Thoughts on my next (last) boat.

[shamus]

One of these days I’ll retire, and when I do, there are quite a few things I wish to do in our present boat. I imagine they will occupy a couple or three years- a series of two or three week cruises, with my good wife, in home waters, you might say. Then, unless, that turned out so well that we continued to do it all over again, I’ll probably have that out of my system. There’s also the matter of cost- even with a couple of partners, and a membership of a fine working class yacht club with the right ideas on keeping costs down, a 36 foot 1961 yacht takes a little bit of keeping. But I doubt I would be quite ready to part with sailing altogether.

I know a certain bay, discovered and named by Matthew Finders of glorious fame, well stocked with fish and extensive enough to provide a diversity of options for day cruises. In fact I own a mooring in an inlet in one corner of this bay- and my mind has been turning on what might be a suitable boat to hang on this mooring. So far, the criteria which have formed themselves are these:

(1)Twenty feet long or just a bit more
(2)Carvel construction, ballasted, longish keel, because I don’t want to be holding it upright
(3)Open, with foredeck and narrow side decks so that I can stand at the side fishing with my upper leg against a coaming

Those criteria are pretty well non negotiable.
Things that are negotiable are:

(1)Rig- I barely care, between gaff and Marconi, but one of those
(2)Engine- on balance probably yes

Paul Gartside has a little boat, design #163

http://www.gartsideboats.com/catsail2.php#cutter19

which looks about right, but I wouldn’t mind something drawn out a little more with a counter stern, possibly yawl rigged , and with an inboard rudderstock and tiller. Which would probably lead to a rather different bow.

Does anyone have any candidates? All comments appreciated.

[PeterSibley]

Too small ,but Greenshank seems to be a little Shamuslike , and I know where to get an absolutely new set of sails .:)

[shamus]

I've long admired Greenshank, and if it was just the sailing, I'd probably be very tempted, but the stand up fishing and hauling a pot is pretty important, I've decided.

[PeterSibley]

On second thoughts 163 if probably a better boat for your area ,more able and very ,very pretty !

[Hwyl]

What don't you like about your presnt boat?

Gartside was clearly influenced by the Falmouth Quay Punts and the most famous one.
http://www.nmmc.co.uk/images/uploaded/boats/Curlew_Antar_350.jpg

[shamus]

#163 is pretty (especially to cutter fanciers!), but I notice she's almost half as wide as she is long. I have no experience in that style of vessel, and I wonder if her pointing ability might disappoint?

[shamus]

What don't you like about your presnt boat?

Nothing! But this is about a different phase in life, after doing what I envisage in the present boat.

[PeterSibley]

#163 is pretty (especially to cutter fanciers!), but I notice she's almost half as wide as she is long. I have no experience in that style of vessel, and I wonder if her pointing ability might disappoint?

If you want to haul pots that might be quite an advantage ,you will find a smaller boat quite a compromise but with your cruising grounds probably acceptable .

[Paul Pless]

How big is this bay?

Would an American Style catboat work for you? They offer lots of (initial) stability and plenty of comfortable standing and sitting and sprawling room for fishing and hauling traps, plus the mast and much of the rig would be out of your way.

[JimD]

So something like this (Gartside) but with counterstern?

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/updates_2009/163-6.jpg

Not quite a counterstern but some rather snazzy rake to the transom is Atkin's Princess Betty. And the tumblehome aft is a nice touch, too:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/PrincessBetty-3.gif

Not nearly as beamy, either. 6'3" beam by 19'2" length. Inboard sail plan too, so no bowsprit to mess with

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/PrincessBetty-1.gif
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/PrincessBetty-2.gif

[Roger Long]

Does anyone have any candidates?

Sounds like a small Boston Hooker to me:

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106303

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/images/Hooker.gif

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/images/HookerHull.gif

[johngsandusky]

There are small Friendship sloops, 19' and 22'. They are handy, stable, lovely, and designed for fishing.

[adam96]

H20? (http://herreshoffdesigns.com/Files/H20.pdf)

Adam

[PeterSibley]

Any of the above Shamus ! and wouldn't I like to be down your way this week ...38C up here .

[shamus]

Some good ideas here, I'll look into each of them further, thanks fellas.
Paul, the bay is about 10 x 5 miles and is enclosed on 3 1/2 sides with another bay a little larger adjacent. Plenty of room for an old duffer.

I hadn't heard of a H20 before- looks a lovely boat.

[shamus]

Tony, the couta boats are a bit of a handful, aren't they?

[StevenBauer]

This 20' Colin Archer looks just about perfect to me:

http://www.skarp.no/Bildene/sagittaII/sjosetting/bilder/loftpaabil1.jpg


http://www.skarp.no/Bildene/sagittaII/20_03_06/DSCF0702.jpg


http://www.skarp.no/Bildene/sagittaII/20_03_06/Leik-red.jpg




Steven

[shamus]

That's pretty, Steven.

Tony, just checked the couta boat website, they make much of the ability of the original boats to just make way under a loose sheeted luffing main, fall off and come up again while flathead fishing. I generally fish hove to and drifting backwards. The ability to do one or other of these things is important.
What do we know about the requirements of hullshape for this purpose?
If I remember the Friendship sloop enthusiasts talk about all this too.

[RFNK]

Shamus, I thought of a couta boat too and I really like that Colin Archer boat that Steven showed but ... this is sacrilege! :eek: Your Tasman Seabird has to be one of the prettiest boats around, very practical and lovely to sail - how could you part with this?

Also, it is true that a larger boat requires more maintenance but I think you'll find that the difference between a 20+ and a 30+ is actually not all that great. You still have to do all the same things to the smaller boat and you need a bit more time and paint but you also bang your head a lot more often, and get cramp .....

Rick

[RFNK]

Yep, probably all true Tony but I just think we shouldn't give Shaun any encouragement (at all) to part with the Seabird! We should, instead, say salty things like `better to sail around to Bathurst Harbour than drive over to Macquarie Harbour (no fish in Macquarie Harbour anyway!)'. And, `I towed the Folkboat home for three weeks :rolleyes: once to repair the deck. Three years later she went back in the water ..... ' etc. I think Shaun should get a pontoon and a kayak. He can put the pontoon on the mooring and paddle out to it each day to fish. Once he gets sick of fish and sitting on the pontoon (2 weeks should well and truly do it), then he can go back to sailing the D'Entrecasteux Channel (i.e., blissful retirement) in the Seabird! Rick

[shamus]

Rick, it wouldn't happen for years, though I might start collecting timber. The Seabird would probably stay in the family somewhere, too, if I did part with my share. I might even still be able to use it occasionally in return for my vast knowledge of the bits that are in tight places, squeezed in behind the engine, which everyone else claims to know nothing about- The "Oh that's a job for the Uncle" places.:D

[PeterSibley]

You wouldn't need to go the trailer sailer route would you Shamus , with that lovely little Bellereve (sp?) Yacht Club close by ?
Carvel construction ? what timber would you be looking for say the Gartside cutter ? He design for very light timbers ,it's quite interesting doing a weight comparison ,US versus Oz timbers.

[RFNK]

Rick, it wouldn't happen for years, though I might start collecting timber. The Seabird would probably stay in the family somewhere, too, if I did part with my share. I might even still be able to use it occasionally in return for my vast knowledge of the bits that are in tight places, squeezed in behind the engine, which everyone else claims to know nothing about- The "Oh that's a job for the Uncle" places.:D


Ah, that all sounds much better. Two things though: Firstly, does Tony's Indo raft make your heart leap? Secondly, does it make you proud that your siblings have obviously bred intelligent and resourceful offspring? :D Rick

[2MeterTroll]

I am thinking multi hull for my last big boat. just need enough deck for a few students to build a kayak or three on, run a bit of cargo, and be able to take the kids and a couple adults. (believe me when i say kids 7 nieces and 3 nephews plus any that Erica and i end up with) We had 8 in the Tari Tari on her sea trials. so a nice easy to wander around on deck with plenty of sleeping and storage space is kinda necessary. not to mention the number of strays (people) Erica and i put up. Any ways thats the situation for Us.

[shamus]

I'm thinking celery top, Peter.
Possibly blue gum keel & deadwood- I guess you could take a tiny bit of lead out of the ballast to compensate for the extra weight- down low it probably wouldn't make much odds. And you're right about not needing to trailer, there's a nice little slip at Dunalley.

Rick:I must go and have a look there one day, I'm sure they have much to teach us. On your second point- yes that's about the only satisfactory face to put on it! :D

[rbgarr]

http://i48.tinypic.com/121pfdt.jpg

Parochial to Maine lobster trap haulers (of course! :D) but this is the 25' Crotch Island Pinky from Chapelle's 'American Small Sailing Craft'.

The 19' version would be a better size.

Or Tom Jackson's Noman's Land boat. http://www.sailing-new-england.com/small_reach_regatta_pg2.html

All could be built cavel.

[PeterSibley]

http://www.sailing-new-england.com/s...gatta_pg2.html (http://www.sailing-new-england.com/small_reach_regatta_pg2.html)

Is that the same design as the boat in Roger Taylor's" Good Boats" or " More Good Boats" ?
A favorite of mine for a long time .

[rbgarr]

If you mean the Peter Van Dine (sp?) pinky... yes, it's the one from Chapelle, but no, it's not Tom Jackson's afaik. His may be based on the Cleveland or Orca Noman's Land boat? http://www.by-the-sea.com/bakerboatworks/

[PeterSibley]

Thanks for that , good looking boats that would be pretty capable too .An interesting idea for a micro cruiser if a bit of offshore was envisaged .

[PeterSibley]

Shamus , there some interesting thoughts on the Dixon Kemp thread ,
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2419805#post2419805
BTW , your PM box is full.

[StevenBauer]

How about a nice little Fife? Either Hatasoo or Ayrshire Lass would probably work for you:


http://www.fiferegatta.com/photogallery/03%20The%20Cumbraes%20Race/slides/FifeSat2nd_pfm112.jpg


:D



Steven

[StevenBauer]

One more of the 1887 Ayrshire Lass 'cause I love the pic:

http://www.fiferegatta.com/photogallery/05%20Rhu%20Lay%20Day/slides/FifeMonSel_mt005.jpg

Steven

[paladin]

Peter Van Dine is just up the street from me if there's anything that someone would like me to ask the next time I wander by with some coffee.....

[shamus]

Thanks for pointing me to the Dixon Kemp thread Peter: someone commented about the lack of sheer in the profile drawing, but she looks great with the battens on the molds to my eye. Which raises a point. Paul's #163 cutter derives from the Itchen Ferry type, or what John Leather calls Solent & Poole Fishing boats. He has a profile of a boat called Wonder in his Gaff Rig book, and she shows much less sheer than #163; very British. You see similar shapes here. I like it. Wonder was built in the mid 19th century and is still going. Maybe some of the UK folk know her.
This thread has thrown up lots of good ideas to chew on.
Fixed my PM box, BTW.

[PeterSibley]

Yes ,the Dixon Kemp boat has a certain attraction ,for me a fishing boat should have something of the rustic about it ...there's a place for high finish but a fishing boat is not it .

[Sailor]

Is that Content?


What don't you like about your presnt boat?

Gartside was clearly influenced by the Falmouth Quay Punts and the most famous one.
http://www.nmmc.co.uk/images/uploaded/boats/Curlew_Antar_350.jpg

[Paul Pless]

Is that Content?That's the Carr's Curlew.