Oselvar Faering Build

[lagspiller]

OK Lagspiller, I re-read your posts and I think I understand now. By raising the string to where the sheers meet the stems, you can sight over the string to get a straight line to which you can plane. If this is the technique, then I have an inch or two to take off the fronts and backs. The middles appear to be the lowest points.
---just to be sure I have explained myself well enough: the final half meter or thereabouts does NOT follow the string. At least, from a sighting taken from midships. Use the string until it begins to deviate at the ends.

The height of the freeboard midships is the measure that decides all the other points along the sheer. So start with that height, mark a few more along the string-sighting and then clamp a flexible batton along your marks. That is the 'ideal' line. Then you walk around and view the batton from all angles and 'tweak it' so it looks good. No boat follows exactly the 'ideal' line. A few mm up or down here and there is usually necessary.

Can't help much with the home-brew pine tar finish. I just buy it in a can. It is marketed under the label... 'Trekkfastolje'. Or 'Kystolje'
But from the info on the websites here, it appears you can make your own of a mix of 1/3 pine tar, raw linseed oil and real turpentine. It has a tendency to darken in the sunlight over the years, so it might be a good idea to keep it as light coloured as possible. 2-3 coats, wet on wet.
Trekkfastolje can be varnished over with a turp base varnish, so it won't transfer to your clothes on a hot day...

[tapsnap]

Here are some pictures of what my sheer lines look like now. Up to this point the only planing I have done is to get the obvious bumps out and the miss-match between the scarfs. I couldn't get a good picture of the string along whole length of the boat, so here are 4 shots that will kind of give you an idea of where I am.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/sheerlinestring1.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/sheerlinestring2.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/sheerlinestring4.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/sheerlinestring5.jpg



As you can see, the lines are not that far off. It's mainly at the front of the boat that I need to remove wood.

[Peerie Maa]

You may be need Lagspiller to answer this, but I am wondering if the inwales should be sprung in before trimming the shear, as they will change the shape of the shear line.

[tapsnap]

Hmm, that's a good point.

[Faering]

Hi!
I have recently noticed this blog, so I am a bit late with my comments. The drawing you use for building is probably not an Oselvar. I assume that could explain most of the differences that you have experiencing during the building. The text on your drawing states that it is a faering from Onarheim. Oselvar is not the only three plank boat.
However, an Oselvar do have some characteristics that are easy to notice, if you know what to look for.
I can see from your photos that the scarfs of fore and aft garboard are pointing in the same direction. On an Oselvar the scarf of the aft garboard is pointing in the opposite direction. Meaning the longest part of the scarf should be on the outside of the boat in the same way as the fore garboard. On an Oselvar, the scarfs of the garboard on each side of the keel most often form a “V” shape, pointing toward the middle of the boat. This is the case for both sets of gardboard, fore and aft, both pointing towards the middle of the boat. In the book you found the drawing, I think there is a drawing of an Oselvar also, and what I have written appears from that drawing (if you look at the location of the nails and the line indicating the scarf).
Another thing is that the garboard of an Oselvar is preferably shaped from a 3” thick plank in a shape that not can be obtained by steaming and twisting a thin board. (Though, there have been disagreements between the experts of the Oselvar on how to shape the garboard. Unfortunately most of those people who really managed the art of shaping the garboard have been dead for decades).
Else, you are doing a great job with your faering. I am highly impressed. :ycool:

[tapsnap]

Yes, I agree. I probably should have titled this thread "Three Plank Faering Build", but I started working on this project over a year and a half ago. Along the way, I have learned many things and I would now have done many things differently. Next time, I will know better. I am already collecting wood for another boat,

[lagspiller]

You are doing it right to trim the sheer before pressing the inwale and outwale (rubbing strake?) in place. The inwales go on later, after the third frame and the 'frame tops' (standing knees?) on the forward and middle frames, but before the 'canted frames' - rong.

The sheer lines look good. As I expected. But remember that I only gave photos from the ends because I didn't have anything better to illustrate what I was trying to explain. The only measure that matters is from midships, sighting along the string in both directions. The sheer is supposed to deviate from the sighting line at the bow and stern. Use the flexible batton to get a fair line for that area.

We talked about the scarf directions at the time you cut them. The way you made them is easier to get a perfect fit and is not uncommon in færings. The boatbuilder who showed us how is from Onarheim...

[tapsnap]

Lagspiller, when you say "supposed to deviate", should it deviate up or down? Looking at my lines, I could easily get the lines to be straight all the way to the stems. Is there a reason it important for it to deviate towards the stems?

[Peerie Maa]

I'll let Lagspiller confirm it but my bet is up, so that the shear does not look hogged or powderhorn. The Oselver in Faeroyvik rises quicker forward than aft.

[Peerie Maa]

You are doing it right to trim the sheer before pressing the inwale and outwale (rubbing strake?) in place. The inwales go on later, after the third frame and the 'frame tops' (standing knees?) on the forward and middle frames, but before the 'canted frames' - rong.


That is were Norway differs from Shetland. The top timbers lap over the inwale in Shetland work, whereas by fitting the top timbers first and cutting them down to take the inwales your top timbers will constrain the shape.

[Faering]

We talked about the scarf directions at the time you cut them. The way you made them is easier to get a perfect fit and is not uncommon in færings. The boatbuilder who showed us how is from Onarheim....

The scarf direction made is not only uncommon in faerings, it is the most common way to do it, apart from the Oselvar faering. That is the distinct difference. Do the boatbilder from Onarheim build Oselvar faerings?

[lagspiller]

Tysnes, Austevoll and Os are Oselver district. So, yes. He has. But we were not building Oselvers - ours were 4 board hardanger færing. But most all the færings here are Oselvers. When the Oselvarverkstaden was founded they had to bring in a neighbour as boatbuilder because he was one of the few still building them, at that time. Things are better now.

Tap, our building string was higher than yours. That may have made the difference.
The important thing is that you use a flexible batton and eye the line before you begin planing anything down. We did a lot of tweaking until we had a fair line running the length of the boat. Not just straight, but one that gave the right feeling of fullness. I think your line might look a bit 'pinched' if you follow the string slavishly - especially at the stems. Make a long batton and play with the line until you are happy with it. (Our batton was 2/3 the boatlength.)

[kwiv]

Lags and/or Taps, I want to make a model of this boat as a first boat building project. I follow the stem/keel/bevel/strake/scarf/caulk/rivet process, but how to fasten the garboard strake to the keel? I read about the descending bevel, but I do not see any fasteners nor any groove or lip in the keel that would hold the garboards.

Thanks in advance for explanation. Great trans-Atlantic thread guys!

[tapsnap]

The garboard is screwed to the stems. There is no beveled groove in the stem, instead the plank itself is beveled and that bevel fays against the stem. This is very different from the way most wooden boats are built where the plank end is square to the face side of the plank.

[lagspiller]

I'll just add it is first fastened to the stem at the upper 'tip' alone and pressed into place at the midships end. A movable strut to the strongback about 1/3 or a little more from the stem along the upper edge presses it out to the right shape.. After a few round of fitting, removing, adjusting and refitting and the board is adjusted to fight tightly, it is riveted along the keel and finally screwed to the stem as the last job.

[kwiv]

Thanks guys...I also re-read the thread and understand that the T shape of keel tapers to meet the stem, so strakes joining keel fit under the T lip. Why isn't the stem in a T as well? I'm guessing that narrower angle of bow/stern does not need that extra support?

[lagspiller]

The length under the keel 'T' is straight. But the bit that curves up along the stem causes all kinds of complex curves that must be matched to get a perfect fit between the strake and the stem. A 'T' there makes it very difficult to eyeball what needs adjusting and adds no strength. If you think about it, the press of the board is not upward, against the underside of the 'T' as it is along the length of the keel. The pressure is at an angle nearing 90 degrees into the stem.... A 'T' in that area can actually cause the board to be held AWAY from the stem if the board touches the T before it touches the face of the stem.

[Peerie Maa]

Thanks guys...I also re-read the thread and understand that the T shape of keel tapers to meet the stem, so strakes joining keel fit under the T lip. Why isn't the stem in a T as well? I'm guessing that narrower angle of bow/stern does not need that extra support?

The Shetland models also have no rebate in their stems. The "T" flange on their keel is made with a rolling bevel so that it fades away to upright on the stems to accommodate the rolling twist of the garboards, There is less twist in an Oselvars garboard but the principle still applies.

[kwiv]

Thanks for these explanations...interesting variation there Norwegian vs. Scotland. Lags I understand when you say If you think about it, the press of the board is not upward, against the underside of the 'T' as it is along the length of the keel.

So I'm building an 18" model based on this thread. Instead of carving out rebate in my 18" oak keel, I'm thinking of just screwing the first strakes directly to the top of the keel, which begs the question: does the T help with upward pressure?

Also am I right in observing that the top of the "T" is a separate piece screwed on to the top of the keel? I was under the impression it was carved out from one solid tree. And I can't see any pics of how the bottom strakes are fastened under the T...do they get screwed onto the top of T or onto the keel itself?

[Peerie Maa]

Traditionally the keel and its hog (the "T") are shaped from one piece of timber. There is nothing to stop you fabricating it out of two pieces.
The flanges of the "T" are necessary as the garboards are clinker nailed to them, until the plank rolls upright and blind nailing can be used. Without the flanges, you would have to skew nail, which is only strong enough with a standing garboard as used on the Ness Sgoths and drontheims.

Here is an image from the beginning of this thread.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4218847865_9679a377c7.jpgWhich illustrates how it is done.

[kwiv]

Thanks Nick, please explain "standing garboard" and also, rivet bottom strake to hog, or keel?

[tapsnap]

If you are building an 18" model, then just use glue and clamps. Fasteners, other than tiny nails, would just be too big.

[lagspiller]

I also have trouble seeing how you are going to fasten the garboard with screws or nails in a small model. Glue and clamp.

But to illustrate the technique in bigger boats...
http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3158.jpg
The keel is cut from a single plank. This is from my boat - making an adjustment to the 'T' before turning the material over and fixing in the building support.

http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3160.jpg

Fixing it in the supports. The 'T' ends where the stem is attached.

http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3161.jpg

...and once fastened together, the 'T' is cut back to symetry and given a long rolling bevel underneath that the garboard is able to follow without leaving any openings.

http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3167.jpg


http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3187.jpg
The garboard twists from vertical to horisontal along its length. When building, you have to apply a lot of pressure UPWARD at the centermost end of the garboard, pushing it very hard up against the bottom of the 'T'. It is fastened at the 'tip' at the stem end.... and there the board press' hard AWAY from the stem. In this photo, the board is fastened at the bow with a single screw, and is pressed up under the 'T' at the other end by a strut forced between the board and the workshop floor. The mid section of the board still needs a lot of adjusting to find the shape that will follow the keel/stem between the two endpoints.

Without the 'T', there would be nothing to press against along the keel, because most of the force used is upwards at that spot. That is not the case at the stem. Most of the force used there is directed into the stem. Look at the photos and think about what the board is trying to do to flatten out. The builder must press in the opposite direction.

[lagspiller]

http://22kvm.net/bilder/Robaat/album/slides/100_3192.jpg

Found a shot that shows the strut pressing the board up under the 'T'.

[Peerie Maa]

Thanks Nick, please explain "standing garboard" and also, rivet bottom strake to hog, or keel?

Standing garboard is a garboard that lies nearer to the vertical than horizontal. You can nail a standing garboard to the sides of a square section keel. A flatter garboard must be screwed or clinker nailed to a hog or the T flanges on a one piece keel. If you look at the picture in #270 you will see the garboard nails clenched over rooves along the top of the flange on the keel.

[kwiv]

Thanks Lags for description and pictures, that's really great, and Nick for explanation. I find that keel situation very interesting.

[Nedskan]

Hi there, I'm new on this forum and found this 'cause I was looking for some info to build a faering myself. Great to see how people from all over ,share their knowledge on this! I've been reading this thread with much pleasure and wow! What a beautifull faering you have build Tapsnap! Very nice of you to put so much time and effort in explaining, Lagspiller! Thanks to this thread, I can start building with a complete online instruction ,haha!
As soon as I finished my workshop, that is...
Kind regards, Menno (Netherlands, Zeeland)

[simonmags]

Hey Tapsnap, just checking in to see how the build is coming along, hopefully you've been able to spend a few more minutes on it here or there. I really like the lines of this style of boat. I've very much enjoyed the details you've show in this thread and the photos. It's great watching the conversations between you and lagspiller too :)

Cheers

[lagspiller]

So, Tap. How are things going?

I have managed to rivet in two frames and can begin planking the fourth and final board. The plan now is to get the second boat ready for water this summer. Don't know if that will happen, but that is the plan.
You?

[Peerie Maa]

Hi Lagspiller. Good to hear of progress, but we want proof. Where are the pictures? :d

[lagspiller]

The progress here has been so slow that showing pictures would embarass everyone.
The plan now is to get the hull finished so it can be brought home from the boathouse - and finish all the loose bits and details in the garage. Makes it easier to do a little work more often. Have to add the top strake, gunwales, the 3rd frame (that is glued up and ready for fitting to the hull already but can't go in until the top strakes are in place) and the canted frames.

Anybody heard from tapsnap? I'd like to know how he is getting on. Haven't seen a lifesign from him for ages.

[tapsnap]

Hello everyone!!! I just noticed that a few of you have been wondering what I have been up to. Well, I'm sorry to say there has not been much progress on the boat. I had no time at all to work on it all winter. I did make a little progress on the back frames, but that is about it. I am also held up by the fact that I cannot find a suitable naturally grown cross-brace for one of the frames. I keep asking around but it all gets cut up for firewood before I can get to it. I am also quite picky. I want it to be either black locust, white oak or mulberry.

Last week I did start work on my other boat. I want to be able to sail her this summer so I am adding a centerboard, rudder and mast and I have been sewing my first sail in the evenings when I can.

Anyway, I'm having problems with my FTP site so I can't post any pictures just yet, but I will when I get that working again.

[tapsnap]

Here is a picture of the progress.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/backframe1.jpg

[lagspiller]

Phew. Was beginning to wonder if the project had finished YOU instead of the the other way around...

[tapsnap]

Whoooohoo!!!!!!! I finally found a piece of white oak for my cross brace. It's taken about a year of actively seeking and I have kept my eye open for something that would do the job since I began this project.
http://www.danieloates.com/faering/crossbraceII2.jpg

It's the perfect angle too. I have had to delay work on this boat because of it. But now I am in the midst of working on my other boat so with the limited amount of time I have, it may take a few weeks before it gets riveted to the boat.

[lagspiller]

Good job, Tap.
We are not quite as demanding as you. Tomorrow I expect we will make the final section of the upper strake and the hull will finally be finished on our second boat.
Today was spent varnishing the floorboards in the first boat - it is ready for water again.
They are very sweet boats. You are going to appreciate how yours moves through the water.

[tapsnap]

Lagspiller, do you have any photos of this weekend's work? I'm interested in seeing how she is shaping up. This weekend I re-sawed the tree section in the photo to close to the final thickness and made a luan template for the cross-brace. The wood feels a little damp so I'm going to let it dry a while before trying to fit it.

[lagspiller]

Hei, Tap. Yes, I posted some photos in a separate topic so as not to enfringe on your build topic too much. Difficult to take good photos - everything looks so 'flattened'.

You are probably wise to wait a bit. The oak will probably not shorten much in the drying process, but still, you really don't want the brace pulling the strakes together after it is installed.

[skaraborgcraft]

Did you actually cut that hunk of oak with that handsaw,or was that just for artistic purposes?

[tapsnap]

No, ....Two circular saw cuts on each face, followed by the hand saw to join the two. I could have split it but I didn't want to chance a bad break. The hand saw was made in 1830 and it is a rip saw. It out performs any saw made these days, in my opinion.

[skaraborgcraft]

Any updates??

[Peerie Maa]

Bump. Yous OK?

[tapsnap]

Yes, I'm OK. I know I haven't checked in for a while. I was working on my other boat for most of this year and waiting for wood to dry. I'm about to get started on this boat again so I'll be posting pictures again soon.

Hope you guys are doing well.

[Peerie Maa]

Yes, I'm OK. I know I haven't checked in for a while. I was working on my other boat for most of this year and waiting for wood to dry. I'm about to get started on this boat again so I'll be posting pictures again soon.

Hope you guys are doing well.

Working on another boat? OK, you are forgiven.







When we see the pictures:D

[tapsnap]

Apart from waiting for the wood to dry sufficiently, I can't believe how long it took me to fit these frames. Anyway, they are done now so next weekend I'll be able to get on with the floorboards. The frames ended up being a mixture of woods; black locust, white oak, and mulberry. I painted pine tar between all the joints before riveting them into place. I'm now running low on 3 1/2" nails, so I will have to find more to rivet in the canted frames. regarding the canted frames, I got some bad news today. A black locust tree that I had been eying since last year has the perfect angle for these canted frames. The trouble is it is halfway down a steep ravine. I asked the owner for permission to go and retrieve it, and everything was OK until today when the land owner changed his mind. Apparently he considers it too dangerous for me to go down there with a chainsaw and get that piece out of there. It may be that I will have to glue them up after all.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/completedframes7.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/completedframes3.jpg

[emf]

Looking good. Nice to see you back at it.

There is nothing wrong with laminated frames as long as you use waterproof glue. Searching the woods for grown crooks and then having to wait for them to dry is a lot of work just for one boat.

[lagspiller]

Beautiful. Ready for gunwales/inwood.

[tapsnap]

I was rather dreading putting on the gunwales because I knew the pressure on the cedar planking would be enormous as I pulled them into place. I took the precautions of propping sticks up from the ground and jamming temporary cross-braces at the points of greatest pressure. I took my time pulling them in; in all about 20 minutes per side. Eventually they were in place and fully clamped down and I felt a wave of relief. The screws are all in place and the picture shows me leveling the tops. There is still more work to do on them but the hard stuff is done.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/gunwales7.jpg


http://www.danieloates.com/faering/gunwales10.jpg

[tapsnap]

I have been working on the front and back V shaped frames. I think they are called the "ronges"? I'm still fitting them to the boat but they are close now so maybe by the weekend the will be in place. I pieced them together using white oak knees which I extended in much the same way as one might make a stem for a boat. Its not ideal but maybe in the future I will replace them with one piece grown knees.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/ronge8.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

I have been working on the front and back V shaped frames. I think they are called the "ronges"? I'm still fitting them to the boat but they are close now so maybe by the weekend the will be in place. I pieced them together using white oak knees which I extended in much the same way as one might make a stem for a boat. Its not ideal but maybe in the future I will replace them with one piece grown knees.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/ronge8.jpg

The Shetlanders call them Stamrons, and fit them piece meal with clenched scarfs,
http://shetlopedia.com/images/6/6c/Six_332.JPG

[tapsnap]

Oh, that's interesting. That's pretty much the way I did mine. If you look carefully, you can see the scarfs. Mine are glued but will be strengthened by the rivets.

[Peerie Maa]

Oh, that's interesting. That's pretty much the way I did mine. If you look carefully, you can see the scarfs. Mine are glued but will be strengthened by the rivets.

I doubt that you will ever need to replace them with grown crooks, they will last the boat out.

[tapsnap]

I managed to get the "ronges" fitted and riveted yesterday. As usual, the pine tar made a huge mess but I feel great that all the frames are now done.
The floors are only roughly cut to size and fitting those will be my next task.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/rivetedronges2.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/rivetedronges3.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/rivetedronges4.jpg

[emf]

Nice fits. She is starting to look ship shape and Bristol fashion.Y>

I used raw linseed on the mating surfaces. Doesn't stain the wood. Of course not an issue if you pine tar the hole boat.

[skaraborgcraft]

What finish are you going to go for, tar the whole boat,oil,varnish?

[tapsnap]

I'm considering tar. Do you have a good tar mix recipe?

[emf]

Equal parts pine tar, linseed oil and turpentine. You can add some japan dryer to speed the drying.

[lagspiller]

Be sure you accept owning a black boat before using pine tar. It looks great in the beginning, but darkens to black in the sun after a few years. It is also hard to re-finish as the tar rejects/bleeds through most other surfaces.

[tapsnap]

How black do you mean by black? Do you have a picture example? I like the finish of this pram. Will it get much darker than this?

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/pram.jpg

[emf]

I've had success varnishing over the boat soup when it drys which will prevent the darkening and add some gloss to the finish. The oil, I believe stabilises the wood and helps the varnish hold up over time.

[lagspiller]

How black do you mean by black? Do you have a picture example? I like the finish of this pram. Will it get much darker than this?

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/pram.jpg
It continues to get darker and darker until it pretty much looks like the seats. The speed of the colour change depends on the amount of sunlight.
If you use something like Benar (I believe that is imported to the usa) it has UV inhibitors - but even that darkens.

I've seen old færings that were used as rough workboats treated with a pinetar solution, but I don't have a photo. Most are given a brighter finish. Benar or varnish. I gave mine 20 coats of penetration oil and then finished with 5 coats of Epifanes varnish. Looks good - especially after the first year in the sun when the wood has turned golden from the original white.

[skaraborgcraft]

My Vattern snipa is pine tar treated. See thread http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?120749-Vrixlos-Swedish-Lake-Vattern-Snipa-Sail-and-oar-boat-Who-needs-a-Ness-Yawl


http://lh3.ggpht.com/_gUpb8xLo0r4/TKsaZzU0HPI/AAAAAAAAACs/tycVLhKgYTY/s512/PICT1715.JPG

I would concur with the EMF ratio of tar/linseed and turps, on a new build i would add some clear cuprinol wood preserver too. I found a wipe on coating of tung oil on rails and seats will give a nice shine and stop your hands and butt getting sticky in hot weather. I would have no other finish on a boat like this, an absolute pleasure to maintain. Not everyone likes the look though. Your boat would not look as balck as this for some years though.Cheers

[tapsnap]

I just finished the floors today. I used rivets rather than screws to secure them.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/floors.jpg

This is the view from the upper floor of my barn.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/fromabove.jpg

[emf]

"Aah! She's a fine water craft she is" Said the rather salty looking gent, when looking over my small plywood boat building project. He lived on a small wooden schooner(Atkin design I belive). Born 100 years to late.

You might want to drill a hole big enough to get a finger in for pulling up your floors for cleaning etc.

[tapsnap]

I've been working on the kjeips (Oarlocks). I don't have any dimensions to work from, so I have been relying on pictures I see on the web. They are made from the red oak crotches that I got from a neighbor. Red oak isn't a durable wood, I know, but I figure they are easy enough to replace. If their proportions look wrong, please advise.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/kjeips7.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/kjeips5.jpg

[skuthorp]

She is looking quite beautiful tapsnap and I've been reading the comments re tar finishes and sun darkening. It's been up round 90f here on and off for weeks now and I wondered if a tar finish would ever effectively dry in our climate. My shop is uninhabitable except at night at this time of year and I would be concerned it would remelt every summer. A bit messy on the trousers.

[tapsnap]

I'm getting close to the point that I will be hand sanding before applying finish. I will have to see how see looks after. Maybe the tar stains won't be as apparent then and I can use a oil or varnish. If not, then pine tar might be the best option. I think in hot weather the pine tar does sweat but it also soaks deeper into the wood. I would imagine that eventually the transfer of tar to your clothes becomes less of an issue.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/faering.jpg

[skuthorp]

Thanks tapsnap. Maybe in hot climes a tad more turpentine in the mix would allow more penetration. I have a container of pine tar left over from my wooden ski days so I might try an experiment on a piece of Douglas Fir. Sheis looking good, what rig are you contemplating? I have the drawings for an Oughtred Elf in my shop library but so far have not gotten round to a build.

[tapsnap]

Skuthorp, I haven't decided on the rig yet. That will be a project for next winter. I really like the look of the square rig for these boats but I know that would be quite limiting. It might be the traditional spirit and jib.

[skaraborgcraft]

Thinning tar with turps will get it to penetrate more,it is true in hot weather it can become sticky. I found a coat of tung oil over the pine tar not only made it look incredibly glossy it also helped to put a skin over the sticky tar, never had an issue after and the tung oil is a real nice oil anyway.

[lagspiller]

You've come a long way, Tap.
The traditional rig on these boats is a sprit. I'm not sure if that isn't what you mean when you write 'square'. If you are thinking square - hung from the middle of the sail - it isn't used on these. Never seen it.
The oldest sails I've seen (and used) dated back about 100 years. The main was absolutely square, attached along the mast on one side, sprit boom to the upper, outward corner and no boom (club footed?). There were holes drilled at right angles through the gunwale within easy reach behind the aftermost seat for the sheet - a simple two-stranded block & tackle. Double block at the lower sail corner and a single block attached to a long, iron pin - looked somethink like a big darning needle, about 5 inches long. When in use, that was stuck throught the gunwale and stayed in place because it 'jammed' when the sail was pulled in. On the opposite tack, the pin was moved to the opposite side. Before the mast, a small jib - no mast overlap. The mast had a mastfoot on the keelson, was wedged in place through a hole in the forward seat and had one stay on each side. No turnbuckle - just iron hooks mounted on rings in the gunwale. Flip the hook up, slip the stay through, tighten and tie off with a 'stay-knot'.
It was an easy rig to use for a fisherman and sailed just fine.
The modern rig is the same except for a boom and more modern fittings for mast and sail adjustment.

[tapsnap]

Thanks Lagspiller. It would be great to see that setup in pictures at some point. The Spirit rig is probably what I will go with. I think I was mistaken by this picture. It's a three planked Hardanger seksaering.

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Hardanger Boat.jpg

Interestingly, in the book "Inshore Craft of Norway", it says that the square rig was common into the nineteenth century.

"The boats of south eastern Norway have been spirit rigged since the seventeenth century. Before that time, they were probably square rigged, like the boats of the west and the north. In these parts of the country, all boats were square rigged until well into the nineteenth century, when spirit rigging was gradually taken into use in the districts south of Bergen. After 1860-70 the gaff rig slowly replaced the square sail in northern Norway and in the south this new rig competed with the spirit sail".

[timo4352]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. The fearing and workmanship on it are just beautiful. Some day I'd like to be able to do the same. Great job.
On the sails - have you considered a split lug? I think it has that old world look, and would look great on the fearing. There is a little written about it in The Sailmaker's Apprentice.
http://www.luckhardt.com/marshall3.jpg

[tapsnap]

Thanks Timo, That is an unusual rig. Where does that come from?

[lagspiller]

I didn't mean to imply that the square rig wasn't in common use - just that I haven't seen it on an Oselvar. It probably stayed in use much longer on the bigger boats because they naturally had more men onboard. The square rig is much more difficult to sail with little crew than a sprit. I know a guy who managed one alone in a local boat type (Brugdebåt - used for hunting whale shark) about the size of a seksæring, but I've never figured out how he managed to bring the clews around the at the same time as steering and handling the bowline&bras (the 6 lines controlling the edges of the sail). Steering and the controlling lines are handled from the stern while the clues must be moved from point to point on both sides of the mast and on both sides of the boat. He did capsize once on a beam reach when a wind puff was a bit more than he was fast. He lost some of the floorboards in that swim.

The sprit, rigged as I described, is even more simple to rig than a square rig with just as few parts to clutter up the boat when not in use (for example, while fishing). The sail could be lowered, but usually it was just rolled around the mast after that was taken down. Sprit boom pops off and with no lower boom, it was simply a matter of rolling the mast to wind the sail up. The main sheets were loose when the iron pin was pulled out of the gunwale. The stays could be released by a quick tug on the knot. That untensioned the jib - which functioned as the forward mast stay - and that was unhooked. 3 things to pull-release, one to unhook, roll the sail and everything is stowed. Rigging went just as fast. And they sail well.
This is probably why they took over so completely in the færings.

That split lug sail rig was interesting. Never even heard of such a thing. How does it sail compared to a sprit or gaff?

[tapsnap]

Lagspiller, do you know where I might find sail plans for a traditional spirit sail for this boat? Does anyone have dimensions posted somewhere on the web?

[skaraborgcraft]

There are sprit rigged boats on Bertil Anderssons swedish workboats site. I have a few sets of his plans, though the sail component will only be a guide rather than an accurate plan, but close enough to work from in my opinion.

www.batritningar.se

[lagspiller]

http://mildebatlag.org/oselvarklubben/Klasseregler_Oselvar-28nov2000.pdf
These are the official rules for the Oselvar racing classes. The mast, rig and sails are described on page 15-20.
Your boat would be the spritseil klasse (sprit sail class) - 8 sq.meters. Mast height max 4.40 meters.
The other dimensions are given in formulas so a sailmaker can design a sail.

I could measure a sail and try to give some angles, but I'm no sailmaker. I have no idea how to measure the depth and luff so you get a sail with the right shape and not just a flat trapizoid hanging on the mast.

[lagspiller]

See specially page 19, at rule G.1.3.1.1 'special class limitations" where the spritsail is mention 3 times...
sail edge at mast (mastelik) max 3.05 meters
sail edge opposite of mast (akterlik) max 4.15 meters
and variable "a" in the formula for calucalting sail area... leading edge of the jib (fokkens forlik) - max 3.55 meters

[tapsnap]

Great, thank you; that's a lot of help. I think I can figure it out from these dimensions.

[WCM]

It is a beautiful boat that you have built. I know nothing really about sails beyond observing that a balanced lug is sort of squarish looking and traditional in appearance. Iain Oughtred uses it in his faering design ELFYN. http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/images/elfyn2plan.jpg.

Anyway, mainly I just want to say that you have built a great looking boat. I'm sure that you will come up with a rig that will look nice and be manageable too.

[tapsnap]

Thank you, WCM, but I'm not quite there yet. I still have a few things to take care of before I lift her off the building frame.

[emf]

You might want to look at Duckworks sailmaker. His sails are quite resonable in price and I have heard good things about the quality. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/sails.htm

[odinsman]

Hi. I am new, here. I have been reading through this thread, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me how deep the keel is on an oselvar, I believe it is deeper than other types of faering, and on a racing oselvar? I have searched the web and I can't seem to find that bit of info, anywhere. Thanks.

[tapsnap]

The Keel starts out 5"X3" and the tongue part extends about 4" (10cm). I'm not sure about the restrictions given to racing Oselvars.

[lagspiller]

In post 328 in this topic I gave the official measurement rules for the Oselvar. The boats have of course been built completely individual measurements as any traditional workboat - they were special, one off designs, adjusted individually to the needs and use the owner planned for the boat. But the Oselvar club has made a standardized list of maximum/minimum measurements to be allowed for the Oselvar class.
I posted those rules above in this topic.

The answer to your question about keel depth is found in section D.3. Unfortunately for you, in Norwegian. But wait for it - there is help available.
Google translate is a friend, but gives some odd word-choices that might make understanding everything difficult. Feel free to ask. I and other norwegian speakers are around.

Here's the short version:
The minimum depth of the keel is 4 cm at the joint between the "lot" in the bow area and the keel, and 3 cm at the "Lot" in the stern. The Lot is the section where the keel begins to curve up to the stem. The backbone of an Oselvar is the straight keel in the middle, a Lot at either end where the initial curve begins, and a Stem on top of that rising to the 'upper tips' of the "keel". The 'keel depth measuring point' in the bow and stern is in the middle of the joint between the Lot and the keel. 4-4-3. (Sounds like a football defense).
Those are the minimum depths.

The table towards the bottom of section D3 is the maximum depths. Same measuring points. 8-13-13.1 cm. Same measuring points.

The rules also state that you are allowed to add a separate section of keel to the boat - we call it a 'sailing keel'. I've never seen one much more than 6-8 cm deep. But the rules state depth is unrestricted - the owner may decide shape and depth. The trade-off here is that Oselvars are not quick boats to tack. Untrained will have difficulty getting past the windeye at all. A sail keel makes them more difficult to bring about and you lose more speed doing it.
But it also gives an advantage in tracking and upwind ability.
The sail keel must be bolted onto the boat, not something you do before a race. So the sail keels are a balance between upwind ability and agility.

[odinsman]

Wow! That is an awesomely thorough answer. Exactly what I have been searching for. Yes, I did see that post. I did use that link but the language was an issue. Thank you so much. I will have to check out Google translate.

[tapsnap]

Every now and again, during the process of building this boat, I have thought about a suitable name that I could paint on her bow. Today it suddenly occurred to me that I have never seen a name painted on these boats. A quick check on the web confirmed what I thought. Do these boats even have names, and if so, are they carved or painted somewhere on the inside of the boat?

[odinsman]

That's an interesting point. I know the Viking longships had names but, as far as I know, they didn't have them carved in the ship, anywhere. I haven't seen any photos, of one of the originals, that had a name carved, in runes, anywhere on it. Some are highly carven, but I don't recall a "name plate". But they did name them. Names were, sometimes, carved on swords, so it's not because names have power and they didn't want a visible name to grant someone else power over the named object. since it's probably a tradition that comes from those days, I will be curious to see what answer pops up.

[emf]

My friend from Bergen had a name made at a print shop for his boat. This was at Bellingham bay Washington state. The owner of the boat in the stern and some of you might reconise (skin boat) David Gentery rowing.http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8559021699_bf81e23c0d_c.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

To measure the sail all you need are the edge lengths and a diagonal (clew to throat or tack to peak). It would be unusual for them to regulate the draft, since there would be no advantage to making it unusually deep or shallow, so that is usually left up to the sailmaker. They might regulate the depth of any possible additional area (leech roach, foot round, etc.) and they might specify a maximum aspect ratio, but you generally don't even have much of that on spritsails. The rest is a matter of getting the proportions right. Even those old, square-ish sprits can look reasonably elegant or pretty awkward, depending on the proportions and how high above the gunwale they're set. The newer ones mostly seem to be peaked up more, typical of modern spritsails.

For the most bang for your buck in that type and size Faering-style boat, the single balanced lug (like Oughtred is using on some of his boats) is probably going to be the clear winner in the performance vs. convenience category. It also liiks pretty good on that hull shape (everybody wave at Stephen and Gavin)

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sails%20and%20Plans/Bauer's%20Elf.jpg

I've even built a couple which were regular balanced lugs, but had a more squaresail-ish profile (lower peaks with slightly hollowed luff, leech and foot). They probably won't go upwind quite as well as the higher-peaked lugs, but shouldn't be too far behind and will give some of that squaresail cosmetic flavor while maintaining the ease of handling of the lug. We call them "Squgsails".

A regular balanced lug and a Squg of similar sizes.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sails%20and%20Plans/65%20Contender%20Lug.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sails%20and%20Plans/squg-006a.jpg

[lagspiller]

Simplicity is an art. I've never sailed a balanced lug, but I would expect the weight of the sail & rig behind the mast enough to tension the leading edge of the sail? And in heavier wind, the sheet acts to add tension through the leverage of the boom? Perhaps not as good as a mast for leading edge control, but far better than the square sail from which it evolved.

What you lose in this rig is the jib and the slot effect on the main. You don't need a sprit boom, but you also lose most (all?) ability to control the shape of the main. And you lose the special feature of the Oselvar rig, the jib-boom hinged from the mast. For downwind work, the jib-boom is released from the bow fitting and is swung out from behind the main. It can be brought out as far as the shroud - slightly more than 90 degrees to port/starboard. After swinging out, the jib is trimmed to draw like a jib does when sailing on a beam or broad reach. Leading edge tension is achieved with a downhaul on the jib-boom. This not only makes the jib more effective, it also increases power in the main by increasing wind flow over the back of the sail.
Certainly not the artistic simplicity of the balanced lug, but more drive. And more stuff to play with for the trimming freaks among us.

Tap - the Oselvars usually have a plaque with the name engraved (router), mounted on the hull just under the inwale in the stern section - if the name is displayed at all.

[lagspiller]

Found a picture...
http://www.mildebatlag.org/pic/ox-21.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

I think it all depends on your basic aiming point and use. If you are looking to fleet race and be compeitive, there is no question that the modernized rig with the North radial sails (they've essentially just turned a spritsail into their version of a modern square-topped main) battened leech roaches, jib on a pole, etc. or equivalent is what you're going to need. To some of us though, that looks, and is, totally out of place on a pine-tarred Oselver. We have the same thing going on over here with the big old stern-steerer iceboats. Some of these boats have been actively competing for over a century and during that time, their original gaff rigs and clubbed jibs have been upgraded and/or replaced numerous times. The current rigs on them look much more like they belong on a Melges 24 than on a famous old iceboat. You can't blame them for making performance changes over the years, but they certainly don't have the classic beauy and ambiance that the lovingly restored old iceboats from the Hudson River Ice Yacht Club have. Racing has done some great things for sailing in terms of spawning new developments to go faster. At the same time, it's also done some things that some of us don't care for. In a case like this, it makes me wonder why they don't just give in and start building self-bailing hulls with foam cores and carbon fiber to go with those hot-shot rigs, because they obviously threw tradition overboard a long time ago. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

For the typical recreational sailor, or one that is more likely to use his boat for cruising or tripping, about all I'd have to say in defense of the balanced lug would be to point at one of the modernized Oselvers and say "How fast can you get that thing up, or take it down in a blow?". Though I'm sure those rigs are quite efficient and fast, they just kind of remind me of pancakes in a can, or those god-awful modern in-line-muzzle-loader rifles. Just not my cup of tea. YMMV

[lagspiller]

I understand the sentiment, Todd. But for the record, while the 'fabric' is new, the rig is not. Without looking for the exact answer, the Oselvar series is the oldest unbroken (with the exception of the occupation years) race series in the world far as I know. It dates back to around 1880-90 (I believe I recall that correctly)... and the rig is basically unchanged. The 'traditionalists' here do wrinkle their nose at the racing crowd (which by far represents the majority of sailing Oselvar at a figure approaching 100%) - but their rigs are the same. The difference being natural sailcloth, wooden spars and sometimes a loose-footed main. But otherwise, the same.

I think, also, that the idea that fishermen were not competitive and among the first to take into use anything that would give them the competitive advantage, is a romantic fallacy. Fishermen are anything other than museum guardians. Even when they play, they play to win.

To my eye, the balanced lug looks very odd on a færing. Never seen anything like it here, at least. So, if you want to go old & trad, there is nothing that will compare with the square sail shown on the seksæring above. That sails well with a competent crew and looks traditionally correct. Anything other than the square sail and the sprit looks out of place.

[Peerie Maa]

I think it all depends on your basic aiming point and use. If you are looking to fleet race and be compeitive, there is no question that the modernized rig with the North radial sails (they've essentially just turned a spritsail into their version of a modern square-topped main) battened leech roaches, jib on a pole, etc. or equivalent is what you're going to need. To some of us though, that looks, and is, totally out of place on a pine-tarred Oselver. We have the same thing going on over here with the big old stern-steerer iceboats. Some of these boats have been actively competing for over a century and during that time, their original gaff rigs and clubbed jibs have been upgraded and/or replaced numerous times. The current rigs on them look much more like they belong on a Melges 24 than on a famous old iceboat.
Same thing has happened in the Shetlands, but it has kept the class alive.
These are the modern Shetland models.
http://boatsforsalenow.com/Man_Shetland/..%5CBoatImages%5CShetlandsDoubleEnder.jpg
which developed over 50 years from one of these:

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/peerie_maa/Idiot%20proof/DSC01039.jpg

and are also still raced with the original square sail as well as the highly tuned bermudan sloop rig.
http://www.billyfoxphotography.com/images/IMG_3364.jpghttp://www.billyfoxphotography.com/images/IMG_3566.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

The difference being natural sailcloth, wooden spars and sometimes a loose-footed main. But otherwise, the same.

...along with computer-designed tri-radial-cut sails, battened leech roaches and a bunch of modern hardware. I guess it's the same rig if you don't look too closely at it. I still don't know why they don't ditch those old wooden tubs and build some modern hulls to hang all that hardware on, instead of pretending they're traditional boats and hoping nobody notices.



I think, also, that the idea that fishermen were not competitive and among the first to take into use anything that would give them the competitive advantage, is a romantic fallacy

I take it you've done a lot of fishing with a rig like that?????

[lagspiller]

Well, Todd. The sprit rig was, in fact, the rig used by the fishermen who made their living fishing these boat part of the year. In its simplest form, it has no more parts than your lug - as I have described and explained in a post above. It was also quick to raise and quick to strike. So, the answer to you question is yes, the sprit rig has caught a lot of fish over the past century.

Since we are talking history today, it might also be interesting to mention the social-political side of the question. You have already touched on it a couple times implying that the racing rig is the plaything of the rich and a lug is more true to the spirit of things.
The problem with that picture is that it isn't true. The Oselvar, with its traditional sprit sail, was not raced by the rich and famous of the day. They had their own clubs, sailed their specialized funboats built to the square meter rule or international rule. The sprit was raced by the fishermen, at times of the year that fit the rythmn of the fishing season & farming season (because his boat had to do both jobs), he used the only boat he owned, and could afford to add only small, inexpensive 'race parts' to the rigs... a boom, for example, which he could make himself. And any changes to boat or rig HAD to take into account it main function as workhorse for the owner.
The present rig has evolved over the decades. But it is still, very obviously, the same rig. The highest tuned racing Oselvar could still be sailed and fished by the poor fisher-farmer if a time machine were to transport one back to him. And I am quite sure he would pleased. Even with the stiff, high-tech sails. If the boom gets in the way, it will still work as a loose-footed main. With quick-release shroud knots (vantknutar), the same rig and sails could be dropped and stowed in a couple of minutes... pull the mainsheet needle from the gunwale, two pulls at the shrould release them, unhook the jib stay, roll around mast. Hey presto. Its stowed.

So, is the slow evolution of the sprit to the present fancy, stiff sail cloth less 'traditional' than transplanting a completely foreign rig, borrowed from a different tradition and never seen on these boats in their place of origin more in keeping with tradition because it only uses old materials? Does the frozen-in-time aspect trump the evolutionary spirit of actual people who have used the boats? Do you see the irony of claiming 'tradition' based on not choosing modern materials when the tradition in this boat-culture is the opposite? Which concept of tradition makes the boat 'a plaything of the rich'?

If the change in appearance of the modern sprit rig is such a problem to your traditional eye ("don't look too close"), why doesn't the total replacement of the rig (don't even have to look close) bother your sense of tradition? It does bother mine - even more than the plastic sails do.

[Todd Bradshaw]

We obviously have different viewpoints. I have no problem with the traditional Norse sprit rig. But most of what you just stated about the humble fishermen really has little or nothing to do with the boats in the photo above. It may have a sprit instead of a rooster batten up top, but it's a modern, square-topped radial Mainsail and "stiff fabric" is merely a minor part of the difference. You're kidding yourself if you actually believe those rigs have anything to do with fishermen or tradition. The eye sees what it wants to see.

As to the lug being inappropriate on a faering and offending your sense of tradition, it may not have been used on Oselvers, but lugsails were used in other areas on traditional boats that were similar.
"Variations of this standard rigging occurred on the north-west coast fishing-boats and on the jeckts. In Sunnmore, a large dipping lugsail has been used at least since the middle of the eighteenth century"
"During the latter half of the nineteenth century, the dipping lug, although with slight modifications, was adopted by the neighboring districts of Nordfjord and Nordmore" (Page 19 of "Inshore Craft of Norway" - sorry, I don't have the slash for the o's on my keyboard)

There is even a measured drawing from on page 93 of a Sunnmorsbaten from1900 with a pretty typical standing lug sloop rig, similar to what you might find on traditional-styled small boats all over the world these days. "The Treoring retained a good deal of the old shape, but these boats too were gradually built deeper, and their rigging was changed from the old dipping lug to a standing lug, known as a "marineseil"

Since the dipping lug is a royal pain in the ass to use on a recreational boat, and I believe his thread is actually about a boat that will be used recreationally rather than with class racing in mind, the balanced lug would be the easiest way to achieve a similar lug profile in a sail that is easy to deal with - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if a balanced lug outperformed a lot of traditionally-done sprit sloops, despite not having a slot. It will certainly outperform them from a convenience standpoint. Personally, I'd find either a traditionally built sprit sloop or a lug borrowed from a neighboring area preferable to an old wooden hull design with a modified Melges rig on it. When he gets this one done, we should pop a mold off of that sucker and start shooting them with a chopper gun with bass boat sparkles in the gelcoat. At least the modern racing rig would look like it belonged, and I think I still have a couple rolls of Kevlar sailcloth left from my radial sail days. :)

[lagspiller]

Jepp. We see this different. I see it like the fishermen and sons of fishermen still sailing these boats. I see the rig fundamentals and how it has developed in a series of small steps. I know the coastal areas, especially from the area I live and northward, all have fiercly guarded traditions about their local boat types. It doesn't work like a mix&match shop where elements from one area can be swopped around freely and dropped in another tradition. The friends of the coastal association will definitely look down their nose at the racing rigs in the photo... but changing the entire rig to something completely different would probably incite an odd look and a polite 'how interesting'. It is kind of a step beyond discussing, irregardless of how dated the material or production technique might be.
I'm sure that in circles without the long history of these boats in their cultural backbone, mixing and matching elements from different traditions looks and functions OK.
But here, you might just as well suggest using a djunk rig. Or building the hull with a northern type stem. Mylar sails may start an argument, but mixing traditional elements is a madness beyond that. It just isn't done - because it would be 'history-less'.

[Todd Bradshaw]

And North sails computer design program has so much Norse history. It would certainly be a shame to spoil it......... Just keep telling yourself that and keep your blinders on tight.

[tapsnap]

Eeeeeasy boys.
When I get round to making a sail, which will probably be next winter, I'm pretty sure it will be a traditional spirit and jib made out of Dacron with a wooden mast and hemp rigging. The last sail I made, was hand stitched cotton canvas and the only reason this one would not also be, is that is took about 2 months to make; working nightly for about 2 hours. Close up, it looks great, but from about thirty feet no-one can tell the difference. I have an industrial sewing machine sitting in the corner of my work room that just needs dusting off and oiling and I reckon that I'll have a sail in about a week and a half. I have no intention of racing, just casual daysailing.
I did have a question about the way the mast sits in the mast step. I always thought that the spirit sail mast should be free to rotate in the mast step, but I see that on these boats there is a rectangular slot in the mast step rather than a round one thus allowing no movement in the mast. I take it the mast is deliberately stopped from rotating because of the shrouds. Is this correct? So the movement should be in the sail or rather in the method it is laced to the mast. Are robands ever used?

[Peerie Maa]

According to Faeroyvik they are laced to the mast

[skaraborgcraft]

My sprit main used to have wooden hoops,but i replaced with robands. The mast foot is a bit of a modern twist, and has an metal plate on the keelson with the centre part raised about 1in off the keel, the mast has a metal rod inserted into the base which goes through a hole in the metal plate. The mast is free to turn on the plate, seems to work well,if not exactly traditional. If you want a photo of the set up, i can sort some out.

[skaraborgcraft]

Found a picture...
http://www.mildebatlag.org/pic/ox-21.jpg
Wow, thats some high tech looking sails there! If i turned up with a set like that on snipa racing day,the local Swedes would have a fit..........i best get myself some!

Notice the boom is longer than the foot of the mainsail......why?

[skaraborgcraft]

And having read the remaing part of the thread, and not wishing to start a debate, when i put my balanced lugsail on my snipa, it was far easier to deal with and performed better than the sprit, the locals wont let me take part in the races with that rig......says it all really.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Usually you want a sprit rig's mast to rotate as freely as possible, which helps to keep the snotter/sprit tension pretty even from tack to tack. That tension is the major factor in head tension, which itself is the major factor in adding or removing draft from the upper part of the sail. On a fixed mast, the sprit tension tends to be a bit tighter on one tack and a bit looser on the other tack, which generally isn't as good for performance.

Adding shrouds can complicate the issue. Mast rotation would be constantly changing shroud tension as well, and in turn, probably also be changing headstay tension. This then will be causing the jib luff to sag at times, likely increasing jib draft beyond what the sailmaker had in mind, and also be changing the slot between main and jib. The way this problem is usually handled on boats with shrouds and rotating masts (beach catamarans and most iceboats would be common examples) whould be to connect your headstay and shrouds to a single shackle and connect that shackle to a single eye or fitting on the front side of the mast. At that point, the mast can rotate as needed without making much change in the shroud or headstay tensions.

On a boat like #21 above, they have a luff boltrope in a groove in the aft side of the mast as the luff attachment, and the footrope in a groove in the boom. With that fully-battened main, they would either need to do this, or stick a track on the aft side of the mast and use batten cars to keep the batten ends from pushing the luff ahead of the mast, as it would do with hoops, robands or lacing. The sprit, snotter and boom jaws would be free to rotate with the mast if it does indeed rotate. Looks like they also have a boom vang and a downhaul to the boom jaws rigged, which could also rotate with the mast to provide uniform tension from tack to tack, jibe to jibe if desired. With the shrouds and headstay leading up to a fitting at the masthead, the mast could pretty easily be set up to rotate like it would on a Hobie Cat, if their class rules allow it (which I don't know). Quite often, there will also be a mast rotation control rigged on the boom for a rotating mast on a high-performance rig (masts sometimes tend to over-rotate and this adjusts the amount of rotation that is allowed). I don't see one on that boat, so it's hard to say. It could also be built at the mast step, which we wouldn't be able to see. Combine all that stuff and you essentially have a modern, square-topped Marconi rig, and the only difference is using a sprit instead of a batten or masthead crane to hold the mainsail's peak corner out.

For a typical recreational sprit sloop things will be a lot less complex and unless you have a knotmeter in your hand, the aid or handicap of having a rotating or non-rotating mast isn't likely to make an awful lot of performance difference. Still, if it can be allowed to rotate without complicating the issue too much, it's usually desirable. Lacing, hoops and robands would all work pretty well. I like Jack Dillon's toggle/robands for ease of use when attaching or detaching the sail from the mast. If your spritsail has a reef line, they might also make putting in or taking out a reef easier.

[lagspiller]

The discussion of which is 'most traditional' is not going to be won by anyone. Different areas - different weighting of the arguments. Here, it is as I have said. If people in other places want to think they know tradition better than the locals, fine by me. If they care to try to understand how the people that developed the boats think, I've done my best to explain it. As I said, I see the irony of some people's positions. They don't. Life goes on.

I quit the coastal association when I realized their def of coastal culture would never include my old 22sq.meter. It was a 'rich man plaything' and they were not interested. It doesn't fit in the modern fleets. Its just a beautiful old boat deserving of being taken care of - and as much a part of coastal history as any other. I get so tired of shallow people and all their rules. History develops as it does, and none of the boats of their times are 'wrong'.
(And anyone who doesn't think fishermen are the most inventive and competitive people around, doesn't know fishermen.)

Tap - the masts are wedged in the 'seiltoft' - the bench with the masthole. That makes them stronger (the 'S' curve thing) than a mast that is only fastened at top and bottom (a 'C' curve). The mast can't turn much if it is wedged.
And if you ever are in the area here with your boat, you would have no problem racing with the fleet if you care to do so. If you don't give your sail the right shape, you can borrow a rig.

[lagspiller]

Wow, thats some high tech looking sails there! If i turned up with a set like that on snipa racing day,the local Swedes would have a fit..........i best get myself some!

Notice the boom is longer than the foot of the mainsail......why?
Hehe... But as long as nobody else uses them, you don't need them. You can achieve the same result by suggesting a rule change to allow them. Much cheaper.

I think the boom length is mostly to get the sheeting out of the way and the 'right' bredth for the triangle sheeting. But then one guy began testing out the use of a topping lift to change sail shape at the leech. After that, everybody was suddenly playing with a topping lift. That has to be far enough back to avoid conflict with the main leech around the upper batten.

[skaraborgcraft]

Hehe... But as long as nobody else uses them, you don't need them. You can achieve the same result by suggesting a rule change to allow them. Much cheaper.

I think the boom length is mostly to get the sheeting out of the way and the 'right' bredth for the triangle sheeting. But then one guy began testing out the use of a topping lift to change sail shape at the leech. After that, everybody was suddenly playing with a topping lift. That has to be far enough back to avoid conflict with the main leech around the upper batten.

Im the only boat in the fleet still using cotton sails. Admittedly i take part for fun,the only rule i know of is similar to yours being a limit on sail area which i believe is 10sq metres. Everyone else has dacron sails,some have aluminium sprits and booms and a few have shrouds. In theory, as long as the sail area stays the same, it looks like anything goes. I have just laid out a pattern for a new sail in dacron, and now i have seen that picture im having second thoughts. However i have a solid pole mast, and i dont see how full length battens are going to work on that, and i have no intention or desire to build a new mast for one days racing a year. The other sail with the lays of the cloth running in the opposite direction of what would be traditional looks interesting, but im not sure how i can cut the panels to achive the right shape except by broad seaming the head and foot which i have been reliably informed will not give me the correct shape.

The over long boom maes sense if it works like you say. I did try a temporay boom and it made a significant difference to headstay tension, and made sheeting the main a little easier.

Do you have any detail photos of how your snotters are set up? Reefing is one of the issues i have with this rig, but maybe my snotter set up is not optimal.

[lagspiller]

No, I don't have any photos of the snotter at hand. I can look or try to remember to take a photo next time I have the chance.

The snotter
The spritboom hangs in a loop on a small 4-struck block & tackle attached to the mast. The line (I guess it is about a 4mm braided line) passes through a clamcleat for easy adjustment. That is about it. The press from the spritboom is never enough to give trouble. One of the forward crew - mainman or jibman - has the job of keeping it adjusted. Tacking, windshifts, different points of sail... all affect the trim.

Full length battens are not allowed in the Oselver. Far as I know. I've never seen a boat with them at least. I think you are looking at panel seams and thinking they are battens. The battens on sail nr. 21 are seen in the middle of the panels above and below the sail nr.
The cloth as gone through a number of evolutions since I began in the '80s. There was a terrible period 10 years ago when the sails looked and sounded like cellofan... horrible things. The newest cloth looks like dacron from a boatlength distance, but is much stiffer, thinner and lighter. The extreme radial cut sails seem to have fallen out of favour. Some sail with loose-footed mains, most have booms with a track/slot.

Personally, I'd prefer a rule that limited sailcloth choice. I'd like to see good old dacron as the standard, but as the rule is open and people can choose what they will, they do. The upside is that it encourages inovation and keeps the boats a modern alternative instead of becoming a museum class. I guess we can chalk it up to the truth that 'there are trade-offs everywhere'. Win something and lose something.

[lagspiller]

http://www87.pair.com/wbrf/www.woodenboatrescue.org/oselver%25202.jpg
A photo of a sprit rig without a boom. This is the same as my first experiences in sailing Oselvar. These worked quite well. If you want something simple, and are not planning on racing, this would be my choice.

[tapsnap]

Today, I think I finally finished the hull building portion of this project. With the exception of the metal breast hooks that I will probably have someone else weld together, the next task is to sand and apply a finish.
At this point I would like to thank everyone who helped me with their knowledge, advise, tips and encouragement throughout this build. I want to especially thank Lagspiller, without whose help, I'm sure, would have resulted in a hull that may not quite resemble the one you see in the pictures. It's amazing how someone can teach someone else 4000 miles away how to build a boat like this through an internet chat room . I have learned a tremendous amount about boat building during these two years and the sense of accomplishment is great. I feel I actually have the knowledge to build another one of these boats but without the mistakes this time. Perhaps I will teach others how. I am definitely hooked on this style of boat building.



http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering1.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering4.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering11.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering5.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering7.jpg

http://www.danieloates.com/faering/Daniel Oates faering8.jpg

[skaraborgcraft]

Wonderfull job Tap! We should also thank you for for 2 years of an interesting and educational thread. Cheers.

@Lagspiller. My snotter is fisherman style, self tightning loop around the mast with a small loop for the heel of the snotter, i dont adjust it at all after the sprit has been peaked. A cam cleat would allow some adjustment and probably would not interfere with the robands going up and down the mast, maybe i will try that, thanks.

[lagspiller]

You've made a glittering job of it, Tap. An astounding accomplishment. It will be interesting to hear your impression of the first row tour. I hope it amazes you.

[Songololo]

Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>

Here's many thumbs-up from a quiet lurker ...

Congrats on a great looking vessel!

I must say that this method of building still amazes me! Especially how the shape is defined and set during the construction of the hull. It seems to be challenging enough when one has a full set of molds to work around. This definitely takes things to a whole new level of skill ...

DoubleEnderFan

Lance

[lagspiller]

Skarab - I don't want to cause thread drift, so no photo upload.
Here is a shot of the snotter.
http://94.143.64.9/~avseil/2011/NM-11/slides/seiling%20NM%202011%20047.html


@Lagspiller. My snotter is fisherman style, self tightning loop around the mast with a small loop for the heel of the snotter, i dont adjust it at all after the sprit has been peaked. A cam cleat would allow some adjustment and probably would not interfere with the robands going up and down the mast, maybe i will try that, thanks.
These are the best photos I have found of the snotter setup on the club website. The end of the snotter is just about even with my head and starts about an armlength above. We use a jam cleat mounted on the mast in this boat, but some have a cam cleat on block itself.
http://94.143.64.9/~avseil/2011/NM-11/slides/seiling%20NM%202011%20035.JPG

[skaraborgcraft]

Cheers Lagspiller.

[tapsnap]

I got the opportunity to weigh this boat yesterday. Much lighter than I thought. 210lbs with floors and thwarts in place. Not much progress to report - still sanding the planking and frames. I'm very busy with work and don't have much time to work on the boat. After June I should have some free time again. Some time during this summer I want to launch her.

[auscruisertom]

[QUOTE=tapsnap;3789341]I got the opportunity to weigh this boat yesterday. Much lighter than I thought. 210lbs with floors and thwarts in place. Not much progress to report - still sanding the planking and frames. I'm very busy with work and don't have much time to work on the boat. After June I should have some free time again. Some time during this summer I want to launch her.[/QUOT

Great job and amazing weight, especially considering my hi tech 16 foot skiff built with foam carbon and fiber weights in at about 180 lbs. Needless its rather challenging to set up and sail, next time I go swimming I know which boat I would rather be sailing in love your thread. Cheers Tom

[lagspiller]

Haven't weighed ours, but they are something similar to yours. Probably not many designs in solid wood where two men can fairly easily carry a 20ft boat.

Our second boat is out of the shop, oiled, varnished, antifouled and ready for water. We are talking about gathering all 10 boats and rowing them in a procession to the 'old town' of Bekkjarvik as a summer kick-off.

[Peerie Maa]

Haven't weighed ours, but they are something similar to yours. Probably not many designs in solid wood where two men can fairly easily carry a 20ft boat.

Our second boat is out of the shop, oiled, varnished, antifouled and ready for water. We are talking about gathering all 10 boats and rowing them in a procession to the 'old town' of Bekkjarvik as a summer kick-off.

Make sure that you have a good camera man in a chase boat, or there will be a rerun of Stamford Bridge. ;)

[tapsnap]

Even though the cedar planking is really light, I think I overbuilt the framing with white oak and black locust. I expected it to end up around 250 to 300lbs. The floors and thwarts are heavier than I thought though. Without those, the hull weighs 150lbs. Still, adding a sailing rig is going to probably bring it to just over 300lbs. I'm curious to see how she sails. The garboards come out of the keel at a shallower angle, which will make her sit higher in the water than Lagspiller's boat. I look forward to seeing some photos too Lagspiller

[lagspiller]

From 210 to over 300 because of the sail rig? That sounds beefy....

[davebrown]

Great job! A real challenge, that hull.