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brad9798
12-29-2009, 09:20 PM
Non-middle-East Oil (http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/companies.php)

I'm not a fan of something called 'terror free oil,' but I am a fan of NOT supporting the Middle-East!

Just a thought ... we should support our own hemisphere's oil production ... for a start.

Right? :eek: ;)

Tom Galyen
12-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Nah, lets use up all of their oil first, then they'll have to eat sand. :)

NOTE: That was written in humor, however note that not all "Terrorist Oil" comes from the middle east. Think of the name Hugo Chavez and what he does with his oil revenue.

Pugwash
12-29-2009, 09:26 PM
As far as I'm aware, Citgo doesn't import oil from the Middle East.

And they're in the same hemisphere as "us" (so is the Middle East, but don't let that worry you too much).

http://blog.kir.com/archives/citgo.jpg

Stan D
12-29-2009, 09:34 PM
I had heard that Citgo WAS Hugo Chavez.

Tom Galyen
12-29-2009, 09:38 PM
Stan,
That is what I alluded to in my post.

brad9798
12-29-2009, 09:39 PM
I should have pointed out that ... sorry ... CITGO is Hugo!

And I believe CITGO is 'called out' on the site, no?

seafox
12-29-2009, 09:41 PM
funny how comunication is. the thread starter ment the western himisphear ie the americasbut then another decides to constrew the northern vrs the sotuhern himisphear so to place the US and the middle east "together"

funny how easily miscomunications occure

LeeG
12-29-2009, 09:44 PM
Brad, you sell cars for the largest consumer of oil in the world. Your industry supports consumption of the most oil we can afford. Our country and the rising economies of the east will be sending money to oil producing countries like the ones north and south of us as well as the middle east for centuries.

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. Got that? The Great Spagetti Monster decided that one region would have the largest reserves, not ours.
Getting the clue? Do you have any f*cking idea how idiotic the idea of the middle east not soaking up trillions for oil that the WORLD NEEDS to thrive?

"The middle east is where the prize ultimately lies" -D. Cheney Prez of Halliburton


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/US_Oil_Production_and_Imports_1920_to_2005.png

Stan D
12-29-2009, 09:45 PM
Stan,
That is what I alluded to in my post.

I sort'a had that feeling, but I wasn't sure of Pugwash.

Pugwash
12-29-2009, 09:49 PM
I sort'a had that feeling, but I wasn't sure of Pugwash.

I was dragging up a logo when Tom posted, I had no idea that he was going to pip me to the post.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Brad, to meet the goals of this website oil should probably double so we can survive on the oil that ONLY comes from NorthAmerica. If we deepen the recession and increase the price of oil to $150/barrel we would probably start using it more efficiently so we can survive on "North American" oil. Between a long term recession and the higher efficiency forced by the high cost this will allow China to consume more from the middle east as we will have removed ourself from the world market.


from your link

http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/about.php


Q. Where does TFO oil come from?
A. North America.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 09:54 PM
Nah, lets use up all of their oil first, then they'll have to eat sand. :)

NOTE: That was written in humor, however note that not all "Terrorist Oil" comes from the middle east. Think of the name Hugo Chavez and what he does with his oil revenue.

It's ok, we're using up ours first. It's easier to get it from Texas, Ohio, California and Alaska than Iran don't you think? Then we'll simply buy what's cheaper to produce from other places, like Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Venezuela, Nigeria, etc.

The real funny part is that the oil producing countries are starting to consume more of their own oil as they grow their economies. You know, like we did in the last century.

brad9798
12-29-2009, 09:56 PM
I was simply attempting to point out that certain 'gas' stations do no import oil outside of this hemisphere ... and was curious to others' thoughts.

No need to get ugly.

It is what it is!

I guess just a lesson in futility ...

:)

LeeG
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
this fits


http://www.costofwar.com/

Pugwash
12-29-2009, 10:04 PM
It is what it is!

I guess just a lesson in futility ...

:)

It is exactly what it is, a list of companies "being investigated" that doesn't include Wal-Mart yet it does include ASDA (UK)...


As a wholly owned division of Wal-Mart, Asda is not required to declare quarterly or half-yearly earnings

Funny that....damned foreigners.

;)

brad9798
12-29-2009, 10:05 PM
NO, actually some pre-determined calculator has nothing to do with it ... :rolleyes:

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:08 PM
I was simply attempting to point out that certain 'gas' stations do no import oil outside of this hemisphere ... and was curious to others' thoughts.

No need to get ugly.

It is what it is!

I guess just a lesson in futility ...

:)

(smiley face) apartment dwellers are that way sometimes. (wink)

It's awfully silly of you to say you don't want to support middle east economies when your business more than any other is responsible for it's income.

You do make a good point about using local resources but even your local pizza shop probably uses imported olive oil.

I'm guessing you might use imported Saffron when making paella instead of New Jersey saffron.

So yeah, I hope you aren't supporting terrorism. But this website is more likely a way to sell t-shirts or small businesses wanting gov't protection from bigger fish.

The US is entering a different century.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Just a thought ... we should support our own hemisphere's oil production ... for a start.


we did start here. Then we expanded to there, and there, and there.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:16 PM
"...the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies,.."

Brad, please read that statement. Let it sink in. This guy knows what he's talking about. He's in the business of finding and processing oil.



http://www.energybulletin.net/node/559

Full text of Dick Cheney's speech at the Institute of Petroleum Autumn lunch, 1999
by Dick Cheney

...............From the standpoint of the oil industry obviously and I’ll talk a little later on about gas, but obviously for over a hundred years we as an industry have had to deal with the pesky problem that once you find oil and pump it out of the ground you’ve got to turn around and find more or go out of business. Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity. Every year you’ve got to find and develop reserves equal to your output just to stand still, just to stay even. This is true for companies as well in the broader economic sense as it is for the world. A new merged company like Exxon-Mobil will have to secure over a billion and a half barrels of new oil equivalent reserves every year just to replace existing production. It’s like making one hundred per cent interest discovery in another major field of some five hundred million barrels equivalent every four months or finding two Hibernias a year.

For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from?

Governments and the national oil companies are obviously controlling about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer great oil opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greater access there, progress continues to be slow. .....................

brad9798
12-29-2009, 10:21 PM
we did start here. Then we expanded to there, and there, and there.

I know this ... and I have read what you posted ... more than once ...

Not trying to argue!

Just simply a post.

tomlarkin
12-29-2009, 10:24 PM
Of course, getting our oil locally has drawbacks too:



Extracting the tarlike oil called bitumen and converting it into the light crude that refiners want is an energy-intensive process that annually produces as much carbon dioxide as 6 million cars. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008451114_oilsands30.html

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:33 PM
Looks like it's just another racist finding ways of making his voice heard and make a living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror-Free_Oil_Initiative

Terror-Free Oil purchases its gas from Sinclair Oil Corporation, who buy oil from all areas of the world on the New York Mercantile Exchange. After critics questioned the buying methods of the group, founder Joe Kaufman, was forced to acknowledge that the stations were likely selling some oil from the Middle East.[6]
In an article on the Pro-Palestinian website The Electronic Intifada, American journalist Ali Abunimah called the group "fundamentally racist" and a "headline-grabbing stunt by a group of unabashed racists and demogogues", claiming the group was simply a front for Americans Against Hate.[7]
Journalist and writer on energy, Robert Bryce also criticised the group on the American Public Media show Marketplace[6] and the CNBC show, Closing Bell with Maria Bartiromo.[8] Bryce states that "the trends of energy interdependence are growing and are inexorable" and branded that idea of being able choose where your oil came from as "hogwash".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_Against_Hate

The group has protested against the Islamic Circle of North America, and calls for the inclusion of ICNA in the US State Department's list of organizations that support terrorists.[2] In October 2007, AAH members picketed Six Flags over Texas during an ICANA sponsored "Muslim Family Day", on the basis that it was "a charade, created to spread hatred, but veiled in a way to make the sponsoring organization look harmless."[3] Subsequently, local Muslim organizations won a court injunction to prohibit Kaufman from injuring, threatening, or inciting violence against them. [4]
In 2008, after a meeting in which the group attempted to have Joe Badran, a member of the Broward County School Board's Diversity Committee, removed from the committee alleging he was a supporter of Hamas and terrorism, board member Robert Parks, who denied the claims about Badran, said the group bullied him throughout the meeting and suggested they should be renamed "Americans for Hate" and said the group's targeting Badran was 'mean'. The New Times Broward-Palm Beach also claimed that Kaufman was responsible for an "internet-based subculture of anti-Arab racists who have attacked Badran in online posts."[1]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Joe_Kaufman

Joe Kaufman is the Chairman of Americans Against Hate, the founder of CAIR Watch, and "an investigative journalist for Frontpage Magazine, according to his AAH profile. [1]
"In September of 2003, Joe was invited by Florida Speaker of the House Johnnie Byrd to give expert testimony in front of law enforcement and government representatives at a forum on terrorism and homeland security. In February of 2006, Joe was a featured speaker and gave two presentations at the Intelligence Summit conference held in Arlington, Virginia. In April of 2006, Joe was a featured speaker at the America's Truth Forum symposium held in Arlington, Virginia. Joe has been featured on Fox News and has appeared on numerous local and national television and radio talk shows." [2]

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6551.shtml

It takes only moments to discover that TFO spokesman Joe Kaufman is founder of a group called "Americans Against Hate," whose main agenda appears to be support for the Israeli extremist right. Its main product appears to be a relentless stream of statements claiming that mainstream American Muslim organizations are terrorist fronts, and labeling anyone who dares to criticise Israel a "radical Islamist" or supporter of terrorism. The whole "Terror Free Oil Initiative" and website appear to be little more than a ploy to steer people towards Americans Against Hate, whose Coral Springs, Florida mailbox serves as the corporate address for both organizations.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:38 PM
I know this ... and I have read what you posted ... more than once ...

Not trying to argue!

Just simply a post.

It's cool. I'm just posting too. No argument. I made a mistake that you thought the website made sense but can see that you're simply asking for feedback. It's just feedback. It's cool. If you've sent any money to this organization I'd say you helped a divisive racist organization that will do NOTHING to reduce terrorism in the world but increase the conditions for it.

brad9798
12-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Oh GOOD LORD, I have sent no money!

Like you said ... just looking for alternative answers ... I certainly do not have all the answers!

Good on you, leeg!

LeeG
12-29-2009, 10:49 PM
Of course, getting our oil locally has drawbacks too:



I'm wondering if hydraulic fracturing is a process that should involve testing for ground water pollution.

http://www.propublica.org/feature/new-gas-wells-leave-more-chemicals-in-ground-hydraulic-fracturing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing#Environmental_impact_and_regu lation

In the United States, a 2004 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study concluded that the process was safe and didn't warrant further study, because there was "no unequivocal evidence" of health risks, and the fluids were neither necessarily hazardous nor able to travel far underground. That study, however, was not intended as a general study of hydraulic fracturing, but only of its use in coalbed methane deposits, and the study did not consider impacts above ground.[13] The EPA report did find uncertainties in knowledge of how fracturing fluid migrates through rocks, and upon its release service companies voluntarily agreed to stop using diesel fuel as a component of fracturing fluid, due to its potential as a source of benzene contamination.
The Energy Policy Act of 2005 further strengthened the industry's regulatory position, specifically exempting hydraulic fracturing from federal regulation under the Safe Drinking Water Act.[13]
The increased use of hydraulic fracturing has prompted more criticism of its environmental dangers. A 2008 investigation of benzene contamination in Colorado and Wyoming led some EPA officials to point towards hydraulic fracturing as a culprit. One of the authors of the 2004 EPA report states that it has been misconstrued by the gas-drilling industry.[13]
Congress has been urged to repeal the 2005 regulatory exemption.[14] The FRAC Act, introduced in June 2009, would eliminate the exemption and would require disclosure of the chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing.

LeeG
12-29-2009, 11:08 PM
Oh GOOD LORD, I have sent no money!

Like you said ... just looking for alternative answers ... I certainly do not have all the answers!

Good on you, leeg!

gee shucks, it worn't nuthin' I just googled away. Did you know Cheney said that the middle east is where the prize ultimately lies? It's true. God decided Islam should have the prize. Imagine that. Hell, that's as wacky as saying Jesus was a Jew.

Now go back and think of smart Cheney who knows where the prize ultimately lies and think of his intentional deceptions to erase the distinctions between a stalinist dictator like Saddam and a terrorist like Osama to remove that dictator from using oil as a weapon like OPEC did in 1973 and Iran did in 1979.

Cool isn't it? Here we are a trillion dollars into quagmires started by a Republican administration and you've provided links to a Republican organizer in Florida attempting a nonsensical sale of "non-middle eastern oil" .

I gotta thank you for posting this stuff. I'm always impressed by innovative entrepeneurs finding marketing niches.

paladin
12-30-2009, 06:33 AM
I dunno, but I guess I use terror free oil.....and I spend nothing on gasoline. We have two auto pumping wells still in operation near Seminole Oklahoma, and I get a royalty check of $345 a month, and I spend a helluva lot less than that on gas and electric.

LeeG
12-30-2009, 07:46 AM
same here Chuck, without the well in Oklahoma, but the idea that 10-40 oil or gasoline is "terror funded oil" is totally whacko crazy. This is where people really have to think like adults and not children lead by flawed arguments where associations are causation.

Bob Adams
12-30-2009, 07:17 PM
I was simply attempting to point out that certain 'gas' stations do no import oil outside of this hemisphere ... and was curious to others' thoughts.


:)

Well, not exactly. Gasoline is kind of like electricity, the supplier you pay is not directly supplying the product. If you go to a gasoline distibution center, you will see multiple brand tankers being filled from the same tanks, The brand differance is simply the additive package. Bottom line is, no matter how you try, you cannot avoid buying imported oil, it's all dumped in the same pot.

Captain Blight
12-30-2009, 07:30 PM
Get out of the damned car and commute by bike. If you live on the water, commute by boat. Quit buying plastic BS and learn to fix the things that break. Put on a sweater in the winter, and turn the thermostat down to 58. Turn off the damned light when you leave a room, and replace your bulbs with compact fluorescents.

Mostly, though, throw your car keys away. Your heart and lungs will thank you... eventually.

brad9798
12-31-2009, 11:43 PM
If you live on the water, commute by boat.

Yes ... that'll fix it ... because 45 year-old 283 blocks are so efficient! ;)