View Full Version : plans from sensible cruising design
10-03-2000, 12:56 PM
i`m wondering, where to get now the plans from j.f. herreshoff "sensible cruising design", the adress in the back of the book doesen`t seem to work. i`m especially interested in the 11 1/2 foot dingy. does anybody know where to get the plans for it?
10-03-2000, 02:14 PM
Ya might try:
HERRESHOFF MARITIME MUSEUM
One Burnside St.
And Sigfrid ol' friend, it's L.F.
It is L. Francis Herreshoff, and Mystic Seaport Museum has his plans. www.mysticseaport.org (http://www.mysticseaport.org) is the website, 1-860-572-0711 the telephone, and it is the Ships Plans Department you want.
10-11-2000, 09:22 AM
I know of one local fellow who actually built a Mobjack from the offsets shown in the book itself and what a beauty she is.
10-21-2000, 04:05 PM
The rights to L.F.H.'s (Not to be confused with Nathaniel, his father) designs were held by Muriel Vaughn, L.F.H.'s executrix. I heard a couple of years ago that Ms. Vaughn's daughter, whose name is Margaret, I believe, is now in charge of them and lives in Petaluma, CA. I met Muriel Vaughn back in the seventies and she was a very nice lady and had wonderful Herreshoff stories. She was particularly troubled by all the (lousey) boats being built from pirated lines and being called "Herreshoffs." Sadly, I'd suspect Muriel has passed on by now. All of us must respect the intellectual property of our NA's if we are to continue to see the good stuff produced by them. Check the index here.. I vaguely remember someone had listed Margaret (?) Vaughn's address here.
I believe I am correct that Mystic Seaport Museum now owns not only the LFH plans but the "right to build". This was in negotiation a year ago and I am sure concluded. Ships Plans Department at the Museum.
10-22-2000, 07:22 PM
Could be... could be. Everything makes its way to Mystic or the Smithsonian eventually.. thank God! I'm a little less sympathetic to paying designer's commissions to museums, especially publicly funded ones. NA's and their heirs, yes. But... eventually this stuff should make its way to the public domaine if we are paying to have it conserved in public museums... don't you think?
10-22-2000, 11:17 PM
Gee, Bob, isn't donating them to museums a way to help defray the taxpayer's cost, at least theoretically? On a related note, what happens to said designs when their ancestors have no interest in storing and cataloguing those designs? Buying plans from a museum, be it the Smithsonian or Mystic, is far less expensive than paying market value for NAs.
10-23-2000, 08:18 AM
Many public institutions (museums, art galleries, universities, whatever) depend to different degrees on the gifts of generous individuals. Yesterday's newspaper headlined a $5 million gift from an individual to the library of the local university.
If these institutions can use donated assets to generate income, I have no objection.
Mystic asks $10 per sheet of plans from non-members. This probably doesn't much more than cover their costs to copy, mail, etc. Not approaching the typical designer's commission. Pretty close to public domain.
11-01-2000, 07:29 PM
The boat is no 54 also known as La Petite. Plans are available from mystic seaport. You can email a Ms Pat Wilburfirstname.lastname@example.org. There are 9 sheets to this set includin ghte table of offsets. I too have taken an interst in this boat. I would like to either find an old one or build one myself. Do you know of anyone who has built one? I am actually thinking of strip planking or glued lapstreaking it. I know this sounds sacriligous but I think it might suit my needs. check out the plans and lets connect with thoughts.
11-02-2000, 10:25 PM
If you scan that design in to your system, it should zoom very excellently in AutoCad Lite. Joe
11-07-2000, 11:56 AM
The plans from the Herreshoff Mfg Co (as well as other stuff) are held by MIT in the Hart Nautical Collection (or maybe Hart Museum by now) and buying plans gives an individual a right to build.
See MIT's web page for more.
LFH of course was not really associated with the Herreshoff Mfg Co., but I thought I'd toss this in to close the circle.
02-22-2004, 11:50 AM
Back on 10/03/00 Sigrid asked about Herreshoff's 11 1/2 pram...leeboard sailing dingy to Marco Polo. I have same interest. Has anyone built this in traditional pre epoxy style? ...or something similar?
11-24-2004, 11:42 AM
Found this searching old posts...anyway, if anybody is wondering, I learned how to sail in this design. My grandparents built one prior to building their Marco Polo. A joy to sail and row. Very stable. We would routinely put four people and extra "stuff" aboard with no problem. I believe HIPPO was plywood built, screw and glue.
BTW, HIPPO is greek for "Horse" which is, I think, where the name came from.
Herreshoff pram built of rivetted cedar on steamed oak ribs:
Herreshoff pram in 'glass with MMD-designed sail rig:
Mike, the upper one is the 10' LFH-Gardener pram, right? And the lower is a Marco Polo pram? (Both are very pretty.)
Michael, please. (There is another one of me here in B'water, so he's Mike and I'm Michael.)
The 'glass boat is a hull made from a mould splashed from the wooden one. I believe that Whammy used the plans for the 10-ft pram published in John Gardner's book "Building Classic Small Craft". I believe that on at least one occasion he has stretched the boat to 11 feet LOA at a client's request.
Sorry. That's how I became "htom", a radio station I worked at had seven Toms.
11-28-2004, 08:39 AM
You may have the experience to plan accomodation and machinery modifications yourself, and you may even have the experience to develop your scantlines for whatever building method you use, but were I building such a project from jump, I'd surely hire a good designer to handle getting the plans and turning them into construction plans. Never hurts to be sure the weights come out right especially fore and aft and the metacentric.
To the prams: the pram for the Marco Polo is very different from the breadloaf. Both are excellent boats in different ways. The breadloaf is meant to be a nice yacht tender, handled gently, and carried (this is why you hire Olaf as your boat's swain) over the shingle. The tender for the MarcoPolo has a flat bottom built dory style and is a very tough, seaworthy customer.
When i last sailed into Bar Harbor I was spotted by an old boat builder who'd made MarcoPolo's tender for a customer who then backed off. So he blythly rowed her around me to get my interest and even let me row her for a day. When he realized that I'm so cheap that the Indian has to ride that buffalo, he turned his blandishments on my Dad in hopes dad would see what a fine gift the little dink would make. I hoped he'd succeed but he is my dad and I didn't learn frugal all on my own. I had a dink. Why another?
But the day of rowing her sold me and I'll make one some day if I can just manage to break or loose the current dink. The MarcoPolo dink rows well loaded or light, handles any sea you're not afraid to look at and most you are afraid of, and will take more abuse than you have to offer anyway. Not a baby boat and not a boat in need of babying.
I admire the breadloaf - fits well on the deck of your New York 40 all finished bright - but I would have the marcopolo dink.
Originally posted by Ian McColgin:
- but I would have the marcopolo dink.There's your Winter project. I'll brrow the moulds after you've finished ;)
11-29-2004, 10:00 PM
Herreshoff pram in 'glass with MMD-designed sail rig:
i certainly hope the heirs to the hereshoffs are getting their share from each of those glass beauties.. in fact if its floats and looks a bit like a boat some designer ought to be getting a cut eh?
11-30-2004, 12:11 AM
The LFH pram in strip composite
Dutch, the folks who own the rights to the Herreshoff designs were contacted when the project was begun and informed of the intent to make one 'glass hull as requested by a client, and inquiries were made about fitting a sailing rig. Permission was granted and there is no conflict. I take my responsibilities as a professional designer quite seriously. Your innuendo is not appreciated.
11-30-2004, 07:33 AM
i dont have time to get into this discussion right now mmd, but the innuendo was not really directed at you or about your prams, they simply being a case i could point to in the current thread
11-30-2004, 01:21 PM
How could your comment be interpreted any other way than mmd took it?? You mentioned mmd and the pram specifically.
[ 11-30-2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]
That's how I took it, too. The slam wasn't needed, Dutch.
11-30-2004, 10:01 PM
what ever - want to fight?
12-01-2004, 06:52 AM
Were Dutch doing folk the courtesy of paying any attention at all, he'd have known mmd's integrity and, had he still felt the need to make a remark about royalties and permissions, he'd have said it without gratuitous insults.
Even after erring, he could have wasted less time with the simplest of apologies.
We hope, albeit with no evidence, that the shoddy truculence he displays here is not reflected in his boatbuilding.
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