to judge another who had either ill luck or an unfortunate moment.

I think it's daring for an individual to take of righteous judgement that God will deliver sure enough, but I think the newspaper does well to provide the information and leave the judgementalism to those who dare.

oldsub86
12-29-2009, 10:54 PM
but I think the newspaper does well to provide the information and leave the judgementalism to those who dare.

I would agree with you but my point was that they did not do that. They did not just give facts and let one decide what one wanted. They went out of their way to make it appear that it was not the fault of the driver. That is what I objected to.

Randy

Ian McColgin
12-29-2009, 11:06 PM
You did not provide the news story as written so I took your account of that news story as an accurate account of the newstory. That account gave the information that one might have anticipated black ice, though of course the point of black ice is that, unlike ice on a bridge, it's hard to anticipate. But the info was, if your account is accurate, there for you to read and recount to us. Seems to me that's objective reporting and it's right to leave the judgement, that nice feeling of being smarter than the other driver, to the reader.

Of course if your account is biased and inaccurate as to what the paper wrote, I could find reason to change my opinion.

bobbys
12-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Although its not likely it is possible that because of the snow the first car was slowing down,Perhaps even to pull over.

I am a very slow driver and often pull over to let others pass.

The first car could have been pulling over to talk on a cell phone.

Lacking any fact that the boy was speeding i dont see enough facts to indict him .

The first rig might have been driving unnecessarily slow causing a following driver to pass when otherwise one may not want to..

I have had Grannies in front of me going 20 mph forcing me to pass and i never pass anyone.

Tragic yes, But just because hes young is not enough to convict him.

I also notice it said they were buckled in so he or someone must have asked for everyone to buckle up, Not something i see a lot of young people do.

Would it make a difference if the girl was Pretty or Ugly?

Captain Blight
12-29-2009, 11:57 PM
Would it make a difference if the girl was Pretty or Ugly?
Absolutely. Remember Jessica Lynch? Of course you do. Remember the name of the black girl who was in the convoy with her, and also taken prisoner? Neither do I.

rbgarr
12-30-2009, 12:19 AM
Maybe a link to the newspaper stories would help us.

purri
12-30-2009, 02:07 AM
"Black" ice, boyfriend and blonde; all the elements are there.

ripley699
12-30-2009, 02:28 AM
Old sub,
I am sorry that you posted this so late .I have to hit the sack .
I find it unfortunate for you that ,other than me ,you are faced with a bunch of left wing morons,who only want to stick up for the driver ,who was obviously wrong,given the information you gave. They tend to want to know everything,including the astrological signs of the driver before they can completely understand what happened.
It doesn't matter to them that a youg guy with his girl friend decided the car in front of him was going too slow and that he would pass them.it didn't matter that it was cold nor that the road conditions were poor . He deided to pass and he hit black ice and the young lady with him died ,,,they all want to give him the benefit of the doubt ..good thing it wasn't their daughter,,they would have hired every lawyer in the land..
I am sorry for the loss to you and your community,
They don't understand.I apologize for them.






\

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 03:48 AM
"Black" ice, boyfriend and blonde; all the elements are there.
Um. Black ice is what forms when water vapor freezes on the roadway. It is almost invisible but very, very slick. You get it a lot in areas where advection fog forms as the temperature drops below freezing; also at intersections in towns, where car exhaust cools and settles onto the road, freezing there.

Not actually in point of fact a racist term at all.

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 03:50 AM
Old sub,
I am sorry that you posted this so late .I have to hit the sack .
I find it unfortunate for you that ,other than me ,you are faced with a bunch of left wing morons,who only want to stick up for the driver ,who was obviously wrong,given the information you gave. They tend to want to know everything,including the astrological signs of the driver before they can completely understand what happened.
It doesn't matter to them that a youg guy with his girl friend decided the car in front of him was going too slow and that he would pass them.it didn't matter that it was cold nor that the road conditions were poor . He deided to pass and he hit black ice and the young lady with him died ,,,they all want to give him the benefit of the doubt ..good thing it wasn't their daughter,,they would have hired every lawyer in the land..
I am sorry for the loss to you and your community,
They don't understand.I apologize for them.






\
If I told you that water was wet, you'd probably say that I was claiming it used to be dry before Bush took office.

Sweet Jeebus, man, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and a spade is just a m****rf***in' shovel. Give it a rest. If you can't give it a rest, at least don't call me a moron then misspell an eighth of your post, or use the scattergun approach to punctuation.

ripley699
12-30-2009, 04:23 AM
Hi Old Sub,
Again i apologize for the idiots here. Ocaasionally i type fast and this computer,on loan to me,is kinda foreighn to me.i may appear to make a mistake now and then,but its only a typo.
I see tht Capt. blight has brought up old "George bush " again. Once again ,just as ALL other left wing wackos, he attempts to cloud what I have said,both by bringing in to the conversation ,items never brought forth before,and also items that do no belong here in this discussion,not to mention that he,as all wack jobs do,brings up a mispelling [which is only a typo ] and suggests that it is material.
Please keep in mind that these are simply an attempt by the morons to cloud the subject..They do it all the time.
I also hope you will take a moment and look at the last few posts here ,,,take it slow ,,and tell me if you think I have a problem with spelling and puncuation...maybe you do .please let me know if it makes it difficult for you to understand.I'd appreciate that.
In the mean time,perhaps it is possible that mr.blight will see the errors of his way....Naw ,he is too stupid to actually engage in a meaningful ,thought out conversation...I am glad he doen't live in America !
RIP

purri
12-30-2009, 04:39 AM
Um. Black ice is what forms when water vapor freezes on the roadway. It is almost invisible but very, very slick. You get it a lot in areas where advection fog forms as the temperature drops below freezing; also at intersections in towns, where car exhaust cools and settles onto the road, freezing there.

Not actually in point of fact a racist term at all.

Doh!

Media tarts use whatever associative words they can to hook the rubes in for a scan. I know black ice well, having honed my driving skills on it for a few years. (yeah even in OZ). :D

ripley699
12-30-2009, 04:49 AM
Then, May I assume that you are aware of its dangers ?

Rip

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 05:15 AM
Hi Old Sub,
Again i apologize for the idiots here. Ocaasionally i type fast and this computer,on loan to me,is kinda foreighn to me.i may appear to make a mistake now and then,but its only a typo.
I see tht Capt. blight has brought up old "George bush " again. Once again ,just as ALL other left wing wackos, he attempts to cloud what I have said,both by bringing in to the conversation ,items never brought forth before,and also items that do no belong here in this discussion,not to mention that he,as all wack jobs do,brings up a mispelling [which is only a typo ] and suggests that it is material.
Please keep in mind that these are simply an attempt by the morons to cloud the subject..They do it all the time.
I also hope you will take a moment and look at the last few posts here ,,,take it slow ,,and tell me if you think I have a problem with spelling and puncuation...maybe you do .please let me know if it makes it difficult for you to understand.I'd appreciate that.
In the mean time,perhaps it is possible that mr.blight will see the errors of his way....Naw ,he is too stupid to actually engage in a meaningful ,thought out conversation...I am glad he doen't live in America !
RIP

I live in downtown Minneapolis, you big bundle of unpleasant associations. How's that for stupid?

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 05:17 AM
I know black ice well, having honed my driving skills on it for a few years. (yeah even in OZ). :DReally? Like, really really? Huh, learned something new today. Dearie me.

Do you lot call it 'black ice?'

McMike
12-30-2009, 07:52 AM
I think the driver is in the wrong. It sounds to me that ego killed this girl not the snow or black Ice.

Ian McColgin
12-30-2009, 08:26 AM
Because oldsub86 has refused to provide the story, there is a great deal we can only inferr with the continued but unverifiable assumption that he's both truthful and complete in his account of the news account.

We may privately judge and in follow-up stories, which oldsub86 also denies us as we don't even know what paper this might be in, the police may also conclude that the driver should not have passed. However oldsub86 makes clear that the story has the roll-over start with the car hitting black ice. This is simple fact and, oldsub86's silly comments to the contrary, in no way means that in a final legal judgement the driver was either at fault or not at fault.

To know that requires some detailed knowledge that oldsub86 obviously does not have, or he would have specified it.

I suspect this whole quiver is about something terrible and tragic in oldsub86's past that he needs to work out on his own, not blame newspapers or kid drivers.

purri
12-30-2009, 06:43 PM
Really? Like, really really? Huh, learned something new today. Dearie me.

Do you lot call it 'black ice?'

Yep,

Usually found here in the shade of large road cuttings when the rest of the road is dry by abt 9AM. Joe tourist sees a dry open road then....................ZINGO!!!

oldsub86
12-30-2009, 09:38 PM
1. I did not refuse to provide the story. I just did not have immediate access to it. If I can find it online, I will add a link.

2. My point was not to create a bunch of in-fighting here. I just asked if you thought the newspapers in your area tended to be biased. I still think that the folks who write in our local paper are a real bunch of bleeding hearts who won't say "**it" if they step in it. I consider it just too much politically correct garbage.

3. I wondered if this was common across north america or if Winnipeg Free Press was an oddball.

Randy

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 09:44 PM
I think it's worth noting that so much "politically correct garbage" is actually driven by a very real fear of lawsuits, and loss of advertising revenues. I think some newspapermen would very much like to be able to do a better, or at least different, job with their reportage; and are prevented by doing so by their editors and publishers.

Tom Montgomery
12-30-2009, 09:44 PM
Hi Old Sub,
Again i apologize for the idiots here. Ocaasionally i type fast and this computer,on loan to me,is kinda foreighn to me.i may appear to make a mistake now and then,but its only a typo.
I see tht Capt. blight has brought up old "George bush " again. Once again ,just as ALL other left wing wackos, he attempts to cloud what I have said,both by bringing in to the conversation ,items never brought forth before,and also items that do no belong here in this discussion,not to mention that he,as all wack jobs do,brings up a mispelling [which is only a typo ] and suggests that it is material.
Please keep in mind that these are simply an attempt by the morons to cloud the subject..They do it all the time.
I also hope you will take a moment and look at the last few posts here ,,,take it slow ,,and tell me if you think I have a problem with spelling and puncuation...maybe you do .please let me know if it makes it difficult for you to understand.I'd appreciate that.
In the mean time,perhaps it is possible that mr.blight will see the errors of his way....Naw ,he is too stupid to actually engage in a meaningful ,thought out conversation...I am glad he doen't live in America !
RIP

CLASSIC! I'm saving this gem.

oldsub86
12-30-2009, 09:50 PM
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/icy-roads-cause-more-fatalities-80192692.html

Here is part of what was in the paper.

There was a second shorter story that appeared to be more factual and less teary.

If you read some of the comments, it appears that others agreed with me that the driver was the problem rather than the road condition. All of the roads around here were like that and it should not have been any surprise for him.

I do agree with the one post that says pointing fingers may just make the family feel worse. However, I am still opposed to doing the opposite and making the driver look like another innocent victim. If he was, then he should not have been behind the wheel as he had not been trained to drive.

People need some common sense.


Randy

Ian McColgin
12-30-2009, 10:34 PM
The recount of the story comes off as more biased than any claim that the story was biased. Even if the story was not on-line, the minimal responsible documentation would have been to mention the date and time of the story. Even better would have been to simply type the story into the Forum. I've certainly done that for quotable bits, with proper citation, quotes and all that. Like you should have done in high school.

So that's why I say "refused" to provide. To easy to have done so.

The piece provided in now cited site has no relevance to the accident itself as it's more a human interest bit on a life cut short. However, it is a piece that mentions others killed in similar road condtions over the time periord. Why are those accidents not also brought up for opprobrious review?

My concerns stand. There is not information here to condemn either the driver or the newspaper, but there is abundant textual evidence that oldsub86 would not be happy as a reporter whose duty was to stick to verifiable facts.

Flying Orca
12-31-2009, 08:08 AM
Thanks for the post, Randy, I've been thinking about this one too. I drove that same stretch of Highway 8 the same day, and it was treacherous. I kept my little Suzuki in AWD and kept the speed under 80 Km/h at all times, often under 70 on the really slippery bits (approaching the Perimeter Highway and around the St Andrews airport, where I understand the accident occurred).

There was no black ice, but recent warmth and snow had made the highway very greasy, and there were plenty of people driving too fast for the conditions. I drive that highway at least twice a week in each direction to visit my folks and work on the boat, and I have noticed that pickups and SUVs, usually with young male drivers, are the vehicles most likely to be driven too fast for the condition of that highway. Several times I've been passed by some idiot only to see them in the ditch a couple of miles later.

Sad that in this case someone lost her life on Christmas Eve, but I'll bet the driver learned something about driving to the conditions. Did you notice an older gent was killed on Highway 9 (a couple of miles east of Highway 8, for the out-of-towners) the same day? Lost control and veered into oncoming traffic.

The roads were much better when I drove my brother to the airport this morning.