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Paul Pless
12-29-2009, 08:12 PM
I had to go to Birmingham on business this morning and decided to spend the afternoon at the Barber Vintage Motorcycle Museum. Legend has it that Mr. Barber, a billionaire recluse had his homes, barns, garages, and offices stuffed full of old bikes and his wife told him to get rid of them a few years ago so he built this place, with attached FIA spec racetrack and opened it for the public to enjoy. Its an amazing place.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1938BroughSuperior.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1948VincentHRD.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1943BMWAfrikaCorpswithsidecarandmac.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1958ArielSquareFourSidecar.jpg

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1974HerculesWankel.jpg

Pugwash
12-29-2009, 08:21 PM
Why does the Nazi bike have a South Carolina flag on it?

:eek:

botebum
12-29-2009, 08:21 PM
Birmingham, MI or Birmingham, AL? I lived in the one in MI for most of my first seven years.

Doug

Hwyl
12-29-2009, 08:22 PM
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1958ArielSquareFourSidecar.jpg



I'm pretty sure my neighbour had that exact combo, when I was growing up. It was his daily driver.

botebum
12-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Why does the Nazi bike have a South Carolina flag on it?

:eek:I don't think thats the meaning of the palm Derek:D:D

Doug

Paul Pless
12-29-2009, 08:30 PM
This shot gives an idea of the scale of the place, this is one half of the top three floors of five floors.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/Wideshot2.jpg

Here's a link to a photo album: link (http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/)

oznabrag
12-29-2009, 08:30 PM
Doug, I googled it and it's in Alabama. Sorry about your hip, but real glad it wasn't your neck!

I'll be sure to check those bikes out next time I'm through there.

Happy birthday Paul!

seafox
12-29-2009, 09:59 PM
Hay Paul and Katherine
hope you guys are heathy and happy and have a great new year
jeff bybee

purri
12-30-2009, 02:15 AM
The "Squaffa" is incorrect. It's a 1957 model that requires a dual seat. (BTW I had one).

The B series Vincent seat is over upholstered.

Brufsup SS100 is nice but for the battery placement???

The Bigfella
12-30-2009, 02:43 AM
The "Squaffa" is incorrect. It's a 1957 model that requires a dual seat. (BTW I had one).

The B series Vincent seat is over upholstered.

Brufsup SS100 is nice but for the battery placement???

Here's a mate's Brough Superior. The battery looks tacked on here too....

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/bike1.jpg

Paul Pless
12-30-2009, 07:40 AM
I really enjoyed his attached Lotus Room.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/TheLotusRoom.jpg

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
12-30-2009, 07:54 AM
...
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/PaulPless/Barber%20Vintage%20Motorsports%20Museum/1974HerculesWankel.jpg

Thanks - that is possibly the coolest middleweight engine ever - like someone just stole a part off the Starship Enterprise and bolted it to a bike frame.

And then, like Douglas, they decided to fit a chain!

The Bigfella
12-30-2009, 08:01 AM
You know that Norton did a Wankel too?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/iansecond/norton2-1.jpg


Paul, that is one amazing museum eh?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
12-30-2009, 08:45 AM
As did Suzuki.
http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/Bike%20Directories/Suzuki%20Bikes/images/Suzuki-RE5-Rotary-1972%281%29.jpg

Later the instrument pod vanished in favour of a conventional set-up.
http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/suzuki_re5_rotary.jpg


The famous version of the Norton was this one (http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/stsve-hislop-norton.php)

Paul Pless
01-12-2013, 10:52 PM
bump for lew

The Bigfella
01-12-2013, 11:04 PM
Thanks for the bump. Great to read it again... I think I'm gunna be easy fixed if I get Alzheimers. I'll just need a favourites list to run through every day.

I'm just back from a bike swap meet 200km down the road. I almost resisted all the temptations, just picked up a few small things. Could've happily spent $100k on bikes I liked.

PeterSibley
01-13-2013, 02:52 AM
Nabiac Ian ?

Some beautiful bikes but museums a bit sad, those bikes should be out there on the road, being enjoyed.

PeterSibley
01-13-2013, 03:16 AM
Here's an interesting one .http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-BSA-B50MX-NOS-NEVER-RIDDEN-/121048800283?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item1c2f121c1b#ht_500wt_1182

The Bigfella
01-13-2013, 03:40 AM
Nabiac Ian ?

Some beautiful bikes but museums a bit sad, those bikes should be out there on the road, being enjoyed.

Nah, swap meet at Goulburn Showground. The guy from Nabiac had a few tables there and I almost bought a tail light from him, but I'll wait until the bikes get here before I start getting bits.

The Bigfella
01-13-2013, 04:54 AM
Here's a few of the bikes and bits at the swap meet. First up, a B31 BSA marked "to be restored"... it cost about the same as the one I bought (in fully restored condition, with boxloads of brand new spares)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap1.jpg

and on the same trailer, one that picqued my interest. A 1926 Indian Scout. Needs a bit of tidying up. $6,500

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap5.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap4.jpg

I'd guess and say that's an Excelsior

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap8.jpg

I was also interested in the sidecar. It was the body only though, $600. There were a few chassis floating around, but I was looking, not buying


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap9.jpg

The Bigfella
01-13-2013, 04:57 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap7.jpg

This one has been spoilt... all that extra weight and a floppy rear wheel

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap2.jpg


Not cheap, but nice. The 850 Beeza was $15k

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap3.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Third/swap6.jpg

They wanted ridiculous money, $7,500 for that R50S. "Rare... one of only 1,600 made"... probably because they didn't sell very well

PeterSibley
01-13-2013, 05:38 AM
Nice to see a bit of humour in the pricing .:D

Reynard38
01-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Nabiac Ian ?

Some beautiful bikes but museums a bit sad, those bikes should be out there on the road, being enjoyed.

They actually do get ridden. He keeps a staff of mechanics and restorers on hand to maintain the bikes in working condition. They get exercised on the adjacent track.
I've been there a couple of times. Once for a motorcycle track school. While we were on break a couple of the vintage bikes took a few laps.
Most beautiful road course in N. America and a blast on a bike!

LeeG
01-13-2013, 02:28 PM
Nice to see a bit of humour in the pricing .:D

Some folks just can't let go.

purri
01-13-2013, 06:14 PM
The Shaw is all original, very rare (Oz made?) and a peach (abt 1908). The Indian (spring rear frame) abt 1915 and Thor are very nice. All in all highly desirable.

Lew Barrett
01-13-2013, 07:18 PM
As some may know, we have a musician-daughter who lives in Nashville, so we visit here (less frequently than I would like) from time to time. Following this thread, I resolved to visit the museum in Alabama (it is anything but sad, Peter!). It's about 200 miles from our house in 'ville, but my long suffering, tolerant, motorcycle riding wife submitted to my furtive pleas so we embarked yesterday morning for a quick out and back.

I'd seen a fair hunk of the Barber collection in Las Vegas a few years ago when three thousand of BMW's best customers were invited to attend the opening of the "Art of the Motorcycle" display at the Guggenhiem Museum. That was a hell of a fun ride in (and back), but it's a story for another time.

As for the collection itself, we got a late start yesterday on the drive down I-65 to Birmingham. Nashville's night life is abundant and both my daughter and her live in guy (my boy-friend-in-law) work the town with frequent gigs, which we usually attend if we're in town. (See smeared photographic evidence below).
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0539_zps87e5f9c6.jpg
Broadway is still busy at midnight.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0545_zpsff5326b8.jpg
Up on the distant stage of the Full Moon is The Travis Mann Band. Not bad, but then, you can't be bad in Nashville.

By the time we'd recovered from the previous evening's debauch, it was almost noon. Undaunted, we decided to pull the trigger on the mission. That decision resulted in what has to be one of the dullest drives in the area. We arrived in Birmingham with just enough time to rush through the museum.

Exhibit A is easy to fill in, raising the ante on the Shaw.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0448_zps8030e840.jpg

I honed in on the motor because of the (typical) 300 (at a guess) degree bend of the intake manifold as well as the very modern looking (to my eye) carburetor. The restoration, like most of the Barber full on restos, is delicious.

Since we're in the general neighborhood, might as well put this one up too.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0383_zpsc0820d3e.jpg

There are a lot of BMWs; hell, there are a lot of everythings, but since it is an emotional favorite of mine, and one I have owned, their R26 comes next.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0527_zpsf68fe72e.jpg

Speaking of bikes I have owned that were on display, the list was extensive. It includes a Diana MKIII, a Bronco (both Ducatis), a K1200RS, the aforementioned R26, a Suzuki GS1000, both a Kawasaki Z-1 and a later KZ900, also two bikes I have owned, a BMW R1100 (loosely....I had an 1150) a K1200RS, several Triumph Tiger Cubs (I owned only one) A Guzzi V11 (they had several iterations, mine was a Sport) and an Aprilia Mille. Mine was an R, theirs was an R in Colin Edward's racing livery.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0476_zps9abe8b92.jpg
I loved the Diana's motor when I owned one and still think it's one of the prettiest Ducati lumps ever built.

The Bigfella
01-13-2013, 07:28 PM
Keep em coming Lew. I also had a Ducati single... a 350 Mk111 (and pretty much another one in boxes... but then, I built mine up from a basket case). I think its a beautiful engine... but the bike was a bit "small" for me... physically.

The carby on that Shaw looks like the ones on early boat engines... I've got 4 or 5 of them floating around here. Bastards of things to polish.


.... and if I'm not mistaken, I think you were following the young lady in the gold boots

Lew Barrett
01-13-2013, 07:30 PM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0391_zps828feb98.jpg
A '73 Z1. Mine was a '75, and differed mainly just in color.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/Z1PDF.jpg
For the umpteenth time....you've all seen this picture already, but I like it and being old, I am or should be allowed the luxury of repeating myself.

Flat twins, you say? I didn't know that Velocette made one, but I'm sure ACB, Purri, PISN and Ian did. The rest I'd seen either in the flesh, or at least was aware of. I grabbed a couple of BMWs and can include them later, but being less well known (except maybe the Douglas, and I guess not really the Zundapp) these were interesting to me.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0499_zps308aac43.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0502_zps66d1865f.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0411_zpsb48eb726.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0525_zps7e6a1d70.jpg

Lew Barrett
01-13-2013, 07:54 PM
Keep em coming Lew. I also had a Ducati single... a 350 Mk111 (and pretty much another one in boxes... but then, I built mine up from a basket case). I think its a beautiful engine... but the bike was a bit "small" for me... physically.

The carby on that Shaw looks like the ones on early boat engines... I've got 4 or 5 of them floating around here. Bastards of things to polish.


.... and if I'm not mistaken, I think you were following the young lady in the gold boots

I don't have to tell you of all people that doing this is a pleasant time sump, so I'll get them up as I can steal some of "that commodity" between our play in Nashville, but one interesting thing from the Shaw photo: it settles Purri's question of where they were built.

I have a few, will get them up Ian. Unfortunately my i-Phone was not the best tool for the job, but I didn't bring my slr as we were already packing a bunch of stuff to bring here.

Never even saw the gal in the gold boots, and to be honest, the Nash scenes look pretty much as they actually appeared to me two nights ago. It is hard to remain truly sober on Broadway for reasons people who have been there readily understand.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0524_zpsde00cd09.jpg

Still going with the "flat" theme, but moving along.....I also have their Lilacs (Marusho in this country) on file, can pop them in later if desired.

The thing about this museum is that if one is good, two or three have to be better. Who has two Porcupines?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0473_zps8b6e5e0d.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0474_zpsdc834825.jpg

And while on motors, and since there are practitioners of sand casting here.......

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0472_zps0d591361.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0452_zps9b0df2ca.jpg

In a somewhat similar and even more winning vein, but to my eye not quite as pretty as Count Augusta's

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0414_zps36a0713c.jpg
Far more pedestrian, but bulletproof looking, and handsome in it's way. I think all the clues are here to name this motor's manufacturer, but what s the displacement?

The Bigfella
01-13-2013, 08:57 PM
I'd be guessing 250cc.

On that MV, I was discussing the 750 Super America that my friend has with him. He says it is an absolute delight to work on. Unbolt that top half of the crankcases and the crank just lifts out.

Re Galesberg... yeah, he's about that accurate on OzPol too.

purri
01-13-2013, 11:45 PM
Lew, The Oz example appears to be original finish thus for the market it is intrinsically more desirable. FWIW there was a local motorcycle industry here (Tilbrook perhaps being the last excepting some later PR beat-ups like HH) and the local rag the "Green Horror" (AMCN) did a series many years ago. Some were all local mfg but many were made using imported engines.

Lew Barrett
01-14-2013, 01:16 AM
Lew, The Oz example appears to be original finish thus for the market it is intrinsically more desirable. FWIW there was a local motorcycle industry here (Tilbrook perhaps being the last excepting some later PR beat-ups like HH) and the local rag the "Green Horror" (AMCN) did a series many years ago. Some were all local mfg but many were made using imported engines.

Hi Purri, Leaving aside the question of market value (well, I suppose I "uped the ante")but in respect to their point of manufacture, I was prepared to accept Oz until I looked at the bike!
This collection has dozens of original condition bikes of immense importance. I couldn't possibly photograph all of them, but I will post up some neat stuff over the next few days.

Everyone should recognize (or I do, anyway) that with enough money it is possible to amass various forms of wealth or art beyond the wildest dreams of us pikers. This is clearly an OCD guy with a huge bankroll, and with all that money, taste or choice is not even a consideration.

But this is a museum where you can go and touch the collectibles. You can get really, really close to most of them. In this, the Barber set up is a marvelous and generous gift to those of us who enjoy these objects.

Ian, 398c. I didn't know, either until I read it on the placard.
I think you mentioned a Super America?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0470_zps9fa30ea1.jpg

Purri,

Here you go:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0446_zps0748a28c.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0441_zps26ff5bba.jpg
Indian BT racer, I can't guess the value.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0440_zpse127ca33.jpg
A mix of very valuable board trackers from (mostly) original to restored. How it is decided to restore or maintain is a good question.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0468_zps8ae1f9f5.jpg
These Yamahas were very difficult to ride, whereas the 250s were much easier.
Original condition, as are many of the racers. Look at that swing arm. No way could it handle the power.

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 01:58 AM
Yep, love those MV's. There's a pair here, one each side of the Munch (and a hidden Black Shadow under the cover)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/bike6.jpg

Paul Pless
01-14-2013, 06:40 AM
How it is decided to restore or maintain is a good question.It becomes an easier question to answer if you own two or more examples of any particular bike. :d

Paul Pless
01-14-2013, 06:41 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0468_zps8ae1f9f5.jpg
These Yamahas were very difficult to ride, whereas the 250s were much easier.
Original condition, as are many of the racers. Look at that swing arm. No way could it handle the power.

Much respect for riders of this bike.

purri
01-14-2013, 06:52 AM
Nice stuff Lew. BTW I've seen a number of Peashooters (350HV) and prior variants incl the model W fore and aft boxer twin speedway bike (a rip off of the Douglas and ABC): and significant numbers of V twin boardtrackers of all types from dirt track speedway and the Maroubra oval over the years. We still have quite a few US stuff as BF's pics show and there are quite a few more if you know where to ask.

Velocette had 2 boxer types, one the LE aka Plod (police bike) and the other as shown. AFAIK the latter last sold in 68, I almost bought a Venom Thruxton new in 69 for AU$1098. Lucky I didn't!

FWIW there were a number of OHV 8 valve board track HDs known as "Chicago specials" used as police high speed pursuit bikes in the 20's. There is at least one here.

FWIW abt 75 I had a chance to buy an MV 750 tourer for $3K. I passed. Pity!

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-14-2013, 06:55 AM
Is that really an ex Jarno Saarinen works TZ350?


Veloce ltd did indeed produce flat twins interesting but infamously gutless - the Valiant pictured is so rare that I've never seen one.
http://www.le-velocette.co.uk/ <<< all you never wanted to know.

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 07:30 AM
A neighbour has an LE. Ughh

Lew Barrett
01-14-2013, 11:37 AM
Is that really an ex Jarno Saarinen works TZ350?


I would assume it is. The placards were interesting, with some errors, mostly as relates to performance. Top speeds are always listed for all bikes, (I guess that's something people like to know) but were sometimes off with no pattern. The R27 on display was listed with a top speed of 55MPH, whereas the R26 was shown with a top of 65MPH. Both bikes could exceed either of those numbers by a decent margin if in good tune.

The placard on that bike listed it (I think) as a TZ750. I remain perplexed.


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0466_zps990e1ebf.jpg
This looks to have more than 2 pots, but is so spidery.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0462_zpse90bc89c.jpg
This one is a 750 for sure.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
The one marked "Jarno" is NOT a 750 - Saarinen died before the 750 was released (on a 500cc OW20 which was disc braked).

Unless I miss my mark - that's the 1972 or 73 TD3.

Paul Pless
01-14-2013, 03:52 PM
Saarinen died before the 750 was released (on a 500cc OW20 which was disc braked).Jarno was the first European to win at Daytona. Monza sure has claimed a few of the great ones, both on bikes and in cars.

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 04:29 PM
Geez, its 40 years since all that.

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 04:37 PM
Now, if we could find a Brit with a camera who'd brave the snow and toddle off to Birmingham. I'd like to see some more from the phoenix museum there...

http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum.co.uk/images/museum-gallery/nmm-showroom-03.jpg

That Brough Superior Dream is one of only two, the other one, finished in black chrome is apparently in private hands. Horizontally opposed, vertically stacked four IIRC.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-14-2013, 05:10 PM
Intriguingly, Wikipedia disagrees, claiming that the National Motorcycle Museum example was rebuilt following the Museum fire in 2003 and is missing its internals, and that two more in private hands are "in course of restoration", though one suspects that the surviving original components may be few - the black one is owned by the Chairman of the Brough Club, as is right and proper...

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 05:17 PM
Yes, that fire was devastating.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-14-2013, 05:29 PM
George Brough seems to have anticipated the Honda Gold Wing by a matter of three and a half decades.

Lew Barrett
01-14-2013, 05:46 PM
The one marked "Jarno" is NOT a 750 - Saarinen died before the 750 was released (on a 500cc OW20 which was disc braked).

Unless I miss my mark - that's the 1972 or 73 TD3.

No doubt. It was mis-marked in the museum, however. The exhibit space allows for less than half of the motorcycles in the collection. On assumes they rotate from time to time. Perhaps the placards got confused in this case?

Lew Barrett
01-14-2013, 05:52 PM
Now, if we could find a Brit with a camera who'd brave the snow and toddle off to Birmingham. I'd like to see some more from the phoenix museum there...


What sort of coincidence puts Barber's Museum in Birmingham Alabama, and the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham (England)?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-14-2013, 05:56 PM
Birmingham Small Arms?

PeterSibley
01-14-2013, 06:01 PM
George Brough seems to have anticipated the Honda Gold Wing by a matter of three and a half decades.

It seems most configurations have been anticipated by at least that.

Paul Pless
01-14-2013, 06:11 PM
What sort of coincidence puts Barber's Museum in Birmingham Alabama, and the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham (England)?both coal and iron cities too

The Bigfella
01-14-2013, 10:44 PM
The more I read, the more I like the Golden Dream

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Brough_Superior_Golden_Dream_%28close_up%29.JPG/800px-Brough_Superior_Golden_Dream_%28close_up%29.JPG

purri
01-15-2013, 02:41 AM
I believe that you panned the concept some time back much along the terms of transferred heat or am I mistaken?

Looks more like a Wooler to me or might you rely on your usual wiki "information" masquerading as fact?

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 02:45 AM
I believe that you panned the concept some time back much along the terms of transferred heat or am I mistaken?

Looks more like a Wooler to me or might you rely on your usual wiki "information" masquerading as fact?

Rack off Noddy. Yer wrong, yet again.

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 03:27 AM
http://bmwdean.com/brough-dream.jpg

http://www.classicglory.com/images/pics/otherbs/brough%20superior%20golden%20dream.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--NlZQlLR7bM/Tqmn3tTz6NI/AAAAAAAAQKs/lmCmnQsZT90/s1600/dream.jpg

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 03:34 AM
Nice eh?

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 03:40 AM
Delightful, what year Ian?

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 03:49 AM
Never released Peter, shown at the motor show in '38 but the war stopped development.

purri
01-15-2013, 04:01 AM
Once again you are true to your usual "principles" MW. The Wooler predated your supposition that wiki is the font of all knowledge. BrufSup appropriated the engineering principles.

The Brufsup in production utilised an inline (Austin 4?) and dual rear tyres as the ideal touring/sidecar device. There is at least one example in NSW.





Rack off Noddy. Yer wrong, yet again.

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 04:09 AM
Once again you are true to your usual "principles" MW. The Wooler predated your supposition that wiki is the font of all knowledge. BrufSup appropriated the engineering principles.

The Brufsup in production utilised an inline (Austin 4?) and dual rear tyres as the ideal touring/sidecar device. There is at least one example in NSW.

Perhaps you can tell us how Brough appropriated the engineering principles of Wooler's 1945 prototype for his 1938 prototype?


Must be good rum.

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 04:13 AM
http://www.nationalmcmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/xavw5.jpg

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 04:15 AM
What’s so special about the XAVW? Most people know Von Dutch for his artistic classic pin-striping and some know he has painted a few bikes, written some strange prose, made some knives and pretty whacky sculptures. But working with a Harley-Davidson XA, a World War II shaft drive machine that’s relatively rare now, some Moto Guzzi components and a 36 horsepower flat four Volkswagen engine he joined some cool components and built a completemotorcycle. A complete Von Dutch motorcycle. That’s rare.

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 04:23 AM
What’s so special about the XAVW? Most people know Von Dutch for his artistic classic pin-striping and some know he has painted a few bikes, written some strange prose, made some knives and pretty whacky sculptures. But working with a Harley-Davidson XA, a World War II shaft drive machine that’s relatively rare now, some Moto Guzzi components and a 36 horsepower flat four Volkswagen engine he joined some cool components and built a completemotorcycle. A complete Von Dutch motorcycle. That’s rare.

There was a V4 Yamaha engine for sale at the swap meet last weekend. I was very, very tempted to grab it. $500. I've got a Shovelhead FLH that I reckon it'd fit in. I'd need a shaft drive rear end to go with it. I've got the guy's number... but I've got enough projects. I was thinking sidecar too, btw.

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 04:32 AM
From the National Motorcycle Museum....

Wooler

After Wooler achieved fame with its ‘Flying Banana’ twin in the Twenties, little was heard from the small London marque until the 1948 London Show. One of the sensations of that event was a prototype 500cc Wooler shaft-drive tourer with an extraordinary four-cylinder engine. Horizontally-opposed pistons were connected to its crankshaft via a single main connecting rod and a complex rocking-beam mechanism.
Although John Wooler was reluctant to admit it, his innovative engine was impractical. To salvage the project, his son Ronald designed a more orthodox horizontally-opposed four-cylinder power unit. The redesigned four has a compact all-alloy power unit with one carburettor for each pair of cylinders and overhead valves operated by pushrods from camshafts in the lower engine. Drive to the rear wheel from the single-plate clutch and four-speed gearbox is by a shaft and bevel gears. Maintaining Wooler’s ‘Flying Banana’ tradition, the fuel tank unit extends forward ahead of the steering stem and forms the headlamp nacelle. A toolbox is built into the top of the gearbox and an oil pressure gauge is located just ahead of it.

Predating Honda’s Gold Wing flat-four shaft drive tourer by 20 years, the Wooler set out to offer the highest levels of comfort, silence and ease of use. But its maker lacked the finance needed to develop and make a competitive product. As few as five machines are thought to have been assembled before John Wooler died and his marque folded in 1956.

http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum.co.uk/museum/exhibits/Wooler/1953-500cc-Wooler/115/


Brough Golden Dream

After an American motorcycle magazine recently stated that the one and only Brough Superior Golden Dream no longer exists, we’d like to reassure Brough enthusiasts and motorcycle fans in general that this priceless treasure is on display at our Museum!

The amazing 1000cc Dream horizontally-opposed four with two contra-rotating crankshafts was built and finished in gold for the 1938 Earls Court Motor Cycle Show and later displayed in the entrance to George Brough’s Nottingham factory.

As a pure showpiece, the four has no engine internals and when it was being checked over before going on show at the Museum, restorer Colin Wall found a piece of paper inside with a rude message on it, put there by whoever built it decades earlier!

The Second World War intervened before Brough’s ultimate luxury grand tourer was ready for the market. It had evolved from an earlier flat four with discrete cylinders, which survives in private hands and is in running order. The Dream’s tidy engine design features cylinder blocks formed integrally with the aluminium crankcase housing.

The Golden Dream is part of the world’s best display of Brough road machines in Hall 2. Mostly big V-twins, they include an SS100 Alpine Grand Sports and a highly original SS100 twin-carburettor twin-magneto 1933 show model.

http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum.co.uk/museum/exhibits/Brough-Superior/Brough-Golden-Dream/55/

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 04:36 AM
I don't know if you'd like it but the Royal Enfield Cosy chairs are pretty good for the money.

purri
01-15-2013, 04:54 AM
MW dissembling as per...

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 07:30 AM
There's a nice site on four cylinder opposed bikes.

http://bmwdean.com/brough.htm

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-15-2013, 07:38 AM
A fourbanger .....

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/n/55nimbus_Ernst.jpg

Unique and very very cool

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 07:38 AM
Here's a nice one I came across, whilst looking for info on the RIAF Norton 16H I've got. This one wouldn't be the 16H, but I like it nonetheless

http://www.dropbears.com/gallery/classic_motorcycles/images/norton_ww2.jpg

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 07:42 AM
... and yes, the Nimbus are interesting. I've been somewhat put off the four cylinder in-line longitudinal format by what Dad experienced. His Indian Four used to overheat in the rear two cylinders.

http://nimbusclub.com/nimbus1927.jpg

Paul Pless
01-15-2013, 07:59 AM
I like these. . .

http://info.detnews.com/pix/joyrides/2007/barber07/pierce4.jpg

Lew Barrett
01-15-2013, 09:04 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0435_zps4bf5bcb3.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0382_zpsbb27d897.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0386_zps974438b9.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0392_zps4bb10c21.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0445_zpse42d427a.jpg

Paul Pless
01-15-2013, 09:09 AM
I knew you could not have missed the Pierce Arrow.

Lew Barrett
01-15-2013, 10:25 AM
Now that I'm not there it comes to me that there are quite a few more I should have taken. The iPhone was a disincentive though. A man needs many cameras as well as many motorcycles.

Lew Barrett
01-15-2013, 11:34 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0390_zps0e2fde02.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0389_zpsbcd0602b.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0412_zpsa230f8d9.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0526_zps7c347502.jpg




http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0401_zps01b8b5fe.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0404_zpsd6f48bfb.jpg
(For Andrew)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-15-2013, 11:42 AM
What's the V format Kawasaki? - Looks seventies or early eighties and yet is missing from my memory......

Lew Barrett
01-15-2013, 11:45 AM
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0402_zps48260df2.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0453_zpse5267e20.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0458_zps155cb104.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0409_zpse6a0c797.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0517_zps51492c3f.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff76/LewBarrett/IMG_0394_zps567472d8.jpg

PeterSibley
01-15-2013, 03:12 PM
What's the V format Kawasaki? - Looks seventies or early eighties and yet is missing from my memory......

A home build? There have been some remarkable specials in the Brit bike magazines, things like V 4 200 cc Yamahas made from 2 x 100 twins .

Lew Barrett
01-15-2013, 04:50 PM
That custom V8 Kawasaki is the work of Allen Millyard (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mms5119/7859317360/), a gentleman who specializes in the outrageous. If memory serves me, the build seen above is about 10 or a dozen years old, but that's based on my memory of first reading about it in Cycle World. It is later, rather than earlier, and not his only creation. (http://business.highbeam.com/436982/article-1G1-90314911/eight-enough-and-allen-millyard-1600cc-veight-kawasaki).

My Z1 was a vile handler; I'd hope he did better with his. An Englishman, by the way.

Paul Pless
01-15-2013, 05:03 PM
Allen Milyard's sort of an evil genius. . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTyUMgTWNv0

Paul Pless
01-15-2013, 05:05 PM
listen to this! ridiculous :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3HoZHk2yNY

purri
01-15-2013, 05:36 PM
No Wilkinsons shown yet?

BTW Lew; a late mate (Alan Puckett) had the same Parilla (150cc) as first shown but in US race trim and that's a nice Gilera Saturno too. There is one extant here, imported by one Franco Baldi in the early 60s.

The Bigfella
01-15-2013, 06:07 PM
Keep em coming Lew. I couldn't agree more about the "more cameras" thing. I only had the iphone for the swap meet. Incidentally, I saw one of those Moto Aprilia thingies in Kuala Lumpur a few months back

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Malaysia%20and%20Thailand%20by%20Super%20Enduro/036.jpg

... and this old slicer flywheel Guzzi was in a farmer's shed in Sicily. I toyed with the idea of bringing it home with me, but all I got out of the farmer was lunch.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/iansecond/guzzi.jpg

As far as specials go, this has to be one of the wackiest I've ever seen. Why make a V4 500 out of 4 bloody lawnmower engines?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/iansecond/pic23.jpg

Lew Barrett
01-16-2013, 01:29 PM
This post is weird; I would have sworn I'd written more here originally. An edit:
Ian, the Aprilia Moto 6.5 was designed by Phillipe Stark. He's a gifted designer by any measure. I'm not sure about his MC credentials, and the frame is strange isn't it, but I do like that bike and every book on modern motorcycle design seems to include it. It uses the Rotax 650cc single also sold (by Aprilia?) to BMW for the Funduro and used in the Pegaso as well. If I recall, BMWs first production runs (F650) were actually disguised Aprilia built Pegasos. I could have that wrong......



Purri,

I'm a Gilera fan, and obviously the Saturno is at the top of anybody's list of desirable Gileras.

America's import model selection (post war) is so clearly less varied than it was elsewhere. I've never seen a 6.5 on the street here, only in collections. It reflects our conservative buying habits and the costs of bringing a model here. We're a tough market for small manufacturers.

The Bigfella
01-16-2013, 03:47 PM
I'm halfway through reading this book at present

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K2ByPzooL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


In 1912 Carl Stearns Clancy and his riding partner Walter Storey set out to become the first motorcyclists to “girdle the globe.” Using two of only five Henderson motorcycles produced by the famed Henderson Motorcycle Company in 1912, the duo left Philadelphia and started their land trip from Dublin, Ireland.

After a frightful crash on Day 1 and miserable weather in October and November, Storey left the 21 year-old Clancy in Paris, and Clancy soldiered on alone.

Clancy spent the next months riding south to Spain, and then across north Africa, only to be halted before attempting to cross India. Undeterred he shipped his motorcycle to Ceylon where he toured from some days, and then shipped again to Penang. Once there he discovered there was no road to Singapore, so it was back on to a boat for Hong Kong, Shanghai and Japan.

Landing in San Francisco, Clancy began what he called the most difficult part of his ‘round the world ride: San Francisco, California to Portland, Oregon, and then across the northern part of the United States to return to New York. His journey lasted 10 months and he had ridden over 18,000 miles.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/clancy/images/Clancy-at-the-beginning-1912.jpg

I had to leave the book in Chiang Mai, to come home with all the rest of my gear in a container. Interesting read. Clancy did the trip 100 years ago. There is a re-enactment ride happening. The guy who put the book together is an interesting character. He splits his time between Chiang Mai and the States. Met him several times.

The Bigfella
01-18-2013, 11:14 PM
Geez, help us out folks. Watching the bricklayer twisting his knickers into ever smaller knots just doesn't do it for me.

Can one of our English bretheren duck up to the National Motorcycling Museum and keep this thread running?

Here's one from there.

http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum.co.uk/museum/exhibits/bikes/fullsize/nortonnemesisw.jpg

The National Motorcycle Museum is the only place where you’ll see a Norton Nemesis. This prototype with a fuel-injected 1500cc V8 engine housed in a cast aluminium frame was created in 1998 by Melling Consultancy Design for a Canadian investment group that owned the Norton name at the time.

Bold claims were made for visually striking Nemesis, including a predicted output of 235bhp with 111ft-lb of torque and a top speed in excess of 220mph. Along with the flagship V8, Melling projected 900cc Atlas and 750cc Manx fours and anticipated that production could begin before the end of 1998.

But the whole scheme proved over-ambitious and beyond the funds available. Disputes arose between MCD and Aquilini and the project was abandoned in 2000 before the prototype reached the road. A Nemesis engine unit is displayed alongside the complete machine.

purri
01-19-2013, 05:07 AM
Lew,

I subscribed to Motociclismo in the 70s. They had great articles on stuff from the 20s to the 50s. Absolutely amazing! (Bianchi etc)
This post is weird; I would have sworn I'd written more here originally. An edit:
Ian, the Aprilia Moto 6.5 was designed by Phillipe Stark. He's a gifted designer by any measure. I'm not sure about his MC credentials, and the frame is strange isn't it, but I do like that bike and every book on modern motorcycle design seems to include it. It uses the Rotax 650cc single also sold (by Aprilia?) to BMW for the Funduro and used in the Pegaso as well. If I recall, BMWs first production runs (F650) were actually disguised Aprilia built Pegasos. I could have that wrong......



Purri,

I'm a Gilera fan, and obviously the Saturno is at the top of anybody's list of desirable Gileras.

America's import model selection (post war) is so clearly less varied than it was elsewhere. I've never seen a 6.5 on the street here, only in collections. It reflects our conservative buying habits and the costs of bringing a model here. We're a tough market for small manufacturers.

Sam F
01-19-2013, 08:48 AM
Why does the Nazi bike have a South Carolina flag on it?

:eek:

Afrika Korps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps

Lew Barrett
01-19-2013, 11:55 AM
You must have been the envy of the neighborhood.